Even if you aren't religious. . .

[cybercoma]

Typical belittling nonsense. You have no right telling anyone what they should or should not find offensive.

[jefferiah]

Typical belittling nonsense. You have no right telling anyone what they should or should not find offensive.

You are a baby. There is no other way to put it.

You can find it offensive if you want. Hell you can find the Pepsi logo offensive. It just makes you a complete baby. And the rest of the world does not have to bend over for your faux outrage over something that really has no effect on you. Grow a pair!

[Michael Hardner]

You are a baby. There is no other way to put it.

You can find it offensive if you want. Hell you can find the Pepsi logo offensive. It just makes you a complete baby. And the rest of the world does not have to bend over for your faux outrage over something that really has no effect on you. Grow a pair!

jefferiah - Insults are NOT PERMITTED here. Read the Rules and Guidelines in the menu bar again please.

[jefferiah]

jefferiah - Insults are NOT PERMITTED here. Read the Rules and Guidelines in the menu bar again please.

It is the plain truth. Sorry about that. But it is. If he is worried about the tshirt of someone who is several miles away, he is not a grown man with a pair of cahones. He is a snivelling baby.

You can ban me if you like. I post here once a year anyways so I could care less. But Cybercoma is a baby, and someone needs to tell him to grow a set.

Edited May 6, 2012 by jefferiah

[Michael Hardner]

It is the plain truth. Sorry about that. But it is. If he is worried about the tshirt of someone who is several miles away, he is not a grown man with a pair of cahones. He is a snivelling baby.

You can ban me if you like. I post here once a year anyways so I could care less. But Cybercoma is a baby, and someone needs to tell him to grow a set.

Whether or not it's true, we don't want to read it on here.

[jefferiah]

Whether or not it's true, we don't want to read it on here.

Well, you are free to report me then or whatever it is you do here.

Edited May 6, 2012 by jefferiah

[Guest Manny]

Did you read the part of my previous post where I address that - re: PC running amok? .

Yes, I did read it. And I agree, to a point. Dress code rules is part of our life. So then the satanic shirts from their favourite metal bands should also be disallowed, if they offend those who believe in god, or those who only listen to techno.

[Guest Manny]

I am in favour of allowing personal expression, when possible. Not, repression and conformity. So it seems to me a reasonable compromise would be to have a strict dress code on most days, but to allow some freedom of expression one day a week, like on Friday. And perhaps if people want to participate, they eithwr have to pay a dollar to the student association, or perform some minor voluntary service on their break time.

[Guest Manny]

That way everybody has a chance to be accomodated, learn to tolerate peoples differences, and think about the important things in life.

[Guest American Woman]

Yes, I did read it. And I agree, to a point. Dress code rules is part of our life. So then the satanic shirts from their favourite metal bands should also be disallowed, if they offend those who believe in god, or those who only listen to techno.

I personally support school dress codes that don't allow t-shirts with any kind of a message. I personally think school, as a place of education, should be respected by the students as such; I don't think students should be allowed to dress the same as they would to go hang out with friends - any more than one is allowed to dress that way in the work place.

[eyeball]

That way everybody has a chance to be accomodated, learn to tolerate peoples differences, and think about the important things in life.

Excellent idea, make Friday a let it all hang out day.

It seems what we really need is a way for people to respond to the messages they're subjected to. Perhaps a digitized social-media t-shirt that allows people to rate the messages they see via text-messaging. The messenger would then have the opportunity to reassess their beliefs according to the number of likes and dislikes they receive. Normally a simple kick in the ass or a pat on the back from a principal would do but it's just not a normal world anymore.

[Michael Hardner]

Telling people to relax when they're offended is even more belittling. That's like telling them that their feelings are wrong or that they're perceiving things in a way that they shouldn't be.

I suppose that's true on a personal level. If I were in the midst of someone who was offended, I don't think I would just tell them to 'relax', but if we're talking about administering and managing services, there is in fact a level of complaint that we should not have to deal with. "We" meaning the services we administer as a collective.

