Wild Bill Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 F-35 program to get overhaul after scathing AG report I often like whoever is our Auditor General. I really liked Sheila Fraser and I've been waiting to see how Michael Ferguson would do in the role. This action is great! Governments need to raked over the coals every so often, when it comes to our money. If the Tories have not handled the financial process of the F-35 deal properly then they deserve any criticism. However, critics of the F-35 purchase should not be allowed to confuse the issue of how we go about deciding to pay for the fighters with what fighters we DO buy or if we buy any at all! These are all separate issues. Of course, the Tory haters will just lump them all together under the heading of "Conservatives Evil!" but things are never so simple. It's quite possible that someday, perhaps even soon, their team will take power. If and when that happens, any unfair or simplistic criticism they level against the Tories will have set the precedent for the criticism they themselves will face. Or to put it more simply, in politics the Golden Rule says "Do Unto Others As They Have Done Unto YOU!" Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
mentalfloss Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Posted April 3, 2012 Defence officials misled ministers in F-35 fighter jet whitewash: Auditor General Quote
capricorn Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Governments need to raked over the coals every so often, when it comes to our money. If the Tories have not handled the financial process of the F-35 deal properly then they deserve any criticism. If the Conservatives are to be criticized for its handling of the F-35 file then so must the Liberals who first initiated the program. As I read the AG's comments on the matter, it seems the axe falls primarily on DND officials who twisted the information it presented to elected officials and central agencies in order to get its way. Department of National Defence officials twisted government rules, misled ministers and Parliament, and whitewashed cost overruns and delays in a determined effort to ensure Canada purchased the F-35 stealth fighter jet.Auditor-General Michael Ferguson’s scathing assessment, released today, puts the military’s own cost estimates for Canada’s involvement at $25 billion — instead of the publicly stated $16 billion — and questions assertions that Canadian industry stands to benefit from $12 billion in contracts. The Auditor-General’s report also says the F-35 was “clearly the fighter jet of choice” as early as 2006, and that officials intentionally played up the F-35’s stealth capabilities to sidestep established purchasing guidelines. “National Defence did not exercise the diligence that would be expected in managing a $25-billion commitment,” Ferguson said. “It is important that a purchase of this size be managed rigorously and transparently.” http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04/03/defence-officials-misled-ministers-in-f-35-fighter-jet-whitewash-auditor-general/?__lsa=e2dc8013 The defence department has kept the Conservative government in the dark about costs and risks associated with the $25-billion purchase of new F-35 fighter jets, Canada's auditor general has concluded.In his report on the plan to replace the aging CF-18 fleet, Michael Ferguson says National Defence "did not inform senior decision makers, central agencies, and the (defence) minister of the problems and associated risks of relying on the F-35 to replace the CF-18." http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/News/national/2012/04/03/19586881.html This does not exonerate the government as ultimately it wears the actions of senior departmental staff and advisers. The AG is speaking live now on the matter. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
stopstaaron Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Oh yes the liberals did it! They created this conspiracy with the DND!! Conservatives knew nothing!! Ffffffffffffffffffffff Quote Don't ban me bro. Oh behave, I'll behave. I'll be a good little boy.
Wild Bill Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Oh yes the liberals did it! They created this conspiracy with the DND!! Conservatives knew nothing!! Ffffffffffffffffffffff You're right, stopstaaron! When the Liberals were in power they regularly briefed and consulted with the Reform/Alliance Opposition before doing anything! :lol: Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Topaz Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 My understanding was the Liberals left the doors open to have the option of buying the F-35 but they didn't commit to it and its been many years since the Liberals did this. The Tories had the chance to have an open bid to compare prices and quality against the F-35 but didn't, they didn't get the job done and they were too bullheaded to admit they were wrong until down, in a way. They have screwed up so many times when it comes to large items. Quote
mentalfloss Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Posted April 3, 2012 John Ivison: Auditor-General’s report shows flaw in Tories’ reflex to never retreat or apologize Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Somebody commented that the CBC would cost more than new F-35 "jets" over a 35 year life cycle. Just sayin'.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
mentalfloss Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Posted April 3, 2012 Somebody commented that the CBC would cost more than new F-35 "jets" over a 35 year life cycle. Just sayin'.... That CBC is worth it and the jets are not? Quote
Wild Bill Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 That CBC is worth it and the jets are not? Except for Don Cherry, CBC TV has NEVER been worth a few Lee-Enfields! CBC Radio is a gem but only a tiny portion of the CBC's budget. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 That CBC is worth it and the jets are not? Maybe...but either way it sure puts things in perspective. Where is the open bid for public broadcasting in Canada? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Jerry J. Fortin Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 The Canadian government has not committed to the purchase of this aircraft. Thank God! Quote
mentalfloss Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Posted April 3, 2012 Maybe...but either way it sure puts things in perspective. Where is the open bid for public broadcasting in Canada? Quote
stopstaaron Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Oh yes the liberals did it! They created this conspiracy with the DND!! Conservatives knew nothing!! Ffffffffffffffffffffff someone reported this post and i got warned not to troll the forum... wtf Quote Don't ban me bro. Oh behave, I'll behave. I'll be a good little boy.
