Why conservatives want tougher laws and less immigration

[Argus]

Some time ago there was a news in Ireland that the word "bogus" will be banned in context of asylum applications. It was said that the word was disparaging.

Ireland is a bankrupt country whose citizens long to leave. It's not as idiotic as the English with their absurd and anti-demmocratic laws which basically put people in prison for saying anything offensive, but it's getting there.

[Argus]

No - but my question stands. How and why would you keep people like him out of Canada ?

For example, is your point that Somalis are murders ? If not then what ?

Here's a better question. Why would you want to bring people like him INTO Canada?

What possible contribution do you imagine he could make? Uneducated, illiterate, and coming from one of the most violent and morally depraved cultures on the planet.

[g_bambino]

While it doesn't state as much in this story in others he is identified as a Somalian refugee.

Yes, I just saw that in the headline of the Sun article.

A refugee is something different to an immigrant, though. None go through the more rigorous checks that immigrants (who go through the proper channels) do; there isn't the time, I suppose, when the reason the person has arrived in Canada is to flee some dangerous situation (in theory, anyway).

[cybercoma]

Roma refugees ARE a recognized problem here. Do you dispute that fact?

You need to look up the difference between a fact and an opinion.

[cybercoma]

Far too many of those we allow into this country are savages

For someone that's so smart, you dive head-first into hyperbole when it comes to any discussion about immigration. I would ask you what proportion of immigrants are "savages" and how you define savage, but I know it's pointless. You'll just say "even 1 savage is too many," then either make a definition of savage that's so broad it's meaningless, or come up with an agreeable definition, but ignore the fact that hardly any immigrants fit it.

[bleeding heart]

Do conservatives judge certain immigrants differently than others? You're damned right we do. We judge the failures differantly. That's because, unlike liberals, we actually have standards.

By the way, some of the 911 bombers enjoyed themselves at a strip club the night before running an airplane into the world trade center in the name of "Allah".

Yeah....those guys sure show us the high standards self-imposed by conservatives, don't they?

[Wild Bill]

Same old, same old. Someone writes an opening post about an immigrant committing a horrendous crime, which highlights the laxity of our refugee system. With the humongous backlog of cases to process it's unlikely there is ANY vetting of such immigrants! Mathematically, it's like trying to count the grains of sand in a bucket when you have only 8 hours a day to do it.

That's not what I find so "samey", however. Rather, it's the fact that for the next few pages of posts not a single one of those against Angus' point said a word about the victim!

What a cold-hearted group, indeed! Worse yet, this is the way it always seems to go.

This is another example of the hypocrisy of many on the left, who claim to care so much about their fellow man!

[cybercoma]

Same old, same old. Someone writes an opening post about an immigrant committing a horrendous crime, which highlights the laxity of our refugee system.

What does the Tori Stafford case highlight?

[Guest Derek L]

What does the Tori Stafford case highlight?

A justification for the needle?

[cybercoma]

A justification for the needle?

That's not exactly equivalent to this case highlighting the "laxity of the refugee system" that lets "far too many savages" into this country.

[Guest Derek L]

That's not exactly equivalent to this case highlighting the "laxity of the refugee system" that lets "far too many savages" into this country.

I’m confused, why did you bring up the Tori Stafford case then?

[waldo]

Same old, same old. Someone writes an opening post about an immigrant committing a horrendous crime, which highlights the laxity of our refugee system.

no, the agenda driven OP presumes upon an outright failure of the refugee system... I've read that the (refugee) family has assimilated quite well and that 4 of the offenders brothers/sisters are attending Canadian universities.

[dre]

There are a variety of reasons why I am opposed to our current immigration system. But you can sum most of them up by the term "barbarians over the walls" I used in my OP. Far too many of those we allow into this country are savages we should be keeping far from our shores. I'm not denying we have brutal home-grown criminals. But we selected this guy and allowed him in. That makes it different. That makes it something we can do something about before he kills someone.

Do conservatives judge certain immigrants differently than others? You're damned right we do. We judge the failures differantly. That's because, unlike liberals, we actually have standards.

By the way, some of the 911 bombers enjoyed themselves at a strip club the night before running an airplane into the world trade center in the name of "Allah".

Far too many of those we allow into this country are savages we should be keeping far from our shores.

So do you have some evidence to show these people commit crimes in higher numbers than native born Canadians?

[bleeding heart]

That's not what I find so "samey", however. Rather, it's the fact that for the next few pages of posts not a single one of those against Angus' point said a word about the victim!

Yep. If people don't agree with Argus, it means they don't care about victims.

What a cold-hearted group, indeed! Worse yet, this is the way it always seems to go.

This is another example of the hypocrisy of many on the left, who claim to care so much about their fellow man!

Well, as everyone knows, there is no hypocrisy on the Right...who are also famous for their compassion and warm-hearted approach to political discussion.

Edited April 2, 2012 by bleeding heart

[Signals.Cpl]

How would one distinguish Canadians of Convenience from say someone who immigrates to Canada, stays 5-6 years and gets a job with a Canadian Company to be a representative in their home country for example.

What Canada needs is an easy way to remove people who obviously don't want to be Canadians. For example people like the Khadr family most of whom had in one way or another fought against Canada and our allies, and when one of their sons was paralyzed in Pakistan while in a terrorist safe house they decide to bring him to Canada so he can get health care. Honestly if you want quality immigrants fine improve the standards, there are enough qualified immigrants to meet the criteria. But also make a way to throw away the garbage, make a point that a Canadian Passport does not guarantee sating in Canada if an immigrant/refugee decides to live a life of crime.

[cybercoma]

How would one distinguish Canadians of Convenience from say someone who immigrates to Canada, stays 5-6 years and gets a job with a Canadian Company to be a representative in their home country for example.

What Canada needs is an easy way to remove people who obviously don't want to be Canadians. For example people like the Khadr family most of whom had in one way or another fought against Canada and our allies, and when one of their sons was paralyzed in Pakistan while in a terrorist safe house they decide to bring him to Canada so he can get health care. Honestly if you want quality immigrants fine improve the standards, there are enough qualified immigrants to meet the criteria. But also make a way to throw away the garbage, make a point that a Canadian Passport does not guarantee sating in Canada if an immigrant/refugee decides to live a life of crime.

If you're out of the country for any longer than 6 months (duration depending on your province), you need to wait 3-6 months (again, duration depending on your province) to get healthcare coverage. The only exception is refugees that have sustained injuries in war-torn areas or fleeing dangerous situations. We provide healthcare for them for humanitarian reasons. So can you explain what "Canadians of convenience" are?

[Michael Hardner]

Do conservatives judge certain immigrants differently than others? You're damned right we do. We judge the failures differantly. That's because, unlike liberals, we actually have standards.

The question was about "certain immigrants" different than "others" - i.e. other immigrants.

By the way, some of the 911 bombers enjoyed themselves at a strip club the night before running an airplane into the world trade center in the name of "Allah".

That's completely beside the point. My point is that people who oppose Muslim immigration do so on the basis that that religion's adherents are inflexible and will never loosen their ties to their religion. As such, this example disproves that theory.

The 9/11 terrorists were ostensibly supposed to be deceiving others with this behavior weren't they ?

[Michael Hardner]

Here's a better question. Why would you want to bring people like him INTO Canada?

"like him" meaning what ? Immigrants ?

It all goes back to my question - how do you keep people like him (potential murderers) out of Canada ? More to the point, even: what do we need to do that we're NOT doing now.

What possible contribution do you imagine he could make? Uneducated, illiterate, and coming from one of the most violent and morally depraved cultures on the planet.

Why don't you post the details of this case as you know them ?

[Wild Bill]

Yep. If people don't agree with Argus, it means they don't care about victims.

Well, as everyone knows, there is no hypocrisy on the Right...who are also famous for their compassion and warm-hearted approach to political discussion.

Hey, I don't expect everyone to agree with Angus. I don't always agree with him either. It's just that none of the critics said ANYTHING about the victim!

Not a "Poor guy!" or "What a tragedy." or even a "He could kiss my ass!"

It's like to some the victim is not relevant in any way. Not worth a footnote. Attacking a conservative for his position is far more important.

As for "hypocrisy on the Right", what the hell kind of answer is that? "Don't be mad at me, Mom! My brother did it too!"

It's hardly a "either/or" situation. I never believed, mentioned or even implied that leftist hypocrisy excused the same on the right.

Is that your position?

Edited April 2, 2012 by Wild Bill

[Moonbox]

The only way conservatives will ever fully realize their deepest desires is to round up all the un-conservatives and bury them in a great big hole.

You know you wanna, but first you need to get out of your Momma's basements.

eyeball why would you even bother posting garbage like this? I think the thread title and topic are pretty specific. We're discussing our BS immigration system. Hack-responses like this trash you just posted here are the types of things that are dumbing this forum down to nothing. Yes, there are lots of hack-conservatives on this forum. There are a lot of hack NDP'ers and even Liberals too. Don't feed into it with inane posts like this. That's so dumb and you're smarter than that.

[Michael Hardner]

Hey, I don't expect everyone to agree with Angus. I don't always agree with him either. It's just that none of the critics said ANYTHING about the victim!

That's probably because this thread is about policy, not about sympathizing with victims of crime.

Start a thread that describes these victims if you like.

[bleeding heart]

Hey, I don't expect everyone to agree with Angus. I don't always agree with him either. It's just that none of the critics said ANYTHING about the victim!

And?

It's like to some the victim is not relevant in any way.

I've yet to see any evidence that the victim is relevant to you in any way, Bill...beyond using the dead body as a club to explain to us what hypocrites we are.

Not worth a footnote. Attacking a conservative for his position is far more important.

Yes, speaking of victims; more right-wing victimology complexes. Since Harper got into poower, it's hilariously gotten worse, I think!

It's hardly a "either/or" situation. I never believed, mentioned or even implied that leftist hypocrisy excused the same on the right.

You certainly implied it. The implication is the premise of your post itself! Good grief.

Is that your position?

My position is only that I was responding directly to specific charges you made.

For example, since none of us had anything to say about the victim Argus mentioned, and that illustrates that "the left" can be very "hypocritical"...you are implying, quite clearly, that those not on this sinister "left" would have been hanging their heads and sobbing at Argus's touching words [sic].

Which is nonsense...

....as you know very well.

Your remarks about "the left," while not achieving the full-blown lunacy of, say, August's ruminations on the same subject, are nonetheless nothing more than highly politicized sniping, and with no substance at all.

[eyeball]

eyeball why would you even bother posting garbage like this? I think the thread title and topic are pretty specific. We're discussing our BS immigration system. Hack-responses like this trash you just posted here are the types of things that are dumbing this forum down to nothing. Yes, there are lots of hack-conservatives on this forum. There are a lot of hack NDP'ers and even Liberals too. Don't feed into it with inane posts like this. That's so dumb and you're smarter than that.

I guess the thread topic and title seemed more typical of the garbage that's dumbed things down.

You may still have a capacity to suffer this crap gladly but I'm finding that harder to do all the time. I was just trying lighten things up with a smart-assed crack and you probably just got up on the wrong side of bed.

[Tilter]

Yeah....those guys sure show us the high standards self-imposed by conservatives, don't they?

Do you actually remember the party in power in Canada in 2001?

[Guest Peeves]

You need to look up the difference between a fact and an opinion.

The reference I posted re Kenny's comments was factual.

My opinion was based on a factual report.

You quibble like a picayune pissant.

meant in the nicest way of curse.