More Cuts to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans on the way

[Wilber]

I've been here long enough to know how to answer a question on this forum. We don't know the exact rationale behind the decision to move the boat. To assume that CCG didn't really think it through is pretty naive.

He has asked you who will be providing immediate response for the busiest harbour in the country and one of the busiest pleasure boating areas. Why don't you answer it.

[Anti-Am]

I've been here long enough to know how to answer a question on this forum. We don't know the exact rationale behind the decision to move the boat. To assume that CCG didn't really think it through is pretty naive.

My question was not about moving the boat. It was "Can you explain how laying off trained professionals and hiring students to perform rescues out at sea is going to do the least

damage?"

Apparently you do not know how to answer a question.

[Wilber]

Like who? They probably consulted the actual usage statistics and realized that consolidation would give them a better ability to respond to a wider area, even if they can't get to the area in Vancouver as fast on water.

So stakeholders don't matter in your government. Only Ottawa Mandarins.

[Smallc]

He has asked you who will be providing immediate response for the busiest harbour in the country and one of the busiest pleasure boating areas. Why don't you answer it.

But does it have the largest call volume? That's the real question. Without all they information, I can't answer.

My question was not about moving the boat. It was "Can you explain how laying off trained professionals and hiring students to perform rescues out at sea is going to do the least

damage?"

Apparently you do not know how to answer a question.

It's not answerable. There will still be trained professionals in the air and on the water, just not at that station.

So stakeholders don't matter in your government. Only Ottawa Mandarins.

Only people with actual info. I don't really care how people feel.

[Wilber]

So people on the water including ex Coast Guard officers have no clue and need not be asked. Only Ottawa knows.

This is the same attitude that has landed the provincial liberals in deep doo doo.

[Smallc]

So people on the water including ex Coast Guard officers have no clue and need not be asked. Only Ottawa knows.

Who says that only Ottawa made the decision? There are people further down the chain, at regional headquarters that would obviously be involved. As I said, knowledge is important. Without it, we're just talking in circles.

[waldo]

Ummm..that's not what it says. There have been no real cuts to SAR, though there was one consolidation in Vancouver.

3 British Columbia Coast Guard communication centers in Vancouver, Comox and Tofino to be closed... you don't consider the comm centers to be an integral part of SAR?

[Wilber]

Who says that only Ottawa made the decision? There are people further down the chain, at regional headquarters that would obviously be involved. As I said, knowledge is important. Without it, we're just talking in circles.

It is clear that no one outside of the government was consulted about this change or informed of the possibility. It came as a surprise to the personnel at the base and if it was a surprise at Kits it was also a surprise at Sea Island. I assume they do talk to each other. So big brother in Ottawa's decisions, even on regional issues are always right and should never be questioned or challenged. How Orwellian. How disappointing. I wouldn't have thought that of you.

This government can spend millions sending 30 more rubber stamps to Ottawa but can't spend $900K to maintain a Coast Guard station in the country's biggest port. It's like saying we should cut police and fire fighters so we can hire more city councilors. At least city councilors aren't bound by party discipline and gagged by a party leader.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Wilber

[waldo]

Who says that only Ottawa made the decision? There are people further down the chain, at regional headquarters that would obviously be involved. As I said, knowledge is important. Without it, we're just talking in circles.

who says? Uhhh... they says!

Ottawa only talked to itself on Coast Guard base closure

Federal officials now admit they did not consult local authorities – only other federal government arms such as the military – before announcing their decision to close Vancouver's Coast Guard base at Kitsilano.

Jody Thomson, the Canadian Coast Guard's Deputy Commissioner of Operations, said consultations are now beginning with the province, municipalities and other stakeholders not previously notified.

Conservative MP James Moore had previously said there was broad consultation in advance, a claim contradicted by Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson.

[Smallc]

3 British Columbia Coast Guard communication centers in Vancouver, Comox and Tofino to be closed... you don't consider the comm centers to be an integral part of SAR?

No, I don't actually....because they're not.

[Smallc]

who says? Uhhh... they says!

Next time, perhaps you could actually read what I write before you give one of your usual non opinions.

