So McGuinty wants to push Gun Control.

[Guest Derek L]

well law abiding citizens are the ones who go off on shooting rampages killing innocent bystanders not criminals...the latest toronto shooting was a case of innocents being caught in a crossfire but not being targeted...I was browsing the web looking at a number of infamous slaughters and couldn't help but notice they were committed by law-abiding legal gun owners not criminals...

want to end the toronto gang shootings, legalize/control drugs and much of the source of the gang conflicts disappears...to end mass slaughters by deranged "law abiding" owners, restrict the type of gun permitted ban semi-auto weapons and reduce ammo capacity...get really really nasty with illegal ownership and weapon smugglers...

And how are you going to do that?

[wyly]

And how are you going to do that?

duh...like it's been done in the past, tell people to modify them or turn them in, it may come as a surprise to you but it works...

[Guest Derek L]

duh...like it's been done in the past, tell people to modify them or turn them in, it may come as a surprise to you but it works...

Why don’t you tell those committing the crimes to turn their guns in first?

We'll be fighting in the streets

With our children at our feet

And the morals that they worship will be gone

And the men who spurred us on

Sit in judgment of all wrong

They decide and the shotgun sings the song

[blueblood]

i agree. legalize ALL drugs and watch crime decrease rapidly. it's the drugs that cause crime. sometimes i think me and you wyly are the only ones here with common sense.

How about we throw out the criminal code while were at it and crime will disappear because there's nothing to be able to send people to jail with and the criminal court wont need to exist.

Here's a better idea for solving crime, how about people who want to commit criminal code infractions and cdsa infractions take their ass hats off and knock off their entitled attitude. If we legalized all drugs, we as a society would be like the downtown east side of Vancouver and a lot poorer because everyone is sky high all the time.

[cybercoma]

Why don’t you tell those committing the crimes to turn their guns in first?

Those that commit the crimes are required to turn their guns in and are prohibited from owning or possessing them for the rest of their lives. Now back to the original point that you missed, how to prevent law-abiding gun owners from being able to cause the amount of damage that happened in Colorado, Virginia Tech, or Columbine. Do exactly what wyly said and take away law-abiding citizens access to firearms that kill that efficiently. There's absolutely no reason to own them other than thinking guns are cool. Well your want for cool guns is surpassed by the need to protect the public from otherwise law-abiding citizens going on rampages.

[madmax]

How about we throw out the criminal code while were at it and crime will disappear because there's nothing to be able to send people to jail with and the criminal court wont need to exist.

Here's a better idea for solving crime, how about people who want to commit criminal code infractions and cdsa infractions take their ass hats off and knock off their entitled attitude. If we legalized all drugs, we as a society would be like the downtown east side of Vancouver and a lot poorer because everyone is sky high all the time.

Sounds like the Prohibitionist Argument....

Of course smuggling is the bane of all governments. Smuggling is the freemarket at work based on supply and demand vs the law.

Lots of criminals during the prohibition of liquor and beer. Lots of smuggling. Lots of guns.

I personally think WB has stated all the social aspects of illegal drugs and guns, but the solution is more difficult.

Interesting that you put more concern on drugs then on the guns.

Some put the weight on both and others on the guns alone.

What I would like to see is the offender (s) involved in that shooting have a lifetime in prison.

[blueblood]

Sounds like the Prohibitionist Argument....

Of course smuggling is the bane of all governments. Smuggling is the freemarket at work based on supply and demand vs the law.

Lots of criminals during the prohibition of liquor and beer. Lots of smuggling. Lots of guns.

I personally think WB has stated all the social aspects of illegal drugs and guns, but the solution is more difficult.

Interesting that you put more concern on drugs then on the guns.

Some put the weight on both and others on the guns alone.

What I would like to see is the offender (s) involved in that shooting have a lifetime in prison.

No it's just common sense. I put the most concern on people who have an entitled attitude and think the rules don't apply to them. Last I checked a gun doesn't alter the chemical balance inside one's head, thus influencing their decisions and causing health issues.

[Guest Derek L]

Those that commit the crimes are required to turn their guns in and are prohibited from owning or possessing them for the rest of their lives. Now back to the original point that you missed, how to prevent law-abiding gun owners from being able to cause the amount of damage that happened in Colorado, Virginia Tech, or Columbine. Do exactly what wyly said and take away law-abiding citizens access to firearms that kill that efficiently. There's absolutely no reason to own them other than thinking guns are cool. Well your want for cool guns is surpassed by the need to protect the public from otherwise law-abiding citizens going on rampages.

