Enough Political Sleaze Already

[Big Guy]

This latest “robocalls” scandal in Ottawa may be a turning point in the way that our elections are run. Each new disclosure and accusation serves to muddy the waters and obfuscate facts. No matter which party one believes, the consequence of the arguing about these “dirty tricks” is that the general public has become even more cynical towards Canadian politics and our form of democracy - and people ask why only 60% of eligible voters voted in the last election! The threads of evidence have been so entwined and knotted that we now have Elections Canada, the RCMP and every major media outlet attempting to unravel the truth.

Many Canadians blame the new Conservative political culture. Some describe this scandal as “same old, same old” from all parties but just using the new technologies while yet others declare this as a sign that our democratic system is under attack.

When accusations of “dirty tricks” have been heatedly debated during question period, our “honorable” members of parliament, hiding behind the immunity of parliamentary debate, have knowingly portrayed falsehoods as fact, made unsubstantiated accusations and impugned each others character. All we hear is “Is it legal or not?”. The process is shameful and embarrassing to the vast majority of Canadians.

It is not enough to set the political behaviour bar at legality. To allow political cronies to operate that close to the “illegal” edge will guarantee that some will cross that line. The buffer to that edge is one of transparent ethics and integrity.

Enough already! This political sleaze has to stop!! It is time to make the minimal standard of political behaviour to be one that is ethically and morally acceptable.

Stephen Harper is not just the Prime Minister of the 6 million Canadians who voted for members of the Conservative Party. Stephen Harper is not just the Prime Minister of the 15 million Canadians who voted in the 2011 election. Stephen Harper is not just the Prime Minister of the 25 million Canadians who were eligible to vote in this last election. Stephen Harper is the Prime Minister of the 32 million Canadians who depend on the current government to protect and defend their precious democracy from those who are prepared to sacrifice it for their own ends.

I believe that it is time now for Stephen Harper to call a public enquiry as to the shenanigans that took place during the 2011 election. Shine the light of exposure on what was illegal, what was unethical and what was immoral. Use the results of this process to establish new and enforceable guidelines and standards of behavior that will guarantee that election results will truly reflect the wishes of the electorate.

Politicians come and go. Those in the news to-day will soon disappear into history. Too many Canadians have died to preserve our freedom to now allow our form of democracy to be eroded and undermined for generations of the future, just to satisfy a few misguided political ambitions of the present.

[PIK]

This latest “robocalls” scandal in Ottawa may be a turning point in the way that our elections are run. Each new disclosure and accusation serves to muddy the waters and obfuscate facts. No matter which party one believes, the consequence of the arguing about these “dirty tricks” is that the general public has become even more cynical towards Canadian politics and our form of democracy - and people ask why only 60% of eligible voters voted in the last election! The threads of evidence have been so entwined and knotted that we now have Elections Canada, the RCMP and every major media outlet attempting to unravel the truth.

Many Canadians blame the new Conservative political culture. Some describe this scandal as “same old, same old” from all parties but just using the new technologies while yet others declare this as a sign that our democratic system is under attack.

When accusations of “dirty tricks” have been heatedly debated during question period, our “honorable” members of parliament, hiding behind the immunity of parliamentary debate, have knowingly portrayed falsehoods as fact, made unsubstantiated accusations and impugned each others character. All we hear is “Is it legal or not?”. The process is shameful and embarrassing to the vast majority of Canadians.

It is not enough to set the political behaviour bar at legality. To allow political cronies to operate that close to the “illegal” edge will guarantee that some will cross that line. The buffer to that edge is one of transparent ethics and integrity.

Enough already! This political sleaze has to stop!! It is time to make the minimal standard of political behaviour to be one that is ethically and morally acceptable.

Stephen Harper is not just the Prime Minister of the 6 million Canadians who voted for members of the Conservative Party. Stephen Harper is not just the Prime Minister of the 15 million Canadians who voted in the 2011 election. Stephen Harper is not just the Prime Minister of the 25 million Canadians who were eligible to vote in this last election. Stephen Harper is the Prime Minister of the 32 million Canadians who depend on the current government to protect and defend their precious democracy from those who are prepared to sacrifice it for their own ends.

I believe that it is time now for Stephen Harper to call a public enquiry as to the shenanigans that took place during the 2011 election. Shine the light of exposure on what was illegal, what was unethical and what was immoral. Use the results of this process to establish new and enforceable guidelines and standards of behavior that will guarantee that election results will truly reflect the wishes of the electorate.

Politicians come and go. Those in the news to-day will soon disappear into history. Too many Canadians have died to preserve our freedom to now allow our form of democracy to be eroded and undermined for generations of the future, just to satisfy a few misguided political ambitions of the present.

