Signals.Cpl Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Posted April 15, 2012 I'm guessing it also doesn't include forty years of salaries and benefits for the crew, plus the costs of the infrastructure, docks, fuel, etc. for those ships. You are guessing right. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
DogOnPorch Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 The question is what kind of insurance does that risk justify, and how should that insurance be paid for? Should we spend 10 billion dollars to be able to get to Prince Willian Island? 20 Billion? 100 Billion? A trillion? Should we borrow the money? If risk management is not constrained by costs it actually BECOMES a risk itself. Government spending is a far bigger threat to us than any foreign menace you could currently trot out. This kind of thinking has bankrupted empires, and it has the west in a lot of trouble. Like you, I think we should just give it all to Russia and move our Northern border to within 20 miles of the 49th. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) No, she's in Toronto on a pension. In other words, you don't care what Red China does up in our Arctic. Or anyone for that matter. Free stuff. Come on in. Edited April 15, 2012 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
punked Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 I am just going to jump in here and point out it is Kind William Island and Prince William sound. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 I am just going to jump in here and point out it is Kind William Island and Prince William sound. Good thing you had a supersonic aircraft. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
punked Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 In other words, you don't care what Red China does up in our Arctic. Or anyone for that matter. Free stuff. Come on in. What red China? If we don't get there in an hour China is going to steal all the oil? I think if China can take everything in an hour instead of the 12 hours it might take an our Navy ships stationed in the Arctic to get there then they are so advanced that an F35 wont stop them. Quote
eyeball Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 In other words, you don't care what Red China does up in our Arctic. Or anyone for that matter. Free stuff. Come on in. Red China in the Arctic? I'm far more concerned about capitalist China in Alberta. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Signals.Cpl Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Posted April 15, 2012 Yeah.... they should disclose both the purchase and operating costs of the ships as well. As a matter of fact... they should do this if they even buy so much as a ballpoint pen. Thats my point, if we are to do the accounting for the F-35s one way then the new ships should be counted the same. Problem is when the Canadian public sees the figure for the ships rise from 33billion to 70billion or 80 billion there would be an outcry and that is why the NDP is quiet about this, the NDP support in those provinces will drop because if the ships are cancelled the shipyards lose work and whoever forced the issue is out a number of votes. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
jacee Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 Yeah.... they should disclose both the purchase and operating costs of the ships as well. As a matter of fact... they should do this if they even buy so much as a ballpoint pen. I can't wait for the life cycle costing of a civil service ballpoint pen. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Red China in the Arctic? I'm far more concerned about capitalist China in Alberta. Being that property managment is one of my many hats, you needn't tell me how much of Canada Red China is simply buying up. http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/RestOfAsia/China-to-launch-new-ice-breaker-for-polar-expedition/Article1-712305.aspx Edited April 15, 2012 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
punked Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 Red China in the Arctic? I'm far more concerned about capitalist China in Alberta. That is the thing isn't it. Why would the fight an expensive war to get some piece of rock when it is cheaper for them just to buy it out right from our Conservative government. Heck it will go for a song when we bankrupt ourselves by trying to respond to fake problems like the Chinese invading King William Island. Quote
eyeball Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 Thats my point, if we are to do the accounting for the F-35s one way then the new ships should be counted the same. Problem is when the Canadian public sees the figure for the ships rise from 33billion to 70billion or 80 billion there would be an outcry and that is why the NDP is quiet about this, the NDP support in those provinces will drop because if the ships are cancelled the shipyards lose work and whoever forced the issue is out a number of votes. Harper should feel perfectly free to raise this criticism - in fact I wish he would. Please bring it on, I dare you. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
waldo Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 In other words, you don't care what Red China does up in our Arctic. Or anyone for that matter. Free stuff. Come on in. c'mon... we don't care to take the brunt of your Harper frustrations! best you speak to the Harper hand... the one out forging alliances/relationships with the Chineeeese! Mr Harper...like yourself, can KMA. When the gate dropped, bozos out there went *DING*, gosh...let's trade with the Red Chinese! There's money to be made. No matter we're selling out future generations. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 That is the thing isn't it. Why would the fight an expensive war to get some piece of rock when it is cheaper for them just to buy it out right from our Conservative government. Heck it will go for a song when we bankrupt ourselves by trying to respond to fake problems like the Chinese invading King William Island. So what are the new Chinese icebreakers for? Hmmmm? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 c'mon... we don't care to take the brunt of your Harper frustrations! I didn't vote for your pal Harper. Sorry. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Signals.Cpl Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Posted April 15, 2012 any ideas? Ya, you have no argument... you lost the argument... it's Treasury Board policy that aligns with fundamental auditing principle. Yet the NDP does not put forth a complaint about the costs of the ships. Seems to me that NDP supporters go after the F-35's and claim the Conservatives lied about the cost yet they don't complain about the ships when the Conservatives used the same accounting policy with them. When the NDP launch a complaint about the NSPS then we can talk about my argument failing. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