mentalfloss Posted April 3, 2012 Author Report Posted April 3, 2012 someone reported this post and i got warned not to troll the forum... wtf Not sure. There's been much worse said about the left than your post, lol Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 I am sure it would be cheaper to buy the CBC if it was for sale, than this flying pig of an aircraft. Keep in mind the design is 15 years old. In all that time there are still numerous bugs in the system. Flyaway cost today, 132 million dollars. Not the 75 million spouted. Lets get real hear. The scope of this fiasco is about to expand. There is now a real possibility that the government may be compelled avoid the political landmines associated with uncontested single source contracts. This is a game changer for Canada. There is a majority government, and they have been told by the AG and the public is pissed. We could even see an open competition. We could even see the purchase setback, to cover the required timeline, and a tactical choice to buy as many used aircraft as we could reasonably afford while waiting for final approval of a winner in the competition. Quote
PIK Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Harper will deal with this quickly, heads will roll, the jet will be cancelled and we can clean out the old liberal bureaucracy within the DND. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
Jack Weber Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Harper will deal with this quickly, heads will roll, the jet will be cancelled and we can clean out the old liberal bureaucracy within the DND. Yes... Dada Harper to the rescue again to get those dirty L(l)iberals... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
PIK Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Yes... Dada Harper to the rescue again to get those dirty L(l)iberals... Exactly, we need to clean out the old liberal bureaucracy out of all goverment depts. Chretien is still haunting us.But it can't be done over night, but in the next few years................. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
capricorn Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 We could even see the purchase setback, to cover the required timeline, and a tactical choice to buy as many used aircraft as we could reasonably afford while waiting for final approval of a winner in the competition. Speaking of purchasing used aircraft, I'm sure Canada's past experience with purchasing used equipment, such as rusting submarines, will come in handy. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Jack Weber Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Exactly, we need to clean out the old liberal bureaucracy out of all goverment depts. Chretien is still haunting us.But it can't be done over night, but in the next few years................. Uh huh... How 'bout them robocalls,huh? Edited April 3, 2012 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
punked Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Exactly, we need to clean out the old liberal bureaucracy out of all goverment depts. Chretien is still haunting us.But it can't be done over night, but in the next few years................. You are just the worst. Edited April 3, 2012 by punked Quote
Wild Bill Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 I hope that when this is all said and done, and everyone has had their say, Canada doesn't end up with a bunch of rusty Sea Kings, 4 leaky subs that can't fire a torpedo, and a fleet of badly outdated CF-18's to compliment the joke. Our forces deserve better than that. Spider, I'm afraid that it would seem that's EXACTLY where we will end up! It's just the way Canada ALWAYS does these things! Now that the F-35 has become politically embarrassing, Harper will dump it like last week's garbage. The Opposition will immediately demand a new, open procurement process that MUST choose a different plane! Of course, no such plane exists. We will likely still be flying our F-18s 25 years from now. The occasional one will fall out of the sky but no one will care. On peacekeeping missions Canada's squadron will be kept far in the back, so that they won't get in the way of the countries doing the REAL fighting! It's a shame. We just seem to be totally useless at this sort of thing. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
eyeball Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 However, critics of the F-35 purchase should not be allowed to confuse the issue of how we go about deciding to pay for the fighters with what fighters we DO buy or if we buy any at all! What about adding another example of deceit to the mountain of evidence that deceit is the normal way of getting support for the things the government wants? This makes questioning why we need the goddamn planes in the first place even more pertinent. These are all separate issues. Of course, the Tory haters will just lump them all together under the heading of "Conservatives Evil!" but things are never so simple. The issues may be different but the pattern remains the same. This skeptic is lumping it all under the heading "more state bullshit". Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted April 3, 2012 Report Posted April 3, 2012 Spider, I'm afraid that it would seem that's EXACTLY where we will end up! It's just the way Canada ALWAYS does these things! Now that the F-35 has become politically embarrassing, Harper will dump it like last week's garbage. The Opposition will immediately demand a new, open procurement process that MUST choose a different plane! Of course, no such plane exists. We will likely still be flying our F-18s 25 years from now. The occasional one will fall out of the sky but no one will care. On peacekeeping missions Canada's squadron will be kept far in the back, so that they won't get in the way of the countries doing the REAL fighting! It's a shame. We just seem to be totally useless at this sort of thing. Maybe it's well disguised genius - envision a heron in eagle's clothing...we make our allies think we're really incompetent at deciding what to waste spend our money on and in the process never spend waste any at all. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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