13,000 Pages Of New Rules & Regulations For Obamacare

[Shady]

Great new for Americans, and especially the economy!

With the Supreme Court giving President Obama's new health care law a green light, federal and state officials are turning to implementation of the law -- a lengthy and massive undertaking still in its early stages, but already costing money and expanding the government.

The Health and Human Services Department "was given a billion dollars implementation money," Republican Rep. Denny Rehberg of Montana said. "That money is gone already on additional bureaucrats and IT programs, computerization for the implementation."

...

"There's already 13,000 pages of regulations, and they're not even done yet,"

Not to mention 180 brand new boards, commissions and bureaus. All administered by the IRS. Sounds like some great medicine.

[socialist]

Great new for Americans, and especially the economy!

Not to mention 180 brand new boards, commissions and bureaus. All administered by the IRS. Sounds like some great medicine.

typical shadyesqu crap trying to make something out of nothing. your post is weak and lazy.

[Signals.Cpl]

weak and lazy.

Did someone teach you two new words today?

[bush_cheney2004]

....Not to mention 180 brand new boards, commissions and bureaus. All administered by the IRS. Sounds like some great medicine.

Don't forget the new "wait time" web sites for each state!

[Shady]

typical shadyesqu crap trying to make something out of nothing. your post is weak and lazy.

How is this something out of nothing?

[Canuckistani]

Absolutely right. They should have just expanded medicare to everyone. Already the private system has so much paperwork that some doctors have moved to Canada just for that reason - they spend more time doing all the paperwork for all the insurance providers that they don't have much time to treat patients. Administrative costs in the US are far higher than in Canada.

Or, give everybody in the US the military medical (socialized) system. But then, as Bill Kristol said, ordinary Americans don't deserve this system.

[bush_cheney2004]

Already the private system has so much paperwork that some doctors have moved to Canada just for that reason -

Yet far more doctors and other health care professionals have moved to the U.S. from Canada.

Or, give everybody in the US the military medical (socialized) system. But then, as Bill Kristol said, ordinary Americans don't deserve this system.

The military "system" is called TRICARE and it uses administrative contracts won by the same health insurance companies.

[Canuckistani]

For years, an exodus of doctors to the United States helped fuel Canada's growing shortage of medical staff, and gave emotional ammunition to opponents of Canadian-style health-care reform in the States.

But medical recruiters and migration statistics suggest a surprising new trend has emerged over the past few years: a net movement of physicians from the United States to Canada.

The reasons they are coming are equally unexpected: pay that is reportedly much better in some specialties; more freedom in their practices; and uncertainty about the impact of health reform in the United States.

"Canada is the number one spot in the world for doctors to come and work, live and play," said John Philpott, CEO of CanAM Physician Recruiting in Halifax. "Talking to physicians in the United States, they're shocked how much more money they can make in Canada."

The flip side of the equation seems to be true as well, with fewer Canadian doctors answering the call to practice in the States, once seen as a Mecca of better remuneration and more comfortable work environments.

"I have calls from American companies on a regular basis asking me to find them Canadian doctors, and I have to say 'that ship has sailed,' " said Susan Craig of Toronto-based Susan Craig Associates, which recruits doctors for both American and Canadian employers.

"We used to place an ad and we'd be flooded with doctors. That's not the case now."

Statistics released annually by the Canadian Institute for Health Information first suggested five years ago that the number of doctors returning to Canada after departing the country for other places was greater than the number leaving, ending a net out-migration that had lasted for more than a decade.

The impression remained, however, that Canadian doctors were still flocking to the United States. During the recent debate over the U.S. health-care reform proposals, opponents frequently cited Canada's system as an example to be avoided, and pointed to the supposed exodus of doctors southward as evidence that it was broken.

More detailed CIHI statistics reveal a different picture, however. The number of doctors returning to Canada from the U.S. specifically after working here previously has exceeded those going in the opposite direction every year since 2004.

On top of that, the number of American-trained doctors who came here for the first time jumped to 52 in 2008 from a low of nine in 1995. Neither set of statistics includes doctors trained in other countries who were working in the U.S. and left for Canada recently.

HealthForce Ontario, the provincial agency that recruits doctors and other medical workers, has lured an increasing cadre of MDs from the U.S. since it launched three years ago. The number jumped to 87 last year from 10 in 2007, and has already reached 66 by this July.

Health Match BC, a similar agency, attracted 19 U.S. doctors in 2008, 20 in 2009 and expects to top 30 this year, said CEO John Mabbott.

No one suggests, though, the numbers match the flight south of Canadian physicians during the 1990s.

At that time, provincial governments, worried about escalating health costs, concluded there was a surplus of doctors. Medical school enrollments were slashed, pay caps instituted and physicians discouraged from working in "over-serviced" areas.

The result by 2006 was that 12,000 Canadian-trained doctors — more than 10% of the total — were working in the States, noted a 2007 paper in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.

The ensuing doctor shortage in Canada prompted legislators to approve higher fees, increase enrollment and take other measures to improve doctors' lot.

"The situation here has improved radically and physicians here are treated with much more respect and care than they were previously," said Ms. Craig.

Private and public-sector recruiters say they are luring American-born doctors, Canadians who had long ago moved to the States, and physicians from other countries who trained and got licensed in the U.S., only to decide to work in Canada.

Comparing physician incomes in the two countries is not easy, given the different ways doctors are paid in various jurisdictions. Undisputedly some surgical and other specialities are still much better compensated in the States.

Some recruiters, though, say family doctors, pediatricians, emergency physicians and psychiatrists can make more for similar work in Canada — as much as $50,000 to $100,000 more, according to Mr. Philpott. He said he relocated one doctor from Wisconsin to Newfoundland, doubling her income in the process.