Why does that level exist ? Because there are limits on everything.

Look up the term gaslighting. Gaslighting is actually a form of psychological abuse. It's like blaming rape victims for being raped telling Jews to lighten up if racist propaganda was spray-painted on their synagogue. When someone does something that's offensive, people have every right to be offended. I fail to see how this jerk's t-shirt is not offensive when it's telling me and everyone else that doesn't believe in his faith that our lives are a waste.

People have a right to be offended, and a right to offend others too. And we shouldn't worry about it too much at that level; that's my point.

If he wants to wear that shirt around in public and broadly proclaim his faith that's one thing. But it's terribly inappropriate in a high school, which is supposed to be a safe space and learning environmente. Moreover, the point I think the superintended and many others have made is that it's not about the faith. If he wanted to wear a shirt that said, "Jesus is my home boy!" or "I <3 Jesus!" it wouldn't even be an issue. The issue is the offensive tone of his shirt. It's like a Muslim student wearing a shirt that says "Infidels are Worthless!" Imagine! Then imagine him turning around and using the ludicrous excuse, "well that's what I believe! You have to respect my beliefs!"

The issue is also whether we should be talking about it. "We" in this case meaning you, me, and anybody who read about this in the press. There are more important things for us to pay attention to.

[jefferiah]

I personally support school dress codes that don't allow t-shirts with any kind of a message. I personally think school, as a place of education, should be respected by the students as such; I don't think students should be allowed to dress the same as they would to go hang out with friends - any more than one is allowed to dress that way in the work place.

Would you allow track pants?

[cybercoma]

The issue is also whether we should be talking about it. "We" in this case meaning you, me, and anybody who read about this in the press. There are more important things for us to pay attention to.

Certainly. My point is simply that the shirt is not as benign as some people suggest. If you're not sitting in class with this kid, it likely doesn't really matter to you. However, if you have to show up to school every day to be told that your life is a waste because you don't believe in Jesus, I'm sure you would find it pretty offensive. People are entitled to their opinions and they can express them, but even in the classroom you cannot express any opinion you want. Even in university, many professors will include in their syllabus a clause about racism and discrimination in discussions. Students have a right to attend school and be in classes without having to be belittled and dehumanized. The message of this kid's shirt is indeed dehumanizing, as it suggests a devaluation of the life of non-Christians. That kind of thing cannot be tolerated in a school where there are students from many different backgrounds. It's not the expression of Christianity that's the problem, but the belittling of others and their beliefs that should not be tolerated in that environment. Which is why jefferiah's posts make me laugh. He's supporting this kid's effort to belittle others by trying to belittle me. The irony is that non of this is very Christianly. Edited May 7, 2012 by cybercoma

[jefferiah]

The message of this kid's shirt is indeed dehumanizing, as it suggests a devaluation of the life of non-Christians.. Which is why jefferiah's posts make me laugh. He's supporting this kid's effort to belittle others by trying to belittle me. The irony is that non of this is very Christianly.

I am simply telling you that you are over-analyzing things. If someone wore a shirt which said 'Life Is Wasted Without Mohammed' I would not interpret that as something which is belittling to me or dehumanizing. Because it is not. The kid is not trying to belittle people. And if you feel belittled in this case, it is because you choose to be.

Edited May 7, 2012 by jefferiah

[Moonlight Graham]

And yet this hate-filled message is somehow better? If schools are to be restricted speech zones, as they are, then that restriction should be applied evenhandedly. There should not be special exceptions for Christian propaganda that degrades non-Christians. Or, if we want to make schools a place where anything goes so long as its legal, that's fine too. Then this t-shirt would be fine, as would be one covered in swear words, or racist slogans.

How is the shirt a "hate-filled" message? I don't see any hate being communicated.

