Bullying The Teacher

[bleeding heart]

Not really, although that'll work too; but I'm referring to the "no teacher is going to tell my child what to eat!" mentality - as it's perfectly acceptable to tell them how to engage in sexual activity. For example: "It's none of a teacher's business what a child eats at lunch time. That's between him and his parents"...., but a child's sexual activity evidently shouldn't be left between them and their parents. There were a few responses explaining why what a child eats is/should be part of the school's/teachers' concerns, that nutrition affects their learning experience, and the response was always the same. Sorry if it was all too subtle for you.

Apology accepted.

[Guest American Woman]

Apology accepted.

Evidently that fruit basket is missing more than the banana.

[bleeding heart]

Nevertheless, because mothers deserve to be honoured on this day, I feel forced to be temporarily kind. Have a happy one!

Edited May 13, 2012 by bleeding heart

[dre]

Seems like the teacher here made a minor mistake but not even one that warranted a formal writeup. Principle should have just talked to her and made it clear that its ok for students to throw their lunch leftovers in the garbage if they want to.

After all thats what a billion other westerners do with their excess food.

[Signals.Cpl]

Seems like the teacher here made a minor mistake but not even one that warranted a formal writeup. Principle should have just talked to her and made it clear that its ok for students to throw their lunch leftovers in the garbage if they want to.

After all thats what a billion other westerners do with their excess food.

Maybe schools should have some responsibility to limit waste? Teach kids respect, honesty,responsibility amongst others...

[dre]

Maybe schools should have some responsibility to limit waste? Teach kids respect, honesty,responsibility amongst others...

Maybe youre right! Then you start a proper program and make sure students and parents and teachers all know how it works.

Im all for it, but thats not what happened here.

[Signals.Cpl]

Maybe youre right! Then you start a proper program and make sure students and parents and teachers all know how it works.

Im all for it, but thats not what happened here.

Would I be wrong if I tell some kids to cross the street at the proper place? Or should we wait until we get the parents on board? This wasn't mishandled in any way shape or form, this was a teacher simply trying to do what a teacher is supposed to do educate. What happens if a teacher tries to educate students on money management? Or proper fitness? I mean many Canadian parents are in no position to educate their kids on finances because they themselves have no idea how to behave with their money. This is a dangerous thing to teach a young kid, that if you lie you will always hurt the other person, because lets face it the teachers reputation was hurt. Now lets look at the future of this child, if I was his teacher, I would give him all A's and not expect anything from him so that in the long run I will screw him up in order to avoid getting punished for something I didn't do.Teachers might give him a pass on everything and then what? He gets to high school and fails because of his parents stupidity.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

She does not have to deny what the child said, she has to tell them what happened. If the teacher did force a student to dig through the garbage to get the food then she would have been fired and charged. I think I will stop talking to you on this subject as you are obviously digging through the garbage to "support" your argument and I use that word lightly as it can hardly be considered an argument.

Yep.

My mother-in-law was dragged through meetings for months as parents demanded that she'd be punished for sending her child out in -10 weather without a winter coat as punishment.

Problem was that it never happened and the little jerk was just lying after receiving some poor evaluations. No one corroborated the child's story but the parents kept pushing it. (I think they wanted a lawsuit lottery or something, to be honest).

What really sucks is when students lie to corroborate the story... Then a teacher can be removed and we teach these asses of children with horrible parents that you win with false accusations.

This isn't to say that we shouldn't persecute teachers who actually do dumb things. Just that parents need to scrutinize their child's claims a little more. Children will and do lie all the time. Teenagers will argue and weave a web of lies forever, if you let them.

Edited May 14, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[Signals.Cpl]

Yep.

My mother-in-law was dragged through meetings for months as parents demanded that she'd be punished for sending her child out in -10 weather without a winter coat as punishment.