And what guns are those? And how are you going to "take them away"?

[bush_cheney2004]

And what guns are those? And how are you going to "take them away"?

Good question...Canadians invoking the American experience usually invites much derision and protest...how ironic.

[Guest Derek L]

Good question...Canadians invoking the American experience usually invites much derision and protest...how ironic.

What’s ironic, talk of “gun control” by a politician is the greatest catalyst for gun and ammo sales………I’ve said this before, the RCMP figured back in the 70s there were anywhere from 16-21 million private guns in Canada……..At the peak of the former Long Gun Registry there were only between 7-8 million firearms (Including Restricted, Prohibited and Government owned) firearms registered in Canada…………If a second registry was to be brought into place, combined with further restrictions or bans, the Government would be lucky to get a quarter of the past LGR compliance levels………….Even if a “copy was kept of the list”, in the last few months alone, the movement of firearms has made it redundant.

[Wiggum]

People killed in Toronto with legal, registered hanguns = 1(Brass Rail, 2008)

People killed by Ontario Attorney Generals = 1 (AG Michael Bryant, 2009).

Ban Ontario Attorney Generals.

[gunrutz]

And what guns are those? And how are you going to "take them away"?

Yea, see this is the part of the argument that is inevitably reached when discussing firearms with people who don't know much about firearms. A shotgun could have done more damage in these recent shootings than either a handgun or assault rifle. Anyway, unless you live in a few of the more violent suburbs of Toronto or a few other cities you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than shot. We are very fortunate that most of these people don't know what they are doing. Then again if they did they could build a bomb out of household materials and kill more people, not doubt we would have to ban nails or lengths of pipe if that happened.

[wyly]

And what guns are those? And how are you going to "take them away"?

either you're being deliberately disingenuous or you must be really dumb, I don't think you're dumb which leaves the former so then you're playing the forum troll...

[Guest Derek L]

either you're being deliberately disingenuous or you must be really dumb, I don't think you're dumb which leaves the former so then you're playing the forum troll...

Neither……..How is it “trolling” to ask which guns you’ll ban? Also, without the LGR, how are you going to ensure compliance? I’m not trolling, and I’m sorry if you feel that, but it’s not my vague, poorly thought out suggestion.

[Boges]

I can't defend why a person would need a hand gun. People collect them, people go target shooting. Those might not be good reasons but they aren't the problems regarding shootings like the ones that have been happening in Toronto lately.

If you want to have a debate about banning handguns fine. But to be reactionary about it after a shooting where the guns used were, no doubt, illegal is political pandering and not addressing the real problems in any way, shape or form.

You're going after people that haven't shot anyone because going after gangbangers with illegal firearms is politically incorrect. We've seen that with the fallout from the mayors comments as to wanting to throw these people out of his city.

You think banning hand guns would stop shootings? We've been trying to ban drugs for years and that hasn't worked. People are importing the drugs the same way they've been importing guns. Smuggling across the border, using native reserves as a cover.

We know from the Caledonia situation that this Premier has no interest clamping down on the rights of natives.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Boges

[Boges]

want to end the toronto gang shootings, legalize/control drugs and much of the source of the gang conflicts disappears...to end mass slaughters by deranged "law abiding" owners, restrict the type of gun permitted ban semi-auto weapons and reduce ammo capacity...get really really nasty with illegal ownership and weapon smugglers...

Well I think you're looking through this issue with some rose-coloured glasses. So we legalize meth, cocaine, heroine and suddenly these people will stop selling drugs and go community college or go and get trained in something more useful to society? It may happen but I'm rather skeptical that people will allow the government to profit off the selling of illicit drugs instead of them.

We've seen with the illegal trade of tobacco that legalizing something doesn't stop a black market for the products involved.

I also think a majority of society would have problems with government-sanctioned cocaine sales. But that's just me. I don't think even countries that have legalized weed have gone that far.

Also, I don't recall a scourge of gun crime in Canada caused by "legal gun owners" there are examples but the vast majority of gun crime we see, especially in large cities like Toronto, are caused by people carrying illegal guns.

Now that's not the case in the United States. Carrying handgun is enshrined in their constitution and even the Great Barack Obama is scared of taking on the gun lobby.

