cybercoma Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 If lying to parliament is governing, then I'm becoming an anarchist. Quote
Smallc Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 If lying to parliament is governing, then I'm becoming an anarchist. Governing involves managing the country or, as the opposition, presenting an alternative managing of the country, not chasing down your own tail in the hopes that something, anything, will stick to the Conservatives. Quote
jacee Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) If lying to parliament is governing, then I'm becoming an anarchist. I'm in. Cos our representative democracy has become a race to the bottom, with both the Libs and Cons vying for bottom place. I think we leave them to their mud wrestling and move on without either of them. It's just possible that there's another way ... a way whereby no political party is ever in a position again to foist their arrogance on on us again ... a way to a representative democracy where the seats in parliament actually reflect the proportion of public support for the parties ... a way to force them to collaborate across party (dogma) lines to find the best solutions FOR CANADIANS, instead of just for their party. I'm not quite willing to endorse the direct democracy of the Anarchists as we don't know how to implement that yet (though the Occupy movement is making progress in that, esp. the Occupy-your-neighbourhood concept) but the candidates who get my next federal vote will have a solid plan to implement proportionate representation, and will do it immediately. The two major governing parties - Libs and Cons - are corrupted beyond redemption. The 'new way' will have to aspire to something better than what has existed in the past: Never again will we hear the pathetic excuse "But that's what the Libs/Cons did!" Hello? Canadians here! Do we look stupid enough to want governments that only aspire to be as bad as the ones we threw out of office? A new day ... A new way. A new way that will have to engage all Canadians, not just 'voters' or party members. Because that's what I'm proposing ... not just 'proportionate representation' of voters, but proportionate representation of the population. ,.. I think I see a new thread topic forming ... I'll get to that later ... Too nice out right now! Edited April 13, 2012 by jacee Quote
jacee Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Governing involves managing the country or, as the opposition, presenting an alternative managing of the country, not chasing down your own tail in the hopes that something, anything, will stick to the Conservatives. GOVERNING involves representing the interests and wishes of the people, not chasing the tail of the previous party down the sewer and telling us the smell is all 'roses'. Party hacks just don't get it ... yet: Entrenched and corrupted party politics are the problem. I repeat ... Hello? Canadians here! Do we look stupid enough to want governments that only aspire to be as bad as the ones we threw out of office? A new day ... A new way. Edited April 13, 2012 by jacee Quote
Shady Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 GOVERNING involves representing the interests and wishes of the people, not chasing the tail of the previous party down the sewer and telling us the smell is all 'roses'. The Conservatives were given a majority government by the will of the people. It's time you started respecting democracy. Quote
mentalfloss Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 The Conservatives were given a majority government by the will of the people. It's time you started respecting democracy. Democracy only happens at election time. Constituents need to shut up until 2015. Quote
Smallc Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Democracy only happens at election time. Constituents need to shut up until 2015. No, but the government has a mandate, and the squealing of the opposition shouldn't be their primary concern. Edited April 13, 2012 by Smallc Quote
Shady Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 No,but the government has a mandate, and the squealing of the opposition shouldn't be their primary concern. Exactly. The country isn't run on constant referendum, despite what some people in this forum seem to think. Quote
dre Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 No,but the government has a mandate, and the squealing of the opposition shouldn't be their primary concern. Their mandate includes a more open and transparent government. Thats one of the things they campaigned on. As for your comment about the "squealing of the opposition". That opposition represents almost 60% of Canadian voters, who will be expected to pay for 60% of the pricetag of these planes. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 Their mandate includes a more open and transparent government. Thats one of the things they campaigned on. As for your comment about the "squealing of the opposition". That opposition represents almost 60% of Canadian voters, who will be expected to pay for 60% of the pricetag of these planes. Ummmm...how many of those are on welfare? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 ...or vote for that matter? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 Ummmm...how many of those are on welfare? Ummmm ask a question that isnt stupid and I might answer. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 Ummmm ask a question that isnt stupid and I might answer. So, most? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dre Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 ...or vote for that matter? All of them, genius. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 All of them, genius. Hmmm...100% of non-Harper luvin' Canadians voted, eh? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Smallc Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 Their mandate includes a more open and transparent government. Thats one of the things they campaigned on. They also campaigned on the F-35. Quote