Problem was that it never happened and the little jerk was just lying after receiving some poor evaluations. No one corroborated the child's story but the parents kept pushing it. (I think they wanted a lawsuit lottery or something, to be honest).

What really sucks is when students lie to corroborate the story... Then a teacher can be removed and we teach these asses of children with horrible parents that you win with false accusations.

This isn't to say that we shouldn't persecute teachers who actually do dumb things. Just that parents need to scrutinize their child's claims a little more. Children will and do lie all the time. Teenagers will argue and weave a web of lies forever, if you let them.

And to add to that, we all know what happens when one cries wolf too many times, you teach a kid that its ok to lie to punish someone and when something really happens no one might believe them.

[Bonam]

Maybe schools should have some responsibility to limit waste? Teach kids respect, honesty,responsibility amongst others...

Or maybe they could teach kids how to read, write, and do math? Schools are there to teach kids, not to raise them.

What happens if a teacher tries to educate students on money management? Or proper fitness? I mean many Canadian parents are in no position to educate their kids on finances because they themselves have no idea how to behave with their money.

The average teacher is just as clueless about finance as the average parent.

Nonetheless, if the school wants to have something as part of its curriculum, that's fine. On the other hand, teachers taking it upon themselves to impose their petty morals regarding throwing away food on some poor kid is not appropriate.

[Signals.Cpl]

Or maybe they could teach kids how to read, write, and do math? Schools are there to teach kids, not to raise them.

The average teacher is just as clueless about finance as the average parent.

Nonetheless, if the school wants to have something as part of its curriculum, that's fine. On the other hand, teachers taking it upon themselves to impose their petty morals regarding throwing away food on some poor kid is not appropriate.

And parents are supposed to teach morals, yet we can clearly see that many of them are failing. If a teacher is punished for telling a kid that throwing food away is bad, imagine what happens if a teacher says that rape is bad, or that murder is bad and that we shouldn't be committing those acts what happens then? If teachers had more freedom to give a well rounded education children might be coming out of the school systems much better prepared. This is the kind of attitude that breeds entitled little pricks that cannot survive in the real world and within 10 year this kid and the other like him will be failed human beings because they received no morals from their parents and due to their parents ignorance/stupidity and arrogance they couldn't receive those skills from their teacher. Its ok, prevent your kids from becoming proper human beings and I will let my children soak up all of the education that teachers can give after all we will always need janitors and your kids will provide just the pool of qualified persons to meed the need.

[Bonam]

And parents are supposed to teach morals, yet we can clearly see that many of them are failing. If a teacher is punished for telling a kid that throwing food away is bad, imagine what happens if a teacher says that rape is bad, or that murder is bad and that we shouldn't be committing those acts what happens then? If teachers had more freedom to give a well rounded education children might be coming out of the school systems much better prepared. This is the kind of attitude that breeds entitled little pricks that cannot survive in the real world and within 10 year this kid and the other like him will be failed human beings because they received no morals from their parents and due to their parents ignorance/stupidity and arrogance they couldn't receive those skills from their teacher. Its ok, prevent your kids from becoming proper human beings and I will let my children soak up all of the education that teachers can give after all we will always need janitors and your kids will provide just the pool of qualified persons to meed the need.

Lol does it make you feel better to insult someone else's non-existent kids? I've made it very clear that the reason I oppose teachers meddling in this stuff is because most teachers are bad, just bad. I went through school myself, and unlike some of you fossils here I can still remember those days. The vast majority of the teachers were not particularly intelligent, not more moral than anyone else, not really any kind of superb examples to look up to. No more so than any other average adult member of society. If parents are on average poorly qualified to teach kids morals, then so are teachers.

The teacher profession has been dumbed down a lot. Most teachers just dumbly repeat the same material that they have been programmed to recite from year to year. This material usually sucks, but as long as they stick to it, at least all kids are getting the same sucky experience. When most teachers try to deviate from this, being bad, they only make things worse.

