The_Squid Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 I just finished hauling a trailer back home from southern California. The average price I paid for diesel was about $4.40 per USG or $1.16 a liter. Diesel in Abbotsford right now is around $1.35 a liter and in the GVRD with its higher taxes it runs around 10 cents more. That isn't a huge gap in price.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 That isn't a huge gap in price.... For diesel not so much, but the spread between gasoline prices is greater. For some reason the US taxes diesel at a higher rate than gasoline. I don't get it because it drives up the cost of transporting goods by truck and discourages the use of more efficent diesel vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 For diesel not so much, but the spread between gasoline prices is greater. For some reason the US taxes diesel at a higher rate than gasoline. I don't get it because it drives up the cost of transporting goods by truck and discourages the use of more efficent diesel vehicles. The diesel industry probably just doesnt lobby as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 The diesel industry probably just doesnt lobby as well. No doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Hamilton isn't really a suburb, it's an urban centre like Toronto. Real Estate is dirt cheap there though. Well unless you live on the Mountain. I agree... But the human trafficking scumbag wasn't living under the mountain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) The diesel industry probably just doesnt lobby as well. Interestingly,I work for a freight rail car manufacturer...Even with the high dollar,we're building alot of stuff for US outfits (BNSF,TTX,etc)... One of the main reason is that the high fuel prices are starting to really hurt the trucking industry because of the cost of smaller loads for "Just In Time" delivery... Ironically,this is making shipping goods by rail more cost effective.. Edited April 5, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 There's also the issue of property size: the bigger each lot is around you, the farther away everything gets from your house, requiring more fuel to get anywhere. (Not to mention the required increased size and scope of infrastructure - roads, water and sanitary lines, storm sewers, etc.) I guess using that land to grow your own fuel would at least be a better use of it than what it's mostly used for now: decoration. Not really. Just because something grows out of the ground doesn't mean it's free or non-destructive. Growing and harvesting a crop means you're using fertilizer, soil, and water in far far larger quantities than if you had a decorative backyard. Just like oil, those are all finite resources, which take energy to produce and transport. The stuff you take out of the ground comes from somewhere, whether it's been fossilized for a million years or just grew over the last few months. Biomass fuels are not inherently any cleaner than fossil fuels. In fact, biomass fuels are often much less efficient for the amount of material that you've actually taken out of the ground, and the energy and water taken to produce it. Furthermore, allotting more farmland to biomass means you need more total farmland to still produce all the needed food as well. That means cutting down more forests, and deforestation is a major environmental concern as well. If one actually looks at the whole life-cycle of the fuel, the idea of ethanol/biomass fuels, and subsidizing them, is one of the most environmentally AND economically idiotic ideas possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Not really. Just because something grows out of the ground doesn't mean it's free or non-destructive. Growing and harvesting a crop means you're using fertilizer, soil, and water in far far larger quantities than if you had a decorative backyard. Just like oil, those are all finite resources, which take energy to produce and transport. The stuff you take out of the ground comes from somewhere, whether it's been fossilized for a million years or just grew over the last few months. Biomass fuels are not inherently any cleaner than fossil fuels. In fact, biomass fuels are often much less efficient for the amount of material that you've actually taken out of the ground, and the energy and water taken to produce it. Furthermore, allotting more farmland to biomass means you need more total farmland to still produce all the needed food as well. That means cutting down more forests, and deforestation is a major environmental concern as well. If one actually looks at the whole life-cycle of the fuel, the idea of ethanol/biomass fuels, and subsidizing them, is one of the most environmentally AND economically idiotic ideas possible. All to many are unaware of that except those that have a corn food base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Weber Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 All to many are unaware of that except those that have a corn food base. Bourbon has a corn food base... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Not really. I think you need to read again what I wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 I think you need to read again what I wrote. "Not really" was in regards to your statement that people growing their own crops to make into biomass fuels would be a better use than a decorative backyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 "Not really" was in regards to your statement that people growing their own crops to make into biomass fuels would be a better use than a decorative backyard. Well, then, I disagree. Decorative lawns and surrounding shrubbery take up space, require pesticides, fertilisers, water, etc., as well, yet, produce nothing usable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewTeddy Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 I also support land being used for productive reasons rather than being "nice to look at" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huh Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Using farmland to grow fuel is incredibly stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Well, then, I disagree. Decorative lawns and surrounding shrubbery take up space, require pesticides, fertilisers, water, etc., as well, yet, produce nothing usable. They take far far less fertilizer and water than if you were growing a crop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 I also support land being used for productive reasons rather than being "nice to look at" If you want productivity, plant a vegetable garden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 If you want productivity, plant a vegetable garden. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 That would depend on how much grass you have to cut. It takes me a hair under 4 hours to cut it all on the Deere, 54 inch deck. Topography also enters into the equation. Do you know why now? Jerry, now we all know what you do in your spare time. We just don't know why. I've generated a few theories - maybe you can tell me which one is correct. * You come from Bountiful, BC. You have 25 wives and 600 children. So, obviously your family needs room to play. * Your hobby is bocce but not the normal way. You prefer to shoot the balls from catapults to give the game that authentic ancient Roman empire feel. * You own a herd of 400 goats of the genus delicutaneous, known for their dainty feet. Clearly, you can't make them run around on untrimmed grass. All right, I give up. I don't know what the hell you do on all that lawn. I do know that if you drive through the Creston, BC area, you'll see acreages occupied by transplanted retired farmers. I suppose they miss home because they've sawed down all of the forest and planted acre after acre of lawn. The lawn is beautiful because nobody ever uses it for anything. Looking after it does keep them something to do, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleClassCentrist Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 That would depend on how much grass you have to cut. It takes me a hair under 4 hours to cut it all on the Deere, 54 inch deck. Topography also enters into the equation. Do you know why now? I was referencing the average suburb property. The majority of people don't need a gas mower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 I found an article putting a different spin on the rising price of gas. It`s not the Middle-East, Libya, its closer to home... the Federal Reserve. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=30018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKER Posted April 7, 2012 Report Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) Biomass fuels are not inherently any cleaner than fossil fuels. In fact, biomass fuels are often much less efficient for the amount of material that you've actually taken out of the ground, and the energy and water taken to produce it. The food cycle is relatively renewable if managed properly. Nightsoil (that is human feces) acts as fertilizer, likewise if bodies remains are left to decompose in the soil or ground down then pretty much 100% of the cycle is maintained. Urine also is a natural fertilizer. Animals such as humans are walking garden aids. Aide from this there are many other resources. The one element however that is a challenge for Canada is keeping soils from becoming too acidic for a variety of crops, this is why lime or poultry is an element that ought to be included to keep soils healthy. Lime is not local to all areas, and those areas without lime need to invest in poultry in addition. Groups like "HEN" are good examples of community endevours to get chicken and bird breeding into urban areas as well as areas without traditional poultry farms. For the cost of a few pullets you can have a steady supply of eggs you can feed off your self grown millet and other grains, which can in turn have their non-fertilized eggs be used to lower the acidity of northern soils. When the chickens / hens die of natural causes you then have a meal worth more than your original investment in the pullet, and he grains you feed them in their life give you free eggs in the morning. There are many other natural fertilizers, nothing needs to be bought to manage a garden. It just needs to be managed properly. While at first it seems a put off, if handled properly it reduces costs in many ways. The key is to reduce costs by being self provisioning, being self dependent, rather than depending on other people and organizations. people need to buy very little, most expenditures are just luxury buy ins for various goods that harm the enviornment. Landis the one resource people are forced to buy, if you don't have an acre or so, or you hunt etc.. then it can be difficult to provide for an entire family, but there are tons of available food sources out there. People just arn't willing to spend the time doing it their own, because making clothes etc.. from hemp or other products isn't in their intersts, they'd rather work for an hour and get it premade. The challenge is in not complaining about the costs of goods you buy rather than make because it take a lot of input to build - and very few people live in cottage industries these days. Oh and that isn't entirely true about being forced to buy land. It is just more secure to buy land. Crown land canbe occupied for three weeks at any one location. so technically if you moved to about 18 different sites over the year you could live free and enjoy a hunter gatherer lifestyle. Most people couldn't handle that in the winter though in areas where crown lands exist. The summer is much easier but without all year green houses growing food up here is difficult. There are thingslike growing mushrooms and other winter crops that can be grown - not to mention edible trees, saps, and evergreen products. i think most people prefer a nice warm cabin to fall back on with their Tv∨ internet fireplace, family etc.. Fact is though it is possible, it just isn't the lifestyle people want. Only communism can provide products at no cost, because the people own the production and benefits of production. this is capitalism though - capitalists get only a share that is mutually agreed for their labours. Communism is a social contract, capitalism is a performance contract. It costs only a few hundred dollars to live legally in Canada - if one gets a legal hunters/game license Canada does have some form of social safety net, but even ontario OW is a workfare program, not bump dole. Disabled people though do not have a workfare requirement. So it is disability programs are the last remnants of communist social system in Canada. For northern Canadians in areas of clay acidics these two links will hopefully be useful. Nightsoil must be worked properly to avoid food supply contamination. http://www.canadianliving.com/life/green_living/home_fresh_eggs_how_to_raise_chickens_in_your_backyard.php For the north it is important to note the possible usages of bog peats and fish remains. Very very rich soil compositions can be obtained through use of eggshells from poultry, growing grains, fish remains (which could if it wasn't illegal be causght easil with netting and nightlights) (in a managed fishery) Many Canadian communities could be very self sustaining and less dependent on costly food imports if they were managed properly, including use of northern greenhouses (greenhouse studies for winterized areas have been done in various places including studies out of montreal) Other things that are highly underutilized is norse housing which would reduce heat loss and insulate via mound houseing, and underground housing. The culture in Canada is not optimal for efficiency of the environment but it is good enough right. Canada has tons of resources. But there is a major issue in loosing control of all the companies that supply your means of life and relying on imports. Autarky is the only way of insuring relative stability. we should all learn from the dangers of Athens in relying on a supply route for survival. Edited April 7, 2012 by MACKER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peeves Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I found an article putting a different spin on the rising price of gas. It`s not the Middle-East, Libya, its closer to home... the Federal Reserve. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=30018 It's many things, but it is certainly related to playing with the stock market. I do not believe there's a current shortage of gas or oil. Follow the money. The answer is that the price of oil Americans see every day has little to do with the price of gasoline at the pump.Those prices are for a particular type of oil -- West Texas Intermediate -- that's stored in Cushing, Okla. Thanks to increasing supplies from the Rocky Mountain states and Canada's oil sands, plus a lack of pipelines to move that oil out, there's currently a big glut of oil in Cushing. That's pushing the price of West Texas crude down. http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/21/markets/oil_gas_prices/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 It's many things, but it is certainly related to playing with the stock market. I do not believe there's a current shortage of gas or oil. Follow the money. http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/21/markets/oil_gas_prices/index.htm Nope, theres no shortage. Most oil producing countries arent even running near full capacity. But the oil futures market is now part of the big financial casino. If only refineries and companies that really purchase oil were allowed to buy these futures prices would be a lot more stable. Same goes for realestate, etc. Just a garden variety bubble inflated by central banks making credit too cheap and easy, and investors then using that money to bid up the prices of commodities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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