So in other words , it is all harpers fault? Why have any inquiry ,since you and the left have already stated it is all harpers fault, a well oiled ,well financed conservative machine that did it.

[waldo]

So in other words , it is all harpers fault? Why have any inquiry ,since you and the left have already stated it is all harpers fault, a well oiled ,well financed conservative machine that did it.

Big Guy's OP was a most partisan free and accurate assessment - his 'fault attachments' were broad and across all party lines. Your reply most certainly speaks to your personal partisanship and inability to grasp a 'bigger picture' on ethics, morality and attacks on our democracy.

[Boges]

I believe that it is time now for Stephen Harper to call a public enquiry as to the shenanigans that took place during the 2011 election. Shine the light of exposure on what was illegal, what was unethical and what was immoral. Use the results of this process to establish new and enforceable guidelines and standards of behavior that will guarantee that election results will truly reflect the wishes of the electorate.

Of course you have evidence these shenanigans happened right?

[cybercoma]

Excellent post, Big Guy! Especially this part:

Stephen Harper is not just the Prime Minister of the 6 million Canadians who voted for members of the Conservative Party. Stephen Harper is not just the Prime Minister of the 15 million Canadians who voted in the 2011 election. Stephen Harper is not just the Prime Minister of the 25 million Canadians who were eligible to vote in this last election. Stephen Harper is the Prime Minister of the 32 million Canadians who depend on the current government to protect and defend their precious democracy from those who are prepared to sacrifice it for their own ends.

[Shakeyhands]

Of course you have evidence these shenanigans happened right?

This is great... please keep it up.

[Big Guy]

Of course you have evidence these shenanigans happened right?

Yes - I was a recipient of a midnight phone call from my Liberal candidate asking for my vote. It was interesting because I personally know that individual candidate so the conversation with the imposter was brief and abrupt. We also had zealots from all parties doing really stupid and silly things during the last election. The perception is that now anything goes if you think it is “legal”. Some of these folks aren’t very bright and their perception of what is or what is not legal is not based on knowledge of the law.

[scribblet]

So in other words , it is all harpers fault? Why have any inquiry ,since you and the left have already stated it is all harpers fault, a well oiled ,well financed conservative machine that did it.

Exactly.

And now we have two websites, one foreign one a left wing Canadian site run by that creepy little NDP twit,Ian Capstick, who's often on Evan Slitherin's Power and Politics tv show. Just knowing that would make any right thinking person suspicious now. His website is using automated complaints to flood E.C. with robo calls in order to up the ante, and make it appear there are more complaints. One click robot complaints, now that's manipulating democracy also.

[Boges]

Yes - I was a recipient of a midnight phone call from my Liberal candidate asking for my vote. It was interesting because I personally know that individual candidate so the conversation with the imposter was brief and abrupt. We also had zealots from all parties doing really stupid and silly things during the last election. The perception is that now anything goes if you think it is “legal”. Some of these folks aren’t very bright and their perception of what is or what is not legal is not based on knowledge of the law.

So your anecdote that the CPC as a political party doesn't respect democracy?

[Boges]

Yes - I was a recipient of a midnight phone call from my Liberal candidate asking for my vote. It was interesting because I personally know that individual candidate so the conversation with the imposter was brief and abrupt. We also had zealots from all parties doing really stupid and silly things during the last election. The perception is that now anything goes if you think it is “legal”. Some of these folks aren’t very bright and their perception of what is or what is not legal is not based on knowledge of the law.

So your anecdote that the CPC as a political party doesn't respect democracy?

Did you call EC to complain about this call?

[Jack Weber]

Exactly.

And now we have two websites, one foreign one a left wing Canadian site run by that creepy little NDP twit,Ian Capstick, who's often on Evan Slitherin's Power and Politics tv show. Just knowing that would make any right thinking person suspicious now. His website is using automated complaints to flood E.C. with robo calls in order to up the ante, and make it appear there are more complaints. One click robot complaints, now that's manipulating democracy also.

Classy...

Did Ezra make you say this?...Or was it ol' Chuck Adler??...Brian Lilley?

Because let's face it,you did'nt come up with it yourself...

By the way,define "right thinking person",if you please?

a "right thinking person" would'nt be an avid folower of all things Sun Media,would they?

[Boges]

Classy...

Did Ezra make you say this?...Or was it ol' Chuck Adler??...Brian Lilley?

Because let's face it,you did'nt come up with it yourself...

By the way,define "right thinking person",if you please?

a "right thinking person" would'nt be an avid folower of all things Sun Media,would they?