Racist slogans would be far worse than this, and IMO a lot of swear words too. "Paris Hilton is a *c-word*" (insert real potty word), I think most would find that far more offensive than something about Jesus.

It's not a matter of having thick skin, it's a matter of wanting rules about the freedom and restriction of speech at schools to be applied evenly, rather than establishing a pro-Christian or pro-religious precedent.

Well, they better figure out where to draw the line, because it's a really fine one. Does that mean a kid can't have a picture of Jesus or Mary in their locker? Can they wear a cross around their necks? Probably yes, it seems like this is an issue of this kids' shirt "preaching" to other kids and judging them through a religious lens, which is a bit vague in this case anyways. Just in my opinion, the shirt wouldn't bother me, nor would a "Life is wasted without Allah" shirt etc.

[Moonlight Graham]

When someone does something that's offensive, people have every right to be offended. I fail to see how this jerk's t-shirt is not offensive when it's telling me and everyone else that doesn't believe in his faith that our lives are a waste.

People have every right to be offended, sure. The dilemma is whose rights should triumph? People having the right not to be offended vs this kid having the right to wear that shirt? It's a tricky line to draw.

[Moonlight Graham]

Do you think the size of the lettering is actually a factor? Would you think differently about it if the text for "Jesus" was large?

Yes, it would be more pronounced & effective in communicating the message.

Life is wasted without JESUS.

Life is WASTED without Jesus.

[Bonam]

Racist slogans would be far worse than this, and IMO a lot of swear words too. "Paris Hilton is a *c-word*" (insert real potty word), I think most would find that far more offensive than something about Jesus.

Says you. Why do you get to be the one to decide? If schools are to ban speech that some find offensive (swearing), then religious bigotry should equally well be banned. On the other hand, you can allow full free speech at schools. Both are fine by me. But selective restriction of speech based on what some politician or school board decides based on who screams the loudest is unacceptable to me.

How is the shirt a "hate-filled" message? I don't see any hate being communicated.

Racist slogans would be far worse than this, and IMO a lot of swear words too...

Btw, religious bigotry is considered just as bad as racist bigotry. Would you still say you don't see "any hate being communicated" if the message was "Life is wasted if you aren't White"? It is exactly analogous.

[cybercoma]

Does that mean a kid can't have a picture of Jesus or Mary in their locker?

I don't understand why you insist on using such a silly example. He wasn't simply wearing a shirt with Jesus or Mary on it. You're obviously smart enough to know that there's a difference between wearing a shirt with a picture of Jesus and wearing a shirt that announces that anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus is wasting their life.

[cybercoma]

People have every right to be offended, sure. The dilemma is whose rights should triumph? People having the right not to be offended vs this kid having the right to wear that shirt? It's a tricky line to draw.

Not in a school environment it isn't. I couldn't possibly care less if the kid wore it on the street.

[Bonam]

More on this story:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/05/07/ns-jesus-shirt-student-school.html?cmp=rss

As expected, the T-shirt was just one small part of the many ways this kid expressed his religious bigotry. And the dad's comments are hilariously ironic.

[Black Dog]

Sounds like the wingnut doesn't fall from the tree.

[Moonlight Graham]

Says you. Why do you get to be the one to decide?

I don't, I'm just starting my opinion on an internet forum.

But selective restriction of speech based on what some politician or school board decides based on who screams the loudest is unacceptable to me.

Agreed.

Btw, religious bigotry is considered just as bad as racist bigotry.

Since when? On TV/media you can see all the time a preachy person saying ie: "if you don't believe in God you're going to hell". Meanwhile, most all racist (or at least all that is white supremest/anti-semetic) speech has been banned/censored.

I can start a thread on these forums stating "If you don't believe in God you're going to hell" or "Protestants are better than Catholics" and likely get away with it. I probably can't start a thread saying "Black people are inferior to white people" without major flak if not suspension. It's just our societal norms.

[Michael Hardner]

With the revelation that these folks are cranks, can we stop talking about this issue now ?