Psychiatrists can end up "significantly ahead" in Canada, echoed Ms. Craig, noting "the whole money thing has changed." Mr. Mabbott said some physicians from the States tell him, also, that they make more in B.C.

Money is not the only draw, however.

Many U.S. physicians are also fed up with a system in which private insurance companies fund most medical care, meaning they must deal with as many as 40 different firms to get paid. One study suggested that U.S. physicians spend 140 hours and $60,000 a year dealing with insurers, said Lynn Bury, recruitment director for HealthForce Ontario.

Some also see the Canadian system as allowing them to practise more freely, unfettered by private hospitals, insurance companies and HMOs, said Ms. Bury.

Mr. Mabbott said he is worried about the impact of U.S. health-care reform, designed to provide health coverage to 40 million uninsured Americans, and potentially create a demand for thousands more physicians.

Other recruiters, though, say the reform plan Congress approved this year has so far left some doctors fretting about the future and viewing Canada as a welcome escape.

http://www.healthworkermigration.com/news/222-doctor-drain-turns-to-gain-physicians-move-north.html

[bush_cheney2004]

Far more Canadian physicians leave for the USA, from a country with 10% of the population:

Two-thirds of the 12 040 Canadian-educated physicians living in the United States in 2006 were practising in direct patient care, 1023 in rural areas. About 186, or 1 in 9, Canadian-educated physicians from each graduating class joined the US physician workforce providing direct patient care. Canadian-educated physicians are more likely than US-educated physicians to practise in rural areas.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1839794/

[Shady]

The worst part of Obamacare is the drag on the economy. Which will only get worse until Romney repeals it.

[BubberMiley]

Romney won't repeal it. One would have to be very, very naive to think he would.

[bush_cheney2004]

Romney won't repeal it. One would have to be very, very naive to think he would.

Presidents cannot repeal laws....see US Congress.

[Shady]

Romney won't repeal it. One would have to be very, very naive to think he would.

Repeal and replace. It's a must.

[Canuckistani]

Far more Canadian physicians leave for the USA, from a country with 10% of the population:

Two-thirds of the 12 040 Canadian-educated physicians living in the United States in 2006 were practising in direct patient care, 1023 in rural areas. About 186, or 1 in 9, Canadian-educated physicians from each graduating class joined the US physician workforce providing direct patient care. Canadian-educated physicians are more likely than US-educated physicians to practise in rural areas.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1839794/

More detailed CIHI statistics reveal a different picture, however. The number of doctors returning to Canada from the U.S. specifically after working here previously has exceeded those going in the opposite direction every year since 2004.

[Michael Hardner]

Which will only get worse until Romney repeals it.

From what I have read, there are a few reasons that that won't happen. What everyone can hope, though, is that IF the Massachusetts Miracle wins, he will live up to the white-man-wizard image he's been portrayed as having, and deliver PUBLIC healthcare (as he already did) but in a more efficient way, at less cost and with more coverage.

He's a kind of Christian, so one would hope he would do this to help the downtrodden.

[bush_cheney2004]

...

Nevertheless, more Canadian health care professionals have moved to the the U.S. and continue to practice there than from the U.S. going to Canada. Ditto for Canadian patients, up to and including prime ministers and MP's.

This from a nation with 10% of the U.S. population.

Edited July 6, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[Canuckistani]

We're Number Two: Canada Has as Good or Better Health Care than the U.S.

Despite spending half what the U.S. does on health care, Canada doesn't appear to be any worse at looking after the health of its citizens

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=canada-has-as-good-or-better-healthcare-than-united-states

[bush_cheney2004]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=canada-has-as-good-or-better-healthcare-than-united-states

...more Canadian patients still go to the USA....sometimes with the blessing of provinces that lack the capacity to provide timely care. Hence so called 'wait time' web sites for Canada.

[Canuckistani]

Lots of Canadians going to the US for major surgeries they pay for themselves, are they? You can hang on to your biases, but as the study I quoted shows, we get the same outcome for almost half the cost, with everybody covered, nobody going bankrupt because of medical expenses, nobody denied care or insurance. Sounds like the better system to me for the average person.

[Guest American Woman]

Already the private system has so much paperwork that some doctors have moved to Canada just for that reason -

Do you have any sources to back that up?

[Shady]

From what I have read, there are a few reasons that that won't happen. What everyone can hope, though, is that IF the Massachusetts Miracle wins, he will live up to the white-man-wizard image he's been portrayed as having, and deliver PUBLIC healthcare (as he already did) but in a more efficient way, at less cost and with more coverage.

He's a kind of Christian, so one would hope he would do this to help the downtrodden.

Medicaid is a program specifically designed to help the downtrodden. So is CHIP.

[Guest American Woman]

...nobody going bankrupt because of medical expenses....

Yet medical problems are one of the three leading causes of bankruptcy in Canada.

[Canuckistani]

Do you have any sources to back that up?

Look back a few posts, I posted a link.

[Canuckistani]

Yet medical problems are one of the three leading causes of bankruptcy in Canada.

People may go bankrupt because they're too sick to work. Nobody is bankrupted because of medical expenses.

[kraychik]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=canada-has-as-good-or-better-healthcare-than-united-states

Wow. An arbitrarily-defined list with no context or explanation of the methodology. You really are a valuable contributor to this forum's quality of discourse. After reading the article linked, which contains very little substantive information, it appears that the conclusion from the headline of the article is drawn from one metric - the rate at which patients in either system died. Assuming the methodology of the study was on-point (and that's a big assumption), that's a pretty narrow metric. Even the article you posted, which I don't think you actually read, has a researcher question the validity of comparing the overall quality of these two healthcare systems based on this single metric. I'm probably wasting my time replying to you, as forum participants that just do hit-and-run posts like yours tend not to actually have any capability or intent to have a serious or honest discussion.