Just because you hate Sun News doesn't mean the people that read their papers and watch their programming can't be rational conservatives.

In fact the spewed hatred towards Sun News is equally as monotonous as those who, by default, think anything the CBC does is Pinko Commie Liberal Crap.

[Jack Weber]

Just because you hate Sun News doesn't mean the people that read their papers and watch their programming can't be rational conservatives.

In fact the spewed hatred towards Sun News is equally as monotonous as those who, by default, think anything the CBC does is Pinko Commie Liberal Crap.

I don't hate Sun News...

Although,even if I were a hardcore conservative,I would'nt be going to any of the Sun papers to get my news...Mainly because ,for the most part,it's shlock tabloid journalism...

And as far as SunTV goes...C'mon...It's a poorly produced 24 hour infotainment channel for people who REQUIRE shlock tabloid journalism in video form that the Sun "news"papers provide in print...

There's a reason why it's in the upper sratosphere of channels most cable operators provide...Very few want it,or better yet,are prepared to pay extra for it...

But,are you suggesting that the usual conservative pap that emminates from all things Sun/Peledeau is geared to the "right thinking person",as Scribblett has said?

[Boges]

I don't hate Sun News...

Although,even if I were a hardcore conservative,I would'nt be going to any of the Sun papers to get my news...Mainly because ,for the most part,it's shlock tabloid journalism...

And as far as SunTV goes...C'mon...It's a poorly produced 24 hour infotainment channel for people who REQUIRE shlock tabloid journalism in video form that the Sun "news"papers provide in print...

There's a reason why it's in the upper sratosphere of channels most cable operators provide...Very few want it,or better yet,are prepared to pay extra for it...

But,are you suggesting that the usual conservative pap that emminates from all things Sun/Peledeau is geared to the "right thinking person",as Scribblett has said?

When you say shlock journalism are you referring to the layout of the paper or the actual content?

I think when you look at some of the sensational claims you see from the Star you could make the same claim about them. But they layout their paper in a nice broadsheet format so it's cool.

You can't think one should take columnists like Heather Mallick, Joe Fiorito, Chris Hume or Linda McQuaig seriously?

Oh and The Sun devotes more than 8-pages to sports. The Neanderthals!

Sun News does basically go after the same low-hanging fruit when they discuss their issues but I think that's their mission statement. They would say that other media outlets give you the "same-old, same-old" so they're trying to talk about things the CBC and CTV don't.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Boges

[Boges]

There's a reason why it's in the upper sratosphere of channels most cable operators provide...Very few want it,or better yet,are prepared to pay extra for it...

This claim is rather hilarious because no one is asked to pay extra for CBC News or CTV Newsnet or City Panic 24 for that matter.

How many people would pay extra for those channels when most of their content is available online?

You're forced to pay for other news channels in your carriage fees.

[Jack Weber]

When you say shlock journalism are you referring to the layout of the paper or the actual content?

I think when you look at some of the sensational claims you see from the Star you could make the same claim about them. But they layout their paper in a nice broadsheet format so it's cool.

You can't think one should take columnists like Heather Mallick, Joe Fiorito, Chris Hume or Linda McQuaig seriously?

Oh and The Sun devotes more than 8-pages to sports. The Neanderthals!

Sun News does basically go after the same low-hanging fruit when they discuss their issues but I think that's their mission statement. They would say that other media outlets give you the "same-old, same-old" so they're trying to talk about things the CBC and CTV don't.

I don't read The Star,either...

See,you idealogues only think in terms of black and white..You immediately assumed that while I have no interest in The Toronto Sun's editorial page (assuming one can find it through the full page car and audio/visual equipment ads) that I must be a raging (L)liberal who only agrees with the position of The Star or occassionally,the CBC...

And I like sports,so that's not a reason to dislike The Sun,either...It might be because it seems to be the paper for the bumper sticker sloganeering Don Cherry lunkhead type...

[Jack Weber]

This claim is rather hilarious because no one is asked to pay extra for CBC News or CTV Newsnet or City Panic 24 for that matter.

How many people would pay extra for those channels when most of their content is available online?

You're forced to pay for other news channels in your carriage fees.

But I'm not paying extra for SunTV...

And it sounds like very few are...

[cybercoma]

I can see how it might be confusing from the thread title, but this isn't actually about Sun Media.

[Boges]

But I'm not paying extra for SunTV...

And it sounds like very few are...

Rogers now requires you to pay for it like a specialty channel.

As far as I know Bell and Cogeco both have it included with a basic cable package.

