Boges Posted March 22, 2012 Report Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) We have posters on here going insane about a potential elections scandal where there is no concrete proof that what went wrong goes any further than the riding of Guelph. Well how about the Ontario government and ORNGE? This is the second time this government has shown an absolute disregard for taxpayer money on the Health file. It's no wonder the health system is a mess when money is spent like this. Ontario's Liberal government allowed senior public servants and board members of air ambulance service Ornge to become owners of private, for-profit subsidiaries, then failed to find out just how much those public servants were pocketing, Ontario's Auditor General Jim McCarter said Wednesday.In a special report, McCarter highlighted a series of questionable dealings and financial improprieties at Ornge, which, under its charismatic former leader, Dr. Chris Mazza, spawned a complex web of not-for-profit and for-profit companies that did much of their business beyond the oversight of provincial authorities. The report's findings, along with an ongoing criminal probe, make Ornge the biggest scandal the Dalton McGuinty-led Liberals have faced since spending revelations at eHealth Ontario. McCarter said executives at Ornge perpetuated a "real culture of fear and intimidation" over employees as they created an empire built on $1 billion in government funding and loans. "What began in 2006 as a not-for-profit company providing ambulance services became a 'mini-conglomerate,' " McCarter told reporters. "Of particular concern was that certain of these companies were owned by Ornge's president, members of the senior management team and the board of directors. To the nose of this watchdog, this just didn't pass the old smell test." McCarter found, for example, that Ornge purchased its headquarters in suburban Toronto for $15 million, sold it to a subsidiary, then leased it back to itself at rates 40 per cent above market value. Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Ornge+empire+failed+smell+test+auditor+says/6339715/story.html#ixzz1primxbTD This government wants to claw back $350 million or so that goes to creating jobs but it'll allow a billion dollars to go down the drain. Absolute hypocrisy! Edited March 22, 2012 by Boges Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 22, 2012 Report Posted March 22, 2012 It's no wonder the health system is a mess when money is spent like this. Agreed. However there's something you're missing... First, this: Absolute hypocrisy! No. You can't call people hypocrites for not noticing certain types of scandals, i.e. money scandals or really any kind of scandal that makes the eyelids go heavy as you read past the first paragraph. eHealth wasted tons of money BEFORE the scandal arose, it seems. Nobody said anything until a high-earning consultant expensed a tea and muffin ! You're lamenting human nature - that politics is driven by what people are interested in... as reflected through mass media. Would you like to go back to, say, 1960 to 1964 when the printed word was king and television coverage of elections was quite staid compared to today ? Here's a warning, though, if you make politics into a dry and facts-based endeavor then the academics move in, and the outrage queens (Rush Limbaugh, David Horowitz, Michael Savage, Glenn Beck) move out... with them goes the Tea Party and the perpetual flame of outrage that they guard... Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
stopstaaron Posted March 22, 2012 Report Posted March 22, 2012 This government wants to claw back $350 million or so that goes to creating jobs but it'll allow a billion dollars to go down the drain. Absolute hypocrisy! I don't see how the math adds up to a billion dollars in the article.. maybe I am missing some figures here.. Quote Don't ban me bro. Oh behave, I'll behave. I'll be a good little boy.
Wild Bill Posted March 22, 2012 Report Posted March 22, 2012 It IS disgusting! The Minister SHOULD resign! However, the days of Ministers resigning to preserve the appearance of integrity in their government are sadly, long gone. What's more, McGuinty's government seems to have successfully conditioned the Ontario electorate to consider such incompetence to be NORMAL! No one is shocked anymore - not even surprised! I think we have gotten long past the point where most people think there's any point to outrage. Government is no longer thought of as something driven by intelligence, that you can talk to and influence. Rather, it is an elemental force, like the weather. This scandal may be a hurricane but what's the point of yelling at a hurricane? Might as well try to tell the tide to hold back! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Boges Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Posted March 22, 2012 It IS disgusting! The Minister SHOULD resign! However, the days of Ministers resigning to preserve the appearance of integrity in their government are sadly, long gone. What's more, McGuinty's government seems to have successfully conditioned the Ontario electorate to consider such incompetence to be NORMAL! No one is shocked anymore - not even surprised! I think we have gotten long past the point where most people think there's any point to outrage. Government is no longer thought of as something driven by intelligence, that you can talk to and influence. Rather, it is an elemental force, like the weather. This scandal may be a hurricane but what's the point of yelling at a hurricane? Might as well try to tell the tide to hold back! I don't know about that, people are doing a pretty good job acting all outraged in the Robo-call thread. Over 100 pages worth of it. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 22, 2012 Report Posted March 22, 2012 I don't know about that, people are doing a pretty good job acting all outraged in the Robo-call thread. Over 100 pages worth of it. Yeah..'Cause the potential rigging of an election is'nt worth talking about... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Boges Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Yeah..'Cause the potential rigging of an election is'nt worth talking about... Still no evidence to support that theory a month in. Edited March 22, 2012 by Boges Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 22, 2012 Report Posted March 22, 2012 Still no evidence to support that theory a month in. The investigation continues... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
stopstaaron Posted March 22, 2012 Report Posted March 22, 2012 Maybe if the PCs didn't look like the GOP last election they'd have beaten the liberals this says more about the PC party than it does liberals Quote Don't ban me bro. Oh behave, I'll behave. I'll be a good little boy.
Boges Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Posted March 22, 2012 The investigation continues... As opposed to this situation where we have evidence that a government organization was wasting bucket loads of taxpayer money on silly things like Motorcycles, doing real estate deals and buying Helicopters that were never supposed to be used to transport patients. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 22, 2012 Report Posted March 22, 2012 As opposed to this situation where we have evidence that a government organization was wasting bucket loads of taxpayer money on silly things like Motorcycles, doing real estate deals and buying Helicopters that were never supposed to be used to transport patients. I did'nt say it was'nt... You did,however,belittle those who might want to discuss the potential rigging of an election AND the usurping of democracy in this country by your boys in Ottawa... You can go back to your personal quest for Wine Tasting Tim... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
stopstaaron Posted March 22, 2012 Report Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Note to PC supporters in Ontario.. if your party is against homosexuals, abortion, openly religious, YOU WILL NOT BE THE GOVERNMENT no matter how dirty the liberals are time to reshape your party principles join the year 2012 Edited March 22, 2012 by stopstaaron Quote Don't ban me bro. Oh behave, I'll behave. I'll be a good little boy.
Boges Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Posted March 22, 2012 I did'nt say it was'nt... You did,however,belittle those who might want to discuss the potential rigging of an election AND the usurping of democracy in this country by your boys in Ottawa... You can go back to your personal quest for Wine Tasting Tim... I just think this is a far more significant problem. BTW that Wine Tasting blast went over my head. Quote
Jack Weber Posted March 22, 2012 Report Posted March 22, 2012 I just think this is a far more significant problem. BTW that Wine Tasting blast went over my head. I disagree...And I'm not shocked it went over your head... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wild Bill Posted March 23, 2012 Report Posted March 23, 2012 Note to PC supporters in Ontario.. if your party is against homosexuals, abortion, openly religious, YOU WILL NOT BE THE GOVERNMENT no matter how dirty the liberals are time to reshape your party principles join the year 2012 You really do like making cartoons with straw men, don't you? I vote PC in Ontario. I have no problem with my gay friends, except for some of them and their taste in music. No problem with a women's right to choose, either. As for religion, as a devout agnostic I favour the Flying Spaghetti Monster as the creator of the Universe. Now, I guess if you like symbolism over substance, think guilt or innocence depends on belonging to the political stripe YOU favour, think you can create an entire windmill turbine and solar cell industry by rigging the market and are so unscientific you think that if there's not enough electricity we should all install more outlets in our walls, then you must be a Liberal Voter! There! I can make straw men too! Isn't my reasoning just as good as yours? Give me a flippin' break! No wonder the Chinese are cleaning our clocks... Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Topaz Posted March 23, 2012 Report Posted March 23, 2012 Well, correct me if I'm wrong but when its comes to the provincial election, the GTO has the power of who is seating in government. Besides, the NDP are in control and we'll just have to wait till the budget to see what the NDP-Liberal government will do. Quote
stopstaaron Posted March 23, 2012 Report Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) You really do like making cartoons with straw men, don't you? I vote PC in Ontario. I have no problem with my gay friends, except for some of them and their taste in music. No problem with a women's right to choose, either. As for religion, as a devout agnostic I favour the Flying Spaghetti Monster as the creator of the Universe. Now, I guess if you like symbolism over substance, think guilt or innocence depends on belonging to the political stripe YOU favour, think you can create an entire windmill turbine and solar cell industry by rigging the market and are so unscientific you think that if there's not enough electricity we should all install more outlets in our walls, then you must be a Liberal Voter! There! I can make straw men too! Isn't my reasoning just as good as yours? Give me a flippin' break! No wonder the Chinese are cleaning our clocks... No straw man was made.. just going by your dear leader Tim Hudak and what he said and what his views are .. plus he was sponsored by Rob Ford that was the death blow btw, it's not your political views that matter when u vote for a party, its the leader of the party whom youre voting for views that matter Edited March 23, 2012 by stopstaaron Quote Don't ban me bro. Oh behave, I'll behave. I'll be a good little boy.
Boges Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Posted March 23, 2012 Note to PC supporters in Ontario.. if your party is against homosexuals, abortion, openly religious, YOU WILL NOT BE THE GOVERNMENT no matter how dirty the liberals are time to reshape your party principles join the year 2012 Please cite examples in the 2011 election where the PC's brought any of those things into the public discourse. The PCs only got beat by popular vote to the Liberals by two percentage points. With ORNGE and the Liberals OLG plans as campaign fuel I doubt the Liberals would have as much luck this time around. Quote
Boges Posted March 23, 2012 Author Report Posted March 23, 2012 NDP-Liberal government They formed a coalition? when? The NDP do hold the balance of power and might get the whole corporate tax cute thing reverses. The Liberals fate will be held on how they are willing to compromise because I think there will be things in this budget that will be unacceptable to the public. Quote
Wild Bill Posted March 23, 2012 Report Posted March 23, 2012 No straw man was made.. just going by your dear leader Tim Hudak and what he said and what his views are .. plus he was sponsored by Rob Ford that was the death blow btw, it's not your political views that matter when u vote for a party, its the leader of the party whom youre voting for views that matter I suppose, but again I can only speak for myself. I can't vote for the other two parties BECAUSE of my political views! And I'm not a conservative! I just can't vote for a party that has even more boneheads in it than the Tories! And I agree that's not saying much! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
stopstaaron Posted March 23, 2012 Report Posted March 23, 2012 I suppose, but again I can only speak for myself. I can't vote for the other two parties BECAUSE of my political views! And I'm not a conservative! I just can't vote for a party that has even more boneheads in it than the Tories! And I agree that's not saying much! What it came down to was the people could stomach another term of Dalton Mcliar than elect the PC's with a leader like Tim Hudak... that was their election to win and they didn't...in fact McGuinty won with an almost majority.. 1 seat away.. and then what do the PCs do? They allow Hudak to remain the leader!! unbelievable With a nut like Hudak as leader the PCs are going to lose the next election too Quote Don't ban me bro. Oh behave, I'll behave. I'll be a good little boy.
PIK Posted March 26, 2012 Report Posted March 26, 2012 What it came down to was the people could stomach another term of Dalton Mcliar than elect the PC's with a leader like Tim Hudak... that was their election to win and they didn't...in fact McGuinty won with an almost majority.. 1 seat away.. and then what do the PCs do? They allow Hudak to remain the leader!! unbelievable With a nut like Hudak as leader the PCs are going to lose the next election too Only the idiots in TO is what kept dalton in power. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Boges Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Posted March 26, 2012 What it came down to was the people could stomach another term of Dalton Mcliar than elect the PC's with a leader like Tim Hudak... that was their election to win and they didn't...in fact McGuinty won with an almost majority.. 1 seat away.. and then what do the PCs do? They allow Hudak to remain the leader!! unbelievable With a nut like Hudak as leader the PCs are going to lose the next election too McGuinty lost the 1999 election and the Liberals gave him a second chance. I think tomorrow's budget will show Ontario how reckless McDalton actually is. I can see another election within the next year. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 26, 2012 Report Posted March 26, 2012 Only the idiots in TO is what kept dalton in power. [sarcasm]That's right. Toronto is a city of idiots. [/sarcasm] This is an altogether new kind of conspiracy theory. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Jack Weber Posted March 26, 2012 Report Posted March 26, 2012 [sarcasm]That's right. Toronto is a city of idiots. [/sarcasm] This is an altogether new kind of conspiracy theory. How much ya' wanna bet ol' PIK thinks Rob Ford is just neato? Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
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