Now, there are definitely good teachers out there too, and they can make all the difference in the world. I had the fortune to have as many as 5 good teachers out of a total of about 25-30 during my time in elementary and high school. But they are rare and getting ever rarer.

[Signals.Cpl]

Lol does it make you feel better to insult someone else's non-existent kids? I've made it very clear that the reason I oppose teachers meddling in this stuff is because most teachers are bad, just bad. I went through school myself, and unlike some of you fossils here I can still remember those days. The vast majority of the teachers were not particularly intelligent, not more moral than anyone else, not really any kind of superb examples to look up to. No more so than any other average adult member of society. If parents are on average poorly qualified to teach kids morals, then so are teachers.

The teacher profession has been dumbed down a lot. Most teachers just dumbly repeat the same material that they have been programmed to recite from year to year. This material usually sucks, but as long as they stick to it, at least all kids are getting the same sucky experience. When most teachers try to deviate from this, being bad, they only make things worse.

Now, there are definitely good teachers out there too, and they can make all the difference in the world. I had the fortune to have as many as 5 good teachers out of a total of about 25-30 during my time in elementary and high school. But they are rare and getting ever rarer.

I am 25 and I can tell you when I was in high school and middle school my teachers were for the most part smart and capable individuals. I'm sorry but when the parents teach their kids that lying and making false accusations gets rewarded then thats bad parenting to me, and if the parent deems those actions appropriate I do believe that teachers are the answer. I grew up with the pricks who blamed the teacher for everything, when they fail a test or the course the teacher was to blame, when they are suspended or get detention the teacher is to blame. When you meet those kinds of people in the workplace you see what that leads to when a 25 your old punk whines and bitches about being wronged by anyone and everyone. god knows I've made mistakes, but I always know who is to blame, and in 99% of the time it is me, if I fail a course its because I didn't study or didn't go to class, if I get in trouble at work its my fault, etc...

As mentioned before, why is it acceptable that your kids could get the sex talk from a teacher but they cannot get a simple comment like don't throw away food? Its kind of sad when a teacher can show your kids how to put a condom on a banana and no complaints from the parents yet when a teacher tells your kid to eat a banana or take it home rather then throwing it out its an outrage.If you think the teaching profession has lowered their standards then that is a different discussion, but in this case the teacher is well within their boundaries otherwise the teacher should teach strictly only what is on the curriculum and nothing else outside of the guidelines the kids lose out simply because they are with teachers for 40 hours a week 10 months of the year, for 12 years of school thats a lot of time for growth as a human being that will be lost.

[Bonam]

I am 25 and I can tell you when I was in high school and middle school my teachers were for the most part smart and capable individuals.

Well in that case either you got lucky or you're too easily impressed. No way for me to know.

I'm sorry but when the parents teach their kids that lying and making false accusations gets rewarded then thats bad parenting to me, and if the parent deems those actions appropriate I do believe that teachers are the answer.

Who said anything about parents teaching their kids to lie being good? I certainly never did. Of course teaching kids dishonesty is bad.

I grew up with the pricks who blamed the teacher for everything, when they fail a test or the course the teacher was to blame, when they are suspended or get detention the teacher is to blame. When you meet those kinds of people in the workplace you see what that leads to when a 25 your old punk whines and bitches about being wronged by anyone and everyone. god knows I've made mistakes, but I always know who is to blame, and in 99% of the time it is me, if I fail a course its because I didn't study or didn't go to class, if I get in trouble at work its my fault, etc...

My dissatisfaction with teachers was never related to such mundane issues. I never failed a test or got suspended or anything. Bad teachers were ones that would drone on monotonously when they could have taught the subject so much more interestingly if they wanted to, ones who made you do stupid pointless projects that in their minds alone were cool but in reality were nothing but a waste of time, ones who when presented with a situation of a conflict/disagreement between two students responded in inherently unfair ways, and last but not least, ones who wasted time preaching their flawed subjective morality.