[waldo]

3 British Columbia Coast Guard communication centers in Vancouver, Comox and Tofino to be closed... you don't consider the comm centers to be an integral part of SAR?

No, I don't actually....because they're not.

I see... no problem... you don't recognize that the Coast Guard comm centers, the local line of communication linking those in distress to search & rescue services... relaying distress messages to search & rescue services... is an integral part of the search & rescue service process. No problem.

[waldo]

Who says that only Ottawa made the decision? There are people further down the chain, at regional headquarters that would obviously be involved. As I said, knowledge is important. Without it, we're just talking in circles.

who says? Uhhh... they says!

Ottawa only talked to itself on Coast Guard base closure

Next time, perhaps you could actually read what I write before you give one of your usual non opinions.

interesting... MLW member, 'Wilber' provided you the same consultation slanted response... I simply added in a supporting link. Are you really quibbling over, and taking shelter within, the "consultation versus decision" word-play? Clearly, you intended to instill a sense of, "others being involved"... others being consulted. MLW member, 'Wilber' and I simply (successfully) challenged your baseless claim.

[CPCFTW]

I have no clue what you are talking about. If it comes down to you think we should cut everything the government does and pay no taxes then there is no common ground to be found with you.

Jump to conclusions much?

I think that taxes should be minimized to provide essential services. I think we're getting a lot more than essential services at this time, and the services that we are getting are not exactly delivered cost-effectively.

ie. cuts until budget balanced, then keep lowering taxes.

Edited June 10, 2012 by CPCFTW

[punked]

Jump to conclusions much?

I think that taxes should be minimized to provide essential services. I think we're getting a lot more than essential services at this time, and the services that we are getting are not exactly delivered cost-effectively.

ie. cuts until budget balanced, then keep lowering taxes.

And where is the breaking point?

[CPCFTW]

And where is the breaking point?

The breaking point is when we get to services that we can't (not don't want to) cut and when underqualified public service workers aren't getting gold-plated pensions and bankable sick days for working less than their private sector benefactors.

Other than moving to a DC pension plan, I'd start with getting rid of the PSAC and giving department executives bonuses for delivering services effectively while reducing costs. There is a culture of waste and laziness in the public sector that is fostered by PSAC. Heads will need to roll to eliminate that culture.

[punked]

The breaking point is when we get to services that we can't (not don't want to) cut and when underqualified public service workers aren't getting gold-plated pensions and bankable sick days for working less than their private sector benefactors.

Other than moving to a DC pension plan, I'd start with getting rid of the PSAC and giving department executives bonuses for delivering services effectively while reducing costs. There is a culture of waste and laziness in the public sector that is fostered by PSAC. Heads will need to roll to eliminate that culture.

Oh so the breaking point is when....talking point...talking point...talking point. No details just what I expected.

[westguy]

No, there have not been cuts to SAR services. The cost guard is also getting a giant infrastructure injection in terms of new vessels. You're wrong.

cynercoms just hates the Conservatives

[CPCFTW]

Oh so the breaking point is when....talking point...talking point...talking point. No details just what I expected.

Ask a vague answer and get a vague response. There is no line in the sand breaking point.

I offered some modifications to the current public service system which would make me believe services are more cost-effectively delivered. Then the next step is cutting unnecessary services, and there are a lot of them. I'm not about to go through every government service and analyze which ones are worth keeping for you.

Edited June 10, 2012 by CPCFTW

[Smallc]

I see... no problem... you don't recognize that the Coast Guard comm centers, the local line of communication linking those in distress to search & rescue services... relaying distress messages to search & rescue services... is an integral part of the search & rescue service process. No problem.

No, because distress calls will be routed to JRCC Victoria, as they always are.

interesting... MLW member, 'Wilber' provided you the same consultation slanted response

And I disagreed then too. If they consulted within the CCG and DND.

[waldo]

I see... no problem... you don't recognize that the Coast Guard comm centers, the local line of communication linking those in distress to search & rescue services... relaying distress messages to search & rescue services... is an integral part of the search & rescue service process. No problem.