punked Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 So what are the new Chinese icebreakers for? Hmmmm? You mean the one they built in 1990 and is still active service. I am so scared 20 years ago. Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Posted April 15, 2012 mystery speak? Read the rest of my comment before you edit to fit your bias Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
punked Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 Yet the NDP does not put forth a complaint about the costs of the ships. Seems to me that NDP supporters go after the F-35's and claim the Conservatives lied about the cost yet they don't complain about the ships when the Conservatives used the same accounting policy with them. When the NDP launch a complaint about the NSPS then we can talk about my argument failing. That is because the government gave the NDP everything they asked for on this project. They opened the books, they had a fair bidding process, and they stole the idea of a national ship building strategy from the NDP who believe in defending Canada not dropping bombs in the middle east. Why would they get mad when the government was open about the process and gave them everything they asked for? Quote
waldo Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 Thats my point, if we are to do the accounting for the F-35s one way then the new ships should be counted the same. Problem is when the Canadian public sees the figure for the ships rise from 33billion to 70billion or 80 billion there would be an outcry and that is why the NDP is quiet about this, the NDP support in those provinces will drop because if the ships are cancelled the shipyards lose work and whoever forced the issue is out a number of votes. give it a rest. You have no argument against policy/principle... your only recourse is to continue to beat the politicization drum. Here's a thought - what role do you understand the Opposition Parties play in a Parliamentary democracy, one following the Westminster system? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 You mean the one they built in 1990 and is still active service. I am so scared 20 years ago. Ummm...no. The ones being launched this year. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
punked Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) Ummm...no. The ones being launched this year. Based on a design from 1990, they have had the same icebreaker for 20 years and yet you weren't scared but now that they will have what 2-3 of them you are scared. Here is an idea maybe they are looking to replace a 25 year old icebreaker they have just like us. The only difference is their Ice Breaker wont be a Class 5 like ours so they wont be able to go where we can go, they will be much slower, and there will be less of them. I personally am not scared of on Chinese icebreaker we are building way more then that. Edited April 15, 2012 by punked Quote
Signals.Cpl Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Posted April 15, 2012 That is because the government gave the NDP everything they asked for on this project. They opened the books, they had a fair bidding process, and they stole the idea of a national ship building strategy from the NDP who believe in defending Canada not dropping bombs in the middle east. Why would they get mad when the government was open about the process and gave them everything they asked for? So what you are saying is that the NDP has no ethics and when it suits them they will agree to anything and when confrontation will bring them more exposure they will ignore what is needed by Canada and play politics. Thank You for the explanation. Quote Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst
DogOnPorch Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 Based on a design from 1990, they have had the same icebreaker for 20 years and yet you weren't scared but now that they will have what 2-3 of them you are scared. Here is an idea maybe they are looking to replace a 25 year old icebreaker they have just like us. I personally am not scared of on Chinese icebreaker we are building way more then that. If I'm scared, you're stupid. No ideas what a nation like China...located mainly in the sub tropics...might need with nuclear icebreakers? Log jams on the Yellow River? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
punked Posted April 15, 2012 Report Posted April 15, 2012 (edited) So what you are saying is that the NDP has no ethics and when it suits them they will agree to anything and when confrontation will bring them more exposure they will ignore what is needed by Canada and play politics. Thank You for the explanation. No what I am saying is the NDP asked for things from the government, got them and weren't lied to so they were happy. With the plane they asked for things, didn't get them, were lied to, found out and were angry. I am sure DND has done life cycle costing for the Ships to because that is the law and they are required to. In this case the opposition didn't ask for that costing. If Harper wants to release that, he can go right ahead. Edited April 15, 2012 by punked Quote
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