As mentioned before, why is it acceptable that your kids could get the sex talk from a teacher but they cannot get a simple comment like don't throw away food?

Because not getting an STD is important (and thus is part of the curriculum), whereas eating something you don't want to to save a few cents isn't.

If you think the teaching profession has lowered their standards then that is a different discussion, but in this case the teacher is well within their boundaries otherwise the teacher should teach strictly only what is on the curriculum and nothing else outside of the guidelines the kids lose out simply because they are with teachers for 40 hours a week 10 months of the year, for 12 years of school thats a lot of time for growth as a human being that will be lost.

Closer to 30 hours. And most of the "growth as a human being" happens through interaction with their peers anyway. And the low quality of teachers, while being a large topic of discussion in itself, is certainly relevant here, because it pertains to whether or not we should judge teachers to be qualified to intervene with the behavior of children unrelated to their specific teaching duties.

Let's get back to the basics here: let's say I have a lunch that consists of a sandwich and a banana. I eat my sandwich but find myself no longer hungry, or just don't want to eat the banana. What do I do? Shove that banana back in my pack so its squished remains can be extracted at home and thrown into the garbage, or just toss it right there and then into the garbage along with the wrap from my sandwich, my empty juice box, and anything else? Some may take either course of action, but throwing out the unwanted banana then and there is hardly an outrageous course of action worthy of comment by a teacher. The teacher had no business getting involved in this particular scenario, period. The fact that she chose to spend time and effort focusing on this is a sign of a bad teacher in my opinion and that's all there is to it.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Bonam

[Signals.Cpl]

Well in that case either you got lucky or you're too easily impressed. No way for me to know.

Or maybe you just have incredibly unrealistic view and no one can ever meet those standards. You are assuming that since you had a bad experience with teachers everyone else does too.

Who said anything about parents teaching their kids to lie being good? I certainly never did. Of course teaching kids dishonesty is bad.

If the parents are not doing their job of teaching their kids values the teachers have to step up. Teaching profession is easier to regulate than parents and as a result with proper oversight teachers who find themselves in the not so rare situations where the parents are dropping the ball.

My dissatisfaction with teachers was never related to such mundane issues. I never failed a test or got suspended or anything. Bad teachers were ones that would drone on monotonously when they could have taught the subject so much more interestingly if they wanted to, ones who made you do stupid pointless projects that in their minds alone were cool but in reality were nothing but a waste of time, ones who when presented with a situation of a conflict/disagreement between two students responded in inherently unfair ways, and last but not least, ones who wasted time preaching their flawed subjective morality.

1)What is boring to you might be interesting to someone else.

2)Stupid projects to you once again not necessarily true. I have had to do a lot of "stupid" things when in school and in retrospect turns out those assignments and projects were not so stupid but were very relevant to life.

3)So the teacher responded in an unfair way? Previous experience might have taught them to respond in that way due to parents complaining that little Jonny was punished but little Adam was not and as a result teacher develop defence mechanism in order to avoid stupid complaints by parents in some cases looking for a payday from some organization.

Because not getting an STD is important (and thus is part of the curriculum), whereas eating something you don't want to to save a few cents isn't.

A lot of important things are not in the curriculum in TDSB at least when I was in school a few years ago, that should not prevent teachers from trying to teach kids some of this less important subjects.

Closer to 30 hours. And most of the "growth as a human being" happens through interaction with their peers anyway. And the low quality of teachers, while being a large topic of discussion in itself, is certainly relevant here, because it pertains to whether or not we should judge teachers to be qualified to intervene with the behavior of children unrelated to their specific teaching duties.

I was once treated by a bad doctor, am I to assume all doctors are equally bad? If teachers are low quality limiting the education to the children is the single most idiotic thing to be done. If the teachers are bad, increase the standard, increase pay and start attracting better quality teachers and getting rid of the bad teachers.

