Boges Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) You fire a coach that's made the playoffs two years in a row? He may get fired because he's not one of Shapiro/Atkins guys. But not because he's been the best coach the Jays have had since Cito. Gibbons has said he's concerned with Liriano's Walk numbers. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. He's a player that was brought in to help extend Aaron Sanchez's season and now fans want him to start a one and done game? Fans have very short memories. Edited October 4, 2016 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Yes, of course you do. And Shapiro will as soon as the season ends unless they win the World Series. You will recall your own certainty at the beginning of this year that their finish last year was just the first step to a Series win? Instead, they backed into a playoff spot on the second last day of the season. The Jays have the players, except for the crap bullpen, but they don't have the leadership from management and from some key players to win a Series. And please don't mention Gaston. He is cut from the exact same mold as Gibbons: the only way to win a game is to passively wait for a three run homer. It worked well when Gaston had the superb players for a couple of years, but 'one size does not fit all'. You have to play to the situation, and neither of these guys can or will do it. Gibbons has been forced into it kicking and screaming lately. The Jays would be in a much better position if they had won as few as 5 or 6 of the many close and extra inning games they lost because of Gibbons failing to adapt. They also lost numerous games because Gibbons is terrified of offending a veteran pitcher by yanking them when they falter, instead he waits until the game is lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 They also lost numerous games because Gibbons is terrified of offending a veteran pitcher by yanking them when they falter, instead he waits until the game is lost. Who? Dickey? I believe Dickey has pitched once in September. I think Boston more won the AL East than the Jays lost it, sure they had a weak September, but winning 11 in a row sealed the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Gibbons was reluctant to pull anybody, any starter or veteran at any position the whole season when they floundered. How many times did we see the score get run up in the fifth inning as Gibbons wanted to leave the starter in to have a chance at a win. Answer: far too many. What sealed the deal for the Jays was themselves, going 11-16 for September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 How about that great coaching from Buck? No justification for not using your unhittable closer in extra innings. Classic win. Potentially better than the ALDS Game 5 last year. Bullpen was great. Stroman was great. I like the Jays pitching in the rematch to Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 What sealed the deal for the Jays was themselves, going 11-16 for September. Well they're par with Boston after last night. Gibbons made a lot of fans last night with the superb use of the bullpen and giving Zeke Carrera the start. Showalter may be the firing victim after letting Jimenez face Edwin last night. No defending that call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Well they're par with Boston after last night. Gibbons made a lot of fans last night with the superb use of the bullpen and giving Zeke Carrera the start. Showalter may be the firing victim after letting Jimenez face Edwin last night. No defending that call. Gibby deserves some credit. Stroman came through and he certainly did use the bullpen very well. I have to admit I was worried when I saw Cecil take the mound but he did his job and so did the rest of the BP staff. What was up with Jimenez? His fastball was only reaching 90 mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Classic win. Absolutely classic Jays all right: the 3 run homer...... But creds to the entire team, they hung in and their pitching was great from start to finish. I hope Osuna is OK. Grilli as the closer is he isn't OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Absolutely classic Jays all right: the 3 run homer...... But creds to the entire team, they hung in and their pitching was great from start to finish. I hope Osuna is OK. Grilli as the closer is he isn't OK? Could have won that game with a sac fly. I was really impressed with Biagini last night. I think you could get by with Grilli, Liriano and Biagini. Osuna says he's alright though. I'm curious OT, would you have had Bautista bunt in the 9th inning? That would appear to be the right call there right]? But can't ask Bats to do that though. Edited October 5, 2016 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Yes, why not, since it wins the game and is more likely to be successful for Jose than hitting his current .225 would.. Oh right, real men don't do that. I doubt real men even practice it on this team. As I said earlier, one of the finest moments this season was Brian McCann hitting a homer at his first at bat, and laying down a bunt into the shift his next. Now that is a team player! Shouldn't have to ask any player to execute a basic baseball skill, they should know how to do it from long practice, and know the game situation requires it. Same with situational hitting- the big sluggers have to shorten their swing and get the ball into play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Do you mean Biagini as closer? That might work. I'd rather have him than Grilli actually. Liriano is third choice from that group as closer- and first choice for long relief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 IF!!!! Osuna is injured, which there's no news that he is. We'll see closer by committee. It's nice to have 2 "competent" lefties in the pen this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 Did you see the great sign held up in the stands right after the game yesterday, while they were interviewing players live on the field?? The (Rogers Inc. operated) TV