jacee Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Shady, on 13 April 2012 - 09:38 AM, said: The Conservatives were given a majority government by the will of the people. It's tim you started respecting democracy. 'Or else'? Or else what, Shady? Or else Harper will sic his bully cops on us? I'm supposed to "respect" the pathetic and corrupt distortion of democracy the Libs and Cons parties want to pretend is still democracy? It's time for all Canadians to remember just how and why that democracy came into being: Our 'representative' democracy was designed to keep the people quiet while the monarchy, aristocracy, and the merchant class rob the land of it's resources for their own personal benefit. The Farmers' Rebellion resulted in the creation of the Grits ... Liberals ... who have aspired to nothing more than to get a piece of that pie for themselves. The influence of the 'compliant generations' - of whom you are clearly a member, Shady, is pretty much over. I respect them: They fought for us, for equality among peoples, for family benefits and individual rights. And it's our turn now to take the next step and take control of the economy too. Compliant under the thumb of the powerbrokers no more. Democracy only happens at election time. Constituents need to shut up until 2015. Ya really ... the best we can hope for is a repetition of past corruption. Or what? Or they'll throw us all in jail? I've alluded to this before, and I'll say it bluntly now: The demographic is this: The boomers are the powerful senior generation now, AND WE TAKE SH!T FROM NOBODY!! Not the Libs. Not the Cons. Not the banks. Not the Oil 'kings'. Respect that. -eta- Actually, we don't care if you respect it or not. It's just reality. Edited April 13, 2012 by jacee Quote
dre Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 Hmmm...100% of non-Harper luvin' Canadians voted, eh? Learn to read... That opposition represents almost 60% of Canadian voters, who will be expected to pay for 60% of the pricetag of these planes. Im pretty sure that by "voters" I meant, people who voted. And yes... 100% of the roughly 60% of people who voted for parties besides the conservatives, voted. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 They also campaigned on the F-35. Right... so moving ahead with the F-35 in an "open and transparent" manner, would have gotten two birds stoned at once. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 It's time for all Canadians to remember just how and why that democracy came into being: It's designed to keep the people quiet while the monarchy, aristocracy, and the merchant class rob the land of it's resources for their own personal benefit. Зa Родина!!! Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 Learn to read... Im pretty sure that by "voters" I meant, people who voted. And yes... 100% of the roughly 60% of people who voted for parties besides the conservatives, voted. Ooopps. Forgot that some of your gang of 4 actually registers to vote. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
jacee Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 Зa Родина!!! You are waaaaay behind the times, DoP. The 'scary communists' aren't hiding under your bed anymore. They're all capitalists now. It's the Anarchists who are coming now! They believe in this scary thing called 'direct democracy' ... like when the people tell their governments what to do (without the corruption of party dogma). You know ... like a REAL democracy! Quote
jacee Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) No, but the government has a mandate, and the squealing of the opposition shouldn't be their primary concern. Well no ... why on earth would 'the government' concern themselves with other voices. The 'voices in their head' know best. Really smallc, you've just lowered yourself beyond the depths of depravity, imo. Must I remind you "The government" isn't just the Tories. The government is Parliament and it includes the dissenting voices of the other parties and the (supposedly) 'sober second thought' of the Senate too, and the GG. The mandate of the majority party is ALWAYS limited by the will of the people. We didn't hire an all-powerful CEO: We elected a variety of members of government to represent the voices of the people ... ALL of the people. I'm beginning to wonder whether HarperCons have any true understanding of or respect for democracy at all. Actually, I know they don't. They only comprehend gaining enough power to (try to) impose their authoritarian will on the rest of us. And they only aspire to be as bad as the worst of past ruling parties ... the scandal-ridden CretLibs. No party gets a free pass to the next election. Democracy is continuous. The more they whine about that, the more obvious it becomes that they are not fit to govern because they don't even understand what that means! But that's the HarperCons problem, and it will be their demise. Edited April 13, 2012 by jacee Quote
Smallc Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 Well no ... why on earth would 'the government' concern themselves with other voices. The 'voices in their head' know best. Really smallc, you've just lowered yourself beyond the depths of depravity, imo. Why? Because I don't think that the opposition is doing a good job from their end? Must I remind you "The government" isn't just the Tories.The government is Parliament and it includes the dissenting voices of the other parties and the (supposedly) 'sober second thought' of the Senate too. That depends what we're talking about. Usually, in Canada, when we refer to the government, we're talking about the executive (cabinet) and the departments that they administer. The mandate of the majority party is ALWAYS limited by the will of the people. What is the will of the people, exactly? The people don't even know that. We have elections, members are selected, and governments are formed. Right now, the Conservatives have a majority. Deal with it. We didn't hire an all-powerful CEO: We elected a variety of members of government to represent the voices of the people ... ALL of the people. You obviously don't know how corporate business works...or a majority in a parliamentary democracy. Harper doesn't represent the people (other than those from Calgary - Southwest). He runs the executive and it's departments, and sets policy for the country, with the help of Parliament. I'm beginning to wonder whether HarperCons have any true understanding of or respect for democracy at all. Actually, I know they don't. They only comprehend gaining enough power to (try to) impose their authoritarian will on the rest of us. I'm not a 'Harper Con', so I'm not even sure who you're addressing here. No party gets a free pass to the next election. Democracy is continuous. And yet, the government can make (legal, constitutional) decisions, and there's nothing that parliament can do about it. Democracy is far more than squealing, yelling, and voting. It's about a system that creates competent stable management. The more they whine about that, the more obvious it becomes that they are not fit to govern because they don't even understand what that means! Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 13, 2012 Report Posted April 13, 2012 You are waaaaay behind the times, DoP. The 'scary communists' aren't hiding under your bed anymore. They're all capitalists now. It's the Anarchists who are coming now! They believe in this scary thing called 'direct democracy' ... like when the people tell their governments what to do (without the corruption of party dogma). You know ... like a REAL democracy! Sure thing, Comrade Secretary. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.