Let's get back to the basics here: let's say I have a lunch that consists of a sandwich and a banana. I eat my sandwich but find myself no longer hungry, or just don't want to eat the banana. What do I do? Shove that banana back in my pack so its squished remains can be extracted at home and thrown into the garbage, or just toss it right there and then into the garbage along with the wrap from my sandwich, my empty juice box, and anything else? Some may take either course of action, but throwing out the unwanted banana then and there is hardly an outrageous course of action worthy of comment by a teacher. The teacher had no business getting involved in this particular scenario, period. The fact that she chose to spend time and effort focusing on this is a sign of a bad teacher in my opinion and that's all there is to it.

So you are saying that teachers should avoid making suggestions unless its life changing? What about bullying outside of school grounds? Its done outside of school time and school grounds therefore teachers should not try to stop it right? Now what about the 7 or 8 year olds who don't have access to food on a regular basis, and then they go to school and see spoiled little brats throwing away food while they themselves don't have enough food?

[Guest American Woman]

...teachers taking it upon themselves to impose their petty morals regarding throwing away food on some poor kid is not appropriate.

So teachers on lunchroom duty should just let the kids throw away their lunches and run outside to play - as the parents think that their kids are being supervised and actually eating at lunchtime? It's obvious where this kid got his attitude from - and his parents aren't doing him any favors going along as if he's a victim. Unfortunately, if something this small is going to set him and his parents off this much, there are likely much bigger problems ahead for all of them.

[Guest American Woman]

Lol does it make you feel better to insult someone else's non-existent kids? I've made it very clear that the reason I oppose teachers meddling in this stuff is because most teachers are bad, just bad. I went through school myself, and unlike some of you fossils here I can still remember those days.

Unlike some of you more immature posters here, the "fossils," whose memories serve them very well, have also had the advantage of maturing and growing wiser - something I suspect you've yet to experience. You still come across like a punk know-it-all, and generally speaking, they are the ones who have the most to learn from experience. There's much more to "intelligence" than cognitive intelligence.

[The_Squid]

There is nothing wrong with what the teacher said. Sometimes bad kids need to be given shit over throwing out perfectly good food (or whatever). I was one of those kids who was berated by teachers in school, but I was a bit of a handful. If I ever had the nerve to tell my mom, I would get berated a second time... or worse!

So take your lumps bad kids.... and parents/principals, let teachers do their damn jobs!!

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill!!

[Bonam]

Unlike some of you more immature posters here, the "fossils," whose memories serve them very well, have also had the advantage of maturing and growing wiser - something I suspect you've yet to experience. You still come across like a punk know-it-all, and generally speaking, they are the ones who have the most to learn from experience. There's much more to "intelligence" than cognitive intelligence.

Thank you for your words of wisdom, honored elder.

[Bonam]

So teachers on lunchroom duty should just let the kids throw away their lunches and run outside to play - as the parents think that their kids are being supervised and actually eating at lunchtime?

Sure, if the kid isn't hungry, why should the teacher force him/her to eat? Being forced to eat food you don't want is the number one most surefire way to make sure the kid ends up eating even less. There are certain foods my gramma coerced me to eat when I was a little kid that I basically still don't eat to this day because I find them repulsive. But yes, the kids should be "supervised", whether in a "lunchroom" or playing outside.

[Bonam]

Or maybe you just have incredibly unrealistic view and no one can ever meet those standards. You are assuming that since you had a bad experience with teachers everyone else does too.

Well the thing is there were teachers that met those standards, so they are not so high that no one could meet them.

1)What is boring to you might be interesting to someone else.

2)Stupid projects to you once again not necessarily true. I have had to do a lot of "stupid" things when in school and in retrospect turns out those assignments and projects were not so stupid but were very relevant to life.