camera panned away pretty quickly.... Some guy was holding it: " Hey Rogers, I am switching to Bell unless you sign Edwin". I laughed out loud. I had stopped recording by then, wish I hadn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Yeah I saw it, online afterwards. Edwin certainly has played to something nearing $30 mil a year contract. He's even established himself as perfectly acceptable option at 1st base. Meanwhile, even though he's coming on at the tail end of the season, I'm not convinced Bautista is worth a Qualifying offer TBH. Edited October 5, 2016 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 They are both gone. And the Jays get..... absolutely nothing back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 There's audio of Edwin saying "This is why I want to come back here" unprompted during the celebrations last night. May mean nothing, may be very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 He will come back if they give him both term and megabucks. The Jays won't do both, and by refusing to sign him before the season both of those things went up, way up since EE has had just a great year.. Thanks Ed! Hope you enjoy life as #3 hitter in Boston. They'd better reinforce the Green Monster, he will be pounding baseballs right through it for the next 4 or 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 A comprehensive win yesterday. Pretty much a must-win this afternoon for Texas with Darvish on the mound. With Sanchez starting on Sunday the series could be very short if the Rangers bats don't show up today. I don't anticipate anything close to a 10 run output today, but this past week shows that this Jays team (at least in the past week) can handle close games. It's incredible how Marco Estrada can make hitters look foolish with his chang-up and 90 mph fastball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 Up 2-0 with Sanchez pitching next at home. I smell Sweep. Nerve racking end to that game. I hope Liriano doesn't have a concussion. Gibbons gets credit for his Bullpen management in the Wildcard game but it was awful this game. He took out Biagini early, didn't let Grilli face a batter in the 8th and when Liriano got taken out, all they had left was Osuna and 3 guys who are bullpen filler. (Tepera, Loup and Feldmen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 11, 2016 Report Share Posted October 11, 2016 The bullpen was in tougher in the last game against Texas!  Osuna was done, all the rest of the decent pitchers were done. I don't know who was up in the bullpen for The Jays, but I would take Tepara  out of that Trilogy of Misery.  Texas had yet to use their closer.....  Luckily, Texas(Odor ironically) imploded at the wrong time for the second year in a row.  Last year, it was the entire infield that collapsed with multiple errors prior to the batflip homer in 2015.  This year, a routine play flubbed and the game was over.  The Jays can really use the rest before the next series, it gives them time to line up their real strength, the starters. Carrera has been a great late season performer, he adds a sorely lacking element or two to the team.  Speed, bunter, base stealer, decent hitter, decent fielder.....  I'd love to see him at leadoff in the next series, then Travis, Donaldson,Encarnacion, Tulo, Martin, Bautista, Saunders,  Pillar in that order. Bautista and Saunders can platoon in RF/DH.  The Jays are peaking at the right time...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 12 hours ago, overthere said: The Jays can really use the rest before the next series, it gives them time to line up their real strength, the starters. Carrera has been a great late season performer, he adds a sorely lacking element or two to the team.  Speed, bunter, base stealer, decent hitter, decent fielder..... They could use some rest for sure but 4 days is a lot. It will help someone like Donaldson for his bad hip but may throw off other people, especially some batters, who are used to seeing live game pitches virtually every day for the last 6 months. We'll see I guess. Cleveland is in the same boat so that's good. I hope they pitch Sanchez on the road, he looked very nervous and uncomfortable last game he pitched at home. Settled down a bit at the end though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 (edited) Neither of those losses were as close as the score.  What a waste of two decent starts by our pitchers.  In the first one, once again they simply cannot advance runners because everybody is swinging for the fences, as always.  In the second, we had another Kansas City-style example of how to win games that matterwhen hits are at a premium: walk, steal a base, steal another base, win the game. We were weak and pathetic in every regard.  They have to win four out of five now.  Yeah sure. Edited October 15, 2016 by overthere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Look at the bright side...now they only have to win 4 out of 4. Looks like that court injunction mascot thing against Chief Wahoo didn't help much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Love to see a Cubs, Indians World Series. Between them, 176 years since a series win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) So they didn't get swept. Cleveland's weakest pitcher is up next. Losing in 6 isn't all that embarrassing but It's not exactly an improvement over last year but this team will look very different next season. Much more focus on good pitching and less on swing for the fence sluggers. I really don't see how Gibbons gets fired for this performance. This team looked dead and gone about a month ago. Shapiro has said in interviews that Gibbons' contract will be fulfilled. No reason to pay someone under contract, not to coach. Same thing happened with the Toronto Raptors. Masai Ujiri has never had a good reason to fire Dwayne Casey because he's improved the team every year he's been there. Even though he's not Ujiri's guy. Edited October 19, 2016 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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