No, because distress calls will be routed to JRCC Victoria, as they always are.

no - as I said, the existing Coast Guard comm centers, as the 'feeder outlets', are an integral part of the SAR process. Your reference to the JRCC suggests you're further discounting the role/need for the remaining Coast Guard comm centers... the ones Harper Conservatives aren't shuttering. Given your approach I expect it won't be long before the JRCC gets its feeds from... a call-center in Bangalore India, right?

interesting... MLW member, 'Wilber' provided you the same consultation slanted response... I simply added in a supporting link. Are you really quibbling over, and taking shelter within, the "consultation versus decision" word-play? Clearly, you intended to instill a sense of, "others being involved"... others being consulted. MLW member, 'Wilber' and I simply (successfully) challenged your baseless claim.

And I disagreed then too. If they consulted within the CCG and DND.

so, yes... you are quibbling over word-play. Clearly, you're emphasizing "the decision" players outside the bounds of any public consultation. Obviously, the emphasis is on affected public groups/locales; the raised concerns are that no Harper Conservatives consulted persons within the affected groups/locales. The Harper Conservative government and Coast Guard have admitted as much. If you want to take solace in touting your belief that all the decision players consulted amongst themselves... without consulting with persons within the groups/locales affected... you can have that, hey?

[eyeball]

so, yes... you are quibbling over word-play. Clearly, you're emphasizing "the decision" players outside the bounds of any public consultation. Obviously, the emphasis is on affected public groups/locales; the raised concerns are that no Harper Conservatives consulted persons within the affected groups/locales. The Harper Conservative government and Coast Guard have admitted as much. If you want to take solace in touting your belief that all the decision players consulted amongst themselves... without consulting with persons within the groups/locales affected... you can have that, hey?

What's the issue here the process or the decision?

If it's the decision, I'm an affected member of the public as I work on the ocean a lot. I wasn't consulted but if I was I'd have to say shutting down the communication centre where I live will have little if any affect on existing search and rescue capabilities. The technology of repeaters and radio/digital feeds and other things like GMDSS and GPS really does make some things redundant.

If the issue is the consultative process DFO likes to use, it's a little late to worry about that little fleet of ships because it sailed and sank a couple of decades ago. On our coast Ottawa used it for target practice.

[Guest Derek L]

I mean the people in Ottawa who don't consult anyone who has to live with the consequences of their decisions. There is no way Sea Island could come close to matching the response times for calls in English Bay or Vancouver harbour without using a helicopter. Neither as cost or operationally effective. In some weather conditions it is debatable whether they could respond at all.

This along with trying to bulldoze pipelines and tankers through the port will cost this government in the next election. Triple tanker traffic through the port and close its only Coast Guard station. Now there's a plan.

The Kitts beach station (and sole lifeboat) aren’t equipped to deal with any oil spills……As to students taking over “primary SAR”, though sounding bad in practice, the local lifeguards/rescue boats have been doing that for decades…….And no one is shutting down the VPD Marine Unit that’s based in the inlet……As to the response time from Sea Island, the inclusion of the newer Hovercraft will certainly help cover greater distances, well the Kitts beach lifeboat, based closer to the Airport will allow the CCG to respond to calls up the Fraser to Delta Port with the conventional boat, where as before, the speed of the Hovercraft up the river was always underutilized….

[Guest Derek L]

What's the issue here the process or the decision?

If it's the decision, I'm an affected member of the public as I work on the ocean a lot. I wasn't consulted but if I was I'd have to say shutting down the communication centre where I live will have little if any affect on existing search and rescue capabilities. The technology of repeaters and radio/digital feeds and other things like GMDSS and GPS really does make some things redundant.

If the issue is the consultative process DFO likes to use, it's a little late to worry about that little fleet of ships because it sailed and sank a couple of decades ago. On our coast Ottawa used it for target practice.

Beat me to it.

[waldo]

What's the issue here the process or the decision?

the real issue is inclusiveness; rather, the lack of it. We have a Harper Conservative Minister stating local consultation with VanCity was done... countered by Mayor Robertson. We have numerous accounts from concerned affected groups that they were not notified/consulted. Finally, we get an outright admission from the Harper Conservative government/Coast Guard, that no outside consultation was undertaken - none!