You can't honestly compare the shooting at Danzig in Toronto and the Dark Knight shooting, there were completely different.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Boges

[Topaz]

In Canada, my view is if all level of governments don't work together to stop illegal guns and drugs coming in this country, we'll never get on top if it. The Feds need to put out more inspectors and those inspectors need to do a better jobs of finding those guns and drugs. Both, the feds and the provinces needs to do a better jobs of finding out WHO is bring them in. Any person NOT born in this country, who has an illegal hand gun, needs to have a one-way ticket out of the country and lastly, WE, the people needs to come down harder on the politicians that make the laws.

[Boges]

I'd much prefer the MIA thread originator to answer the question. Surely he didn't create this thread just to have another go at McGuinty... surely MLW member, 'Boges' actually has handgun(s) to support his raised concern for his stated, 'law abiding gun owners'... notwithstanding the actual 'tempered... measured' McGuinty quote response I offered. So what does he use his handgun(s) for? Presumably the imagined loss of some use(s) has the, presumably, 'law abiding handgun owning' thread originator so incensed...

I don't own a gun.

What I find offensive about McGuinty is there is a grocery list of things him and his government are doing to make this province a worse place to live and he's been pretty tight-lipped about everything. But this happens and he's Mr. Gun Control. He wants to Feds to ban hand guns.

Where is his leadership on:

- The Mississauga Powerplant and the $190 million it'll cost Ontarios

- The ORNGE issue and how much did the province know,

- The fact the Green Energy plan is turning into a boondoggle and will end up hurting Ontarians, not helping us

- The fact that in a month teachers unions are going to take a Strike vote, and only one board has cut a deal.

- The fact the OMA is taking them to court,

- The fact 10's of thousands of people stand to lose their jobs because of the greed and shortsightedness of the OLG.

- Or the fact that this province is mired in a $15 billion deficit because this government spent money like they'd won the lottery and now that times are bit leaner they want to play tough guy.

With all that, Gun control, an issue McGuinty has no control over is what he wants to concern himself with.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Boges

[Topaz]

Now Ford is going to ask the province to give him 5-10 Mil to put more police in the Toronto area. How about doing it a little less expensive and hire security guards that are able to carry guns. Isn't it about man power walking the areas needed and then start doing something about the gangs that have guns right now and warning them its time to turn in their guns before the search warrrants are issue to go through the areas looking for guns or is this considered against one's liberty?? http://ca.news.yahoo.com/ford-wants-5-10m-ont-more-cops-says-165930660.html

[Boges]

I believe the type of officers he wants to hire are TAVIS officers. (The Toronto Anti-Violence Intervention Strategy)

So they're specifically trained in dealing with Gun/Gang related crimes. He's not asking for more officers to write speeding tickets.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Now Ford is going to ask the province to give him 5-10 Mil to put more police in the Toronto area. How about doing it a little less expensive and hire security guards that are able to carry guns. Isn't it about man power walking the areas needed and then start doing something about the gangs that have guns right now and warning them its time to turn in their guns before the search warrrants are issue to go through the areas looking for guns or is this considered against one's liberty?? http://ca.news.yahoo.com/ford-wants-5-10m-ont-more-cops-says-165930660.html

Toronto already has ridiculously low property taxes. (25% lower or more in many cases) Raise the taxes and make them pay for it themselves.

If they want to live there, they should pay. It really is that simple.

Toronto already siphons off enough of the province's revenue for a variety of reasons.

Edited July 23, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[guyser]

Toronto already siphons off enough of the province's revenue for a variety of reasons.

Uh...wanna do some research?

Ontario garners far more from TO than in reverse.

How about a $4B shortfall from paid vs recieved?

[cybercoma]

either you're being deliberately disingenuous or you must be really dumb, I don't think you're dumb which leaves the former so then you're playing the forum troll...

Which is why we don't dignify these things with responses.

[wyly]

Which is why we don't dignify these things with responses.

derek is no dummy he already knows the answer to his questions so he's taking a stubborn ideologue stance regardless if it's wrong...he reminds me of father who would argue the sky wasn't blue just to be unreasonable...

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Uh...wanna do some research?

Ontario garners far more from TO than in reverse.

How about a $4B shortfall from paid vs recieved?

Odd... they still have among the lowest (if not the lowest) property taxes in the province. (which comes from municipal funding)

If they brought them up to par they'd be able to afford these police and then some!

Edited July 24, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist