Here we go again...Tory attacks ads.

Shakeyhands · March 22, 2012

It seems to me the liberals are worried big time about the ads on rae, I wonder why? lol

Not at all, I think it looks bad on the CPC.

Newfoundlander · March 22, 2012

Not at all, I think it looks bad on the CPC.

A lot of people didn't think it looked good on the Conservatives when they "attacked" Michael Ignatieff, but it worked.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Newfoundlander

PIK · March 22, 2012

Not at all, I think it looks bad on the CPC.

Not at all, what they are doing is forcing rae's hand , are you going to break your promise not to run ?? Edited March 22, 2012 by PIK

CPCFTW · March 22, 2012

No the argument started from a comment #54 that Topaz made in regards to unemployment and it stemmed out into an argument over definition(which by the way I still do not agree with yours)or something like that and this is now a classic example of thread drift which I do not condone so somehow I must gracefully step away from this argument.

However this mathematical argument might be a good thread for the off topic issues,we can continue this there if you wish.

Aswell its almost convention time and I must prioritize my time and I should not be spending so much here!

WWWTT

This argument stemmed from you saying "most" is a quantitative adjective/adverb and me saying that a rate is also a quantitative measurement.

If someone asks you "what was the most unemployment in Canada?" The natural response would be to offer the unemployment rate, not the number of unemployed canadians.

A percentage being a quantitative measurement is a fact. It is not cybercoma's "definition". You can't disagree with a fact. The earth is round and a percentage is a quantitative measurement whether you agree or not.

In the context of Topaz's post deriding Harper, it makes absolutely no sense to interpret it as the number of unemployed Canadians. That would be like me saying Clinton was a horrible leader because there were more unemployed Americans while he was president than during the Great Depression. Unemployment rates are used for comparibility of different populations and through time.

Cybercoma has me blocked and he is even arguing on my side. That is when you know it is time to admit you were wrong.

Edited March 22, 2012 by CPCFTW

Shakeyhands · March 22, 2012

Not at all, what they are doing is forcing rae's hand , are you going to break your promise not to run ??

No, it really looks bad on the CPC. Really.

As far as broken promises go, when will you start a thread on Openness and Accountability?

stopstaaron · March 22, 2012

No, it really looks bad on the CPC. Really.

As far as broken promises go, when will you start a thread on Openness and Accountability?

the more canadians see these ads the more theyre going to start getting annoyed by them

Bryan · March 22, 2012

No, it really looks bad on the CPC. Really.

If there was anything that was torqued or sensationalized int he ads, you might have a point. There are two ads. One is a matter of fact list of how badly Rae managed a fairly mild recession, the other is an account of how well our current government is handling one of the worst recession of all time.

As far as broken promises go, when will you start a thread on Openness and Accountability?

We do have the most open and accountable government we've ever had.

Jack Weber · March 22, 2012

We do have the most open and accountable government we've ever had.

He says as he prepares to scratch anther cheque...

:rolleyes: :lol:

No cred,dude...

cybercoma · March 22, 2012

Do you agree or disagree with the Liberals having Bob Rae billboards or the NDP having ads on the gun registry?

I disagree with the Bob Rae billboards outside of an election cycle. I agree with information about bills being debated in the House or Senate, however. The Tory ad about Bob Rae and the Liberal ads about Bob Rae are not information about current legislative debates or issues.

cybercoma · March 22, 2012

A lot of people didn't think it looked good on the Conservatives when they "attacked" Michael Ignatieff, but it worked.

On the contrary, it was the NDP that killed Ignatieff with this:

Following the release of that ad, the Liberals numbers began dropping like a rock. Unfortunately, some of the vote went to the CPC, while the increased strength of the NDP split the vote in a number of ridings. It was the NDP's ad campaign that destroyed the Liberals, which unfortunately gave the Conservatives the majority.

Bryan · March 22, 2012

He says as he prepares to scratch anther cheque...

The good job they are doing is the reason why I'm writing that cheque. I'm under no obligation to do so. I've changed political parties before, I'm sure it could happen again.

capricorn · March 23, 2012

The good job they are doing is the reason why I'm writing that cheque. I'm under no obligation to do so. I've changed political parties before, I'm sure it could happen again.

Yeah, although I support the Conservatives now, who knows down the road. Mind you, if I switched to the Liberals I'm not sure I would send in money to the party. In the past, the Liberal party has shown an uncanny knack at finding sources of money other than from the party's supporters.

Bryan · March 23, 2012

Yeah, although I support the Conservatives now, who knows down the road. Mind you, if I switched to the Liberals I'm not sure I would send in money to the party. In the past, the Liberal party has shown an uncanny knack at finding sources of money other than from the party's supporters.

I changed FROM the Liberals before, I'm not sure what it would take for me to ever go back, but it would have to be pretty big.

capricorn · March 23, 2012

I changed FROM the Liberals before, I'm not sure what it would take for me to ever go back, but it would have to be pretty big.

I don't like the alternatives as it stands now. And if the NDP ever formed government, I'll move into a remote cabin in the back country somewhere to die a peaceful death.

March 23, 2012

I don't like the alternatives as it stands now. And if the NDP ever formed government, I'll move into a remote cabin in the back country somewhere to die a peaceful death.

You have a “NDP forms Government contingency plan” also? I prefer to refer to my families vacation property as the “compound” , with said structure listed as the “bunker”….

Edited March 23, 2012 by Derek L

stopstaaron · March 23, 2012

I don't like the alternatives as it stands now. And if the NDP ever formed government, I'll move into a remote cabin in the back country somewhere to die a peaceful death.

NDP is for legalizing assisted suicide so you will be allowed to legally do it!

Newfoundlander · March 23, 2012

I disagree with the Bob Rae billboards outside of an election cycle. I agree with information about bills being debated in the House or Senate, however. The Tory ad about Bob Rae and the Liberal ads about Bob Rae are not information about current legislative debates or issues.

So we should regulate what people are allowed to advertise?

Plus if the Conservative Party couldn't run ads I'd say we'd see a lot more ads from the NCC, the Manning Institute and other conservative think tanks. Same goes for the left wing think tanks.

madmax · March 23, 2012

It was the NDP's ad campaign that destroyed the Liberals, which unfortunately gave the Conservatives the majority.

It was Ignatiefs record and his response to the question that destroyed the Liberals. Had he had a solid answer... even something like this... "While you were in Ottawa, I was meeting the people of Canada" or even a good deflection.. but the fact is.. the "Debater" blew it in the Debate and the Liberals went on a spiral. This was Ignatiefs Turner Moment. That is why debates occur and every 20 to 30 years a candidate gets mortally wounded.

The Liberals finished third and Conservative Polling numbers remained at the threshold of Majority throughout the Campaign. Ignatiefs Campaign on the steady trajectory after the debate would have resulted in a few more seats for the Liberals.. less Seats for the NDP and likely a Conservative Majority similar to what we see today.

The NDP managed to take seats from Conservatives and Liberals, and Lost Seats to Conservatives and Liberals just as the Liberals and Conservatives won and lost seats from each other and the NDP.

The Conservatives managed a Majority... not like that has never happened before... but the NDP is the Largest Opposition Party in some 30 years. And 2 of those Majorities came back to back after the Trudeau Era...

I don't think anyone watched the NDP adds.. or they were all that effective..

I do believe the debate highlights and the media focus on the NDPs growing strength in Quebec and their fascination with "the wave" then OrangeCrush.. had alot more to do with voter impression then the NDP adds..

But you are correct.. the Conservatives... Laid the groundwork for the "impression of Ignatief" but they were not responsible to any large degree for the final outcome.

I believe much of this had to do with Ignatieff and his campaign really and truly stunk.

madmax · March 23, 2012

Not at all, what they are doing is forcing rae's hand , are you going to break your promise not to run ??

I agree

Shakeyhands · March 23, 2012

We do have the most open and accountable government we've ever had.

OMG..... PLEASE STOP...... Oh my kidneys hurt.... hahahahahahahaha

Shakeyhands · March 23, 2012

Not at all, what they are doing is forcing rae's hand , are you going to break your promise not to run ??

It's odd that people who are not LPC members have an actual opinion on what is the workings of the party.

Rae did the right thing in accepting the Interim Leadership, likewise, if those Party members wish that he should run, and he is elected by the majority of delegates/members, then why would CPC or NDP members give a rats rear end?

Other than they believe Rae is a threat that is.

madmax · March 23, 2012

I don't like the alternatives as it stands now. And if the NDP ever formed government, I'll move into a remote cabin in the back country somewhere to die a peaceful death.

Yes the horror of all things... The NDP has the best track record in all provinces across Canada.

Compared to the other parties.. the NDP has only had one Turkey .. and he is mentioned in these attack ads.. and has moved on to be the Showman and smoothtalker of the Liberals.

the NDP appear very happy to see Rae with the Liberals.

If Conservative Grant Devine had been Smart, he could probably have gotten a Liberal Membership rather then be treated as Persona non Grata with the Conservatives. He could be challenging Rae for the Leadership. :lol:

Even Rae couldn't do what Grant Devine did.. Wipeout a parties name in a Province so that it can never recover. But neither are fiscally wise.

Compare this to All the NDP Premiers and one wonders how come the other parties don't fair so well.

As Bad as Rae acted as a NDP Premier.. the unbalanced budget was but a drop compared to the Current McGuinty Liberals.

And quite Frankly the Federal Conservatives ... talk the talk.. but are full of it when it comes to balancing the books.

Its because they have been big spenders and love big mega projects.

Conservatives reduce income and increase spending.

Its a matter of time before an NDP Federal Government is formed.

Its far more likely they will govern like Douglas... cause they must!

cybercoma · March 23, 2012

So we should regulate what people are allowed to advertise?

We should regulate when political parties and third-party supporters can run political campaign ads. Yes. We already regulate all other aspects of campaigning, political contributions, when lawn signs can be placed, etc. It's also already illegal to campaign on the election day.

Smallc · March 23, 2012

I don't like the alternatives as it stands now. And if the NDP ever formed government, I'll move into a remote cabin in the back country somewhere to die a peaceful death.

If then NDP were to form government, they would have to get serious about it. They'd be no different than NDP governments in Nova Scotia and Manitoba, now that it looks like Mulcair will be in charge.

waldo · March 23, 2012

On the contrary, it was the NDP that killed Ignatieff with this:
Following the release of that ad, the Liberals numbers began dropping like a rock. Unfortunately, some of the vote went to the CPC, while the increased strength of the NDP split the vote in a number of ridings. It was the NDP's ad campaign that destroyed the Liberals, which unfortunately gave the Conservatives the majority.

and it was a cheap low brow ad that purposely ignored contextual facts relative to the traditional voting patterns of the PM and (official) Opposition leader... where the PM and Opposition leader generally don't vote on private members bills... where voting records aren't necessarily an accurate reflection of attendance, particularly in the throes of a campaign where evening votes would likely not be made by leaders attending fundraisers/party events. This was all played out in the 'after-the-fact' analysis of the ad... while effective, it had as much integrity as the Conservatives 'not here for you' labeling.

in any case, your favoured NDP party should shortly look forward to the upcoming barrage of Harper Conservative attack ads - obviously they were waiting on the NDP leadership run to complete. Couple that with the recent slide of Harper Conservatives in the polls and yes, most certainly, 'hang onto your hat', their best worst is coming your way!