Abortion revisited

dre · May 30, 2012

IIRC, the govt of the day tried, but only got to a second reading where I think it died....or got aborted in the political process

Will probably be tabled again sometime in the future.

Then it will get struck down.

betsy · May 30, 2012

deleted. double posting.

Edited May 30, 2012 by betsy

betsy · May 30, 2012

Except everyone doesn't have the same rights; minors don't have the same rights as adults.

You gotta be kidding me! We're talking human rights!

So just for starters, I can assume that you support abortion for a rape victim, right? If not, your argument doesn't stand.

I think the normal procedures for rape victims is to get "cleaned out" in the hospital right after rape occurs. This not only prevents unwanted pregnancy but also STD.

If you got rape, won't you go see the doctor to make sure you didn't get anything?

No, that's not the whole point of the debate. The whole point of the debate is whether or not a woman can be forced by law to carry an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy to term.

Well that explains it. You're not on the right page! Here is what I'm on about....

An Ontario MP, former lawyer, wants to have a debate on when is a embryo defined as human being.

Edited May 30, 2012 by betsy

betsy · May 30, 2012

I'm not sure what the deal is with say a traffic accident where you are at fault and cause the foetus to die.

I'm not sure but I think there was a case and the mother sued....I think she won.

dre · May 30, 2012

You gotta be kidding me! We're talking human rights!

I think the normal procedures for rape victims is to get "cleaned out" in the hospital right after rape occurs. This not only prevents unwanted pregnancy but also STD.

If you got rape, won't you go see the doctor to make sure you didn't get anything?

Well that explains it. You're not on the right page! Here is what I'm on about....

[/b]

An Ontario MP, former lawyer, wants to have a debate on when is a embryo defined as human being.

Thats fine but the outcome of that debate will have no impact on abortion. There is no "right to abortion" in Canada, only a restriction on the right of the state to interfere in the choice. You cant change that without amending the constituion to strip women of their right to liberty.

BubberMiley · May 30, 2012

I think the normal procedures for rape victims is to get "cleaned out" in the hospital right after rape occurs. This not only prevents unwanted pregnancy but also STD.

If you got rape, won't you go see the doctor to make sure you didn't get anything?

That's a pretty cowardly avoidance of the question. Not only is it not true that they "clean you out" (which would amount to an abortion if life begins at conception), what if a father rapes his 12-year-old daughter and doesn't take her to the hospital afterwards?

But don't worry. I don't expect you to answer the question, because I don't think there are any evangelical blogs that deal with it. :lol:

betsy · May 30, 2012

Thats fine but the outcome of that debate will have no impact on abortion. There is no "right to abortion" in Canada, only a restriction on the right of the state to interfere in the choice. You cant change that without amending the constituion to strip women of their right to liberty.

Well I don't know what the outcome of the debate will be....if we do ever get to have one.

The restriction on the state to interfere with the choice can drastically change if the fetus is deemed human, deserving of every right as anyone else.

guyser · May 30, 2012

I think the normal procedures for rape victims is to get "cleaned out" in the hospital right after rape occurs. This not only prevents unwanted pregnancy but also STD.

If you got rape, won't you go see the doctor to make sure you didn't get anything?

Is it really that hard for you to answer one simple question?

AW asked.." I can assume that you support abortion for a rape victim, right?"

And you answer with that claptrap?

For the record, rapes can occur where there is no general access to Hospitals or medical facilities able to handle it.

A rape kit may or may not contain an RU-486 pill but will have a kit for specimen collection and that is why they are sent to the hospital, to help the cops and crown pursue a case with evidence.

dre · May 30, 2012

Well I don't know what the outcome of the debate will be....if we do ever get to have one.

The restriction on the state to interfere with the choice can drastically change if the fetus is deemed human, deserving of every right as anyone else.

Sorry but the attempt to do that has been struck down as well in S.C 753.

The common law must reflect the values enshrined in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Liability for fetal injury by pregnant women would run contrary to two of the most fundamental of these values—liberty and equality.

You would need a constitutional amendment THERE as well, and the chances of that happened are virtually zero. The government cannot assign a fetus judicial personality without violating the constitutional rights of the mother.

The ruling was further re-enforced when Winnipeg Child Services VS D.F.G.