3)So the teacher responded in an unfair way? Previous experience might have taught them to respond in that way due to parents complaining that little Jonny was punished but little Adam was not and as a result teacher develop defence mechanism in order to avoid stupid complaints by parents in some cases looking for a payday from some organization.

Yes, I am aware that the complaints I listed are subjective in nature. Doesn't make them any less valid, however.

A lot of important things are not in the curriculum in TDSB at least when I was in school a few years ago, that should not prevent teachers from trying to teach kids some of this less important subjects.

Subjects? I didn't realize retrieving unwanted fruits from a waste container is a subject now.

I was once treated by a bad doctor, am I to assume all doctors are equally bad? If teachers are low quality limiting the education to the children is the single most idiotic thing to be done. If the teachers are bad, increase the standard, increase pay and start attracting better quality teachers and getting rid of the bad teachers.

If you were once treated by a bad doctor, you shouldn't assume that all doctors are bad, but maybe you'll be more careful around them and get a second opinion before you go through with major procedures. That way if the first doctor was bad, you'll have some indication of this. That is, maybe if its important you shouldn't let doctors treat you without some confirmation from other members of their field. And yes, I'd be all for increasing the quality of teachers. Unfortunately the trend right now is cutting budgets or at best keeping them steady, not major increases.

So you are saying that teachers should avoid making suggestions unless its life changing? What about bullying outside of school grounds? Its done outside of school time and school grounds therefore teachers should not try to stop it right?

Outside of school grounds? I don't know, in no school that I ever went to did teachers patrol around outside of school grounds to try to prevent bullying. That seems like a job for people in some other profession, not teachers. Most school I've gone to had grounds of their own where kids spent lunch, breaks, etc (like a field, playground, park, etc). Anyway, bullying is an issue of the physical safety of the kids. The school is charged with ensuring the physical safety of kids on its premises, so its staff should perform the duties required to accomplish that.

Now what about the 7 or 8 year olds who don't have access to food on a regular basis, and then they go to school and see spoiled little brats throwing away food while they themselves don't have enough food?

Seriously? Trying to make this a poverty issue? Would little hungry Johnny feel better if he sees big fat Ralph take a bite out of his sandwich and then wrap it back up in his lunch bag then if he sees big fat Ralph throw it away? I don't see how it would matter. Heck, if hungry Johnny sees someone about to throw away their lunch and is really hungry, he could *gasp* go ask that person if they don't want it, and maybe get a free lunch that way. Anyway, most schools have programs to provide food for kids of parents in poverty.

[Signals.Cpl]

Sure, if the kid isn't hungry, why should the teacher force him/her to eat? Being forced to eat food you don't want is the number one most surefire way to make sure the kid ends up eating even less. There are certain foods my gramma coerced me to eat when I was a little kid that I basically still don't eat to this day because I find them repulsive. But yes, the kids should be "supervised", whether in a "lunchroom" or playing outside.

Yeah forced, because the teacher tied his hands and force-fed him. Its called a suggestion take it or leave it but its a suggestion.

[Guest American Woman]

Thank you for your words of wisdom, honored elder.

You're most welcome. Now go forth, young Grasshopper, and you too may gain the wisdom of your peers.

[Guest American Woman]

Yeah forced, because the teacher tied his hands and force-fed him. Its called a suggestion take it or leave it but its a suggestion.

Evidently one mustn't upset a kid with a suggestion. To do so is to result in the child feeling forced or threatened or victimized or who knows what?? We must walk on eggshells lest we upset them. We, as their caretakers and role models, must let them do only as they please.

I can't imagine what some of these kids are going to be like as adults, but I don't doubt that the Real World is going to hit them hard.

[GostHacked]

So the teacher is cleared of all wrongdoing and you still assume the teacher is guilty. Reminds me of a saying I once heard, "when someone says your sister is a wh*re good luck proving you don't have a sister". She was accused of something, she is cleared of the false accusation yet you still view her as guilty.

OJ was found innocent. But how many think he is still guilty?