[Boges]

And I like sports,so that's not a reason to dislike The Sun,either...It might be because it seems to be the paper for the bumper sticker sloganeering Don Cherry lunkhead type...

Elistism FTW.

As I anticipated it was more because of the layout than the actual content.

Oh and instead of advertising BMW X3's they advertise used cars. How low-class of them.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Boges

[Big Guy]

So your anecdote that the CPC as a political party doesn't respect democracy?

Did you call EC to complain about this call?

No - I already know who was behind it and it was after all "legal" - Sleazy but legal!

So your anecdote that the CPC as a political party doesn't respect democracy?

Did you call EC to complain about this call?

Diane Finley is my member of parliament. Doug Finley started his political career in our riding on the provincial and federal campaigns. I have watched Doug be promoted to regional and then national campaign director. He has always been very effective. It was coincidental that “strange” phone calls and electioneering “instances” began when Doug worked here. Every one of his candidates on the provincial and federal level were successful under his “tutelage” and are still in office.

Bob Speller was the Minister of Agriculture for the Liberals at one time ( Bob was the representative from our riding at the time) came up for re-election. Doug ran his wife, Diane Finley, an unknown neophyte to politics and an office manager at time against Bob Speller, the sitting Minister of Agriculture in our agricultural riding. It was considered a joke and the Liberals did not take it seriously.

Well – Diane Finley won that close one and she and hubby Doug went to Ottawa with Doug taking over the national campaign. The rest is history with Doug being rewarded eventually with a lifetime job in the Senate.

Talking about lifetimes – Doug teamed up with Tom Flanagan as the “hit” boys for Harper and it was the Finley – Flanagan duo who made that late night visit to the dying Chuck Cadman to sell him an insurance policy “he couldn’t refuse”. Chuck did eventually refuse but it gives one an idea how loyal Senator Doug is to Harper. I believe that he knows how to win – and at what cost. Doug was also one of the folks against whom charges were dropped in the in-and-out scheme settlement when the party negotiated paying the fine instead if these guys going to trial.

Doug backed Ernie Eves in a leadership fight for the Ontario Tories against John Tory and that was the only unsuccessful campaign that he fielded that I know about. Some of the “tricks” used in that campaign were also very interesting.

[Jack Weber]

Rogers now requires you to pay for it like a specialty channel.

As far as I know Bell and Cogeco both have it included with a basic cable package.

I'm on Cogeco....

It's been sent to nowhere land...

[Jack Weber]

Elistism FTW.

As I anticipated it was more because of the layout than the actual content.

Oh and instead of advertising BMW X3's they advertise used cars. How low-class of them.

Yeah...

Let's embrace utter stupidity as a positive trait...

The content fits the layout...

Elitism,my ass...

[g_bambino]

Stephen Harper is the Prime Minister of the 32 million Canadians who depend on the current government to protect and defend their precious democracy from those who are prepared to sacrifice it for their own ends.

Stephen Harper is not the guardian of democracy. That responsibility falls on many more parties, including the Queen, the governor general, our members of parlaiment, judges, and each and every one of the rest of us. If democracy were left to a single politician, well... We'd be doomed to dictatorship.

[ed.: c/e]

Edited March 8, 2012 by g_bambino

[August1991]

This latest “robocalls” scandal in Ottawa may be a turning point in the way that our elections are run. Each new disclosure and accusation serves to muddy the waters and obfuscate facts. No matter which party one believes, the consequence of the arguing about these “dirty tricks” is that the general public has become even more cynical towards Canadian politics and our form of democracy...

Big Guy, has it ever ocurred to you that the NDP/Liberals may have started this "scandal" to make you question the legitimacy of this government?

If I were in opposition, I would question the legitimacy of the government.

Two questions.

1. Why wonder about these "robocalls" now? Why not immediately after the election? Why is this an issue?

2. All things considered, did any "robocall" change a vote? Is a "robocall" the same as vote tampering? Is it comparable to Adscam or Putin's re-election?

IOW, if it is shown that the Conservative Party hired a call centre to use a computer to phone people on election day, who the fu*k cares?

Stephen Harper is not the guardian of democracy. That responsibility falls on many more parties, including the Queen, the governor general, our members of parlaiment, judges, and each and every one of the rest of us. If democracy were left to a single politician, well... We'd be doomed to dictatorship.

As a republican, I agree.

---

For ordinary people, this is a non-issue. Bob Rae and the NDP and the people who hate Harper don't understand this. (The federal Liberals - and NDP - need more money and talent to identify their voters. Clearly, the federal Liberals are broke - and clueless.)

Maybe if the English NDP had a connection to Quebec, it would grasp such issues better.

Edited March 9, 2012 by August1991