Put quite simply the courts slammed the door in the governments face, and rightly so.

Edited May 30, 2012 by dre

betsy · May 30, 2012

Sorry but the attempt to do that has been struck down as well in S.C 753.

You would need a constitutional amendment THERE as well, and the chances of that happened are virtually zero. The government cannot assign a fetus judicial personality without violating the constitutional rights of the mother.

The ruling was further re-enforced when Winnipeg Child Services VS D.F.G.

Put quite simply the courts slammed the door in the governments face, and rightly so.

We'll just have to wait and see what will happen.

dre · May 30, 2012

We'll just have to wait and see what will happen.

We already know what happened.

BubberMiley · May 30, 2012

I think the normal procedures for rape victims is to get "cleaned out" in the hospital right after rape occurs. This not only prevents unwanted pregnancy but also STD.

If you got rape, won't you go see the doctor to make sure you didn't get anything?

I'm shocked that Betsy is now okay with abortion in some cases. What would Deuteronomy say? :lol:

cybercoma · May 31, 2012

your "reasoning" is all askewed. You're not addressing the issue.

I assure you; kimmy's reasoning is not even remotely "askewed."

cybercoma · May 31, 2012

What you guys are saying through all your lame attempts come out loud and clear. You just don't have the guts to say it plainly.

You don't care at all if the fetus is human.

I said it plainly. You've obviously ignored my posts. The fetus is human. To say otherwise is patently absurd. It simply doesn't matter that the fetus is human because no one has the right to demand the use of your body to keep them alive for any period of time without your consent.

cybercoma · May 31, 2012

We already know what happened.

I should have read the thread before replying, as it appears to be over after this post. :lol:

betsy · May 31, 2012

Oh the knee-jerks spouting circle that leads to nowhere.... :lol:

Signals.Cpl · May 31, 2012

I have one question and its a standalone question. What is the opinion about people who are too stupid to exercise any other birth control and have multiple abortions? I understand that the position of many people is that you cannot be forced to deliver the baby but what happens when someone has 2,3,4 or more abortions?

Black Dog · May 31, 2012

I have one question and its a standalone question. What is the opinion about people who are too stupid to exercise any other birth control and have multiple abortions? I understand that the position of many people is that you cannot be forced to deliver the baby but what happens when someone has 2,3,4 or more abortions?

Is this actually an issue?

Michael Hardner · May 31, 2012

So call it a human, or a duck, or a billy goat. It doesnt matter because the state has no such right under our constitution to force their judgement here on the mother.

So personal opinions on what constitutes a life don't matter ? I disagree. The laws are clear, but the murkiness of peoples' personal opinions on this is far more interesting and telling to me.

cybercoma · May 31, 2012

I have one question and its a standalone question. What is the opinion about people who are too stupid to exercise any other birth control and have multiple abortions? I understand that the position of many people is that you cannot be forced to deliver the baby but what happens when someone has 2,3,4 or more abortions?

Abortion is birth control. There's no difference between having 1 abortion or 20.

Michael Hardner · May 31, 2012

Abortion is birth control. There's no difference between having 1 abortion or 20.

Having 20 is very costly to the person and to the community.

Signals.Cpl · May 31, 2012

Is this actually an issue?

To me it is. I support abortion in cases where the pregnancy is the result of rape or when the pregnancy is going to put the women in unnecessary risk, but I oppose abortion for people who are too stupid to use a condom or other means of birth control. To me an abortion has to have a legitimate reason behind it, instead of some 19 or 20 year old idiot girl who gets regular abortions because she is too stupid to use other means of birth control.

Signals.Cpl · May 31, 2012

Abortion is birth control. There's no difference between having 1 abortion or 20.

So you think its ok to have abortions instead of using a condom and/or birth control pills.

Black Dog · May 31, 2012

To me it is. I support abortion in cases where the pregnancy is the result of rape or when the pregnancy is going to put the women in unnecessary risk, but I oppose abortion for people who are too stupid to use a condom or other means of birth control. To me an abortion has to have a legitimate reason behind it, instead of some 19 or 20 year old idiot girl who gets regular abortions because she is too stupid to use other means of birth control.

Abortion because you failed to use other means of birth control is a perfectly legitimate reason.