Guest American Woman Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 I didn't say it did. And I didn't say that you said it did. I was just pointing out that "cruel and unusual punishment," which is sometimes cited to argue against the death penalty (as you indicated), is subjective - and could actually be a point in favor of the death penalty over keeping someone locked up - with no hope of parole - for the rest of their lives. As I said, I'd prefer death over the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Sure didn't come across that way. It might in a moment... So how about expanding on that a bit? - but who are you to say what makes the family of a murder victim "whole?" I believe for some that would depend on knowing the murderer will never kill again. Some may never have peace of mind again without knowing that their family will never fall victim to the murderer again. I just don't see how you can so clearly dismiss them and their feelings, as if they are the criminal for feeling the way they do. First of all it's the supporters of death penalties and mandatory sentencing and getting tough on criminals etc who are always putting victims on a pedestal and in so doing effectively saying anyone who isn't with them must be a callous cold-hearted bastard that is against them. People who don't like having their sacred cows tipped over should leave them in the barn. You offer victims support and counselling, restitution where its feasible and the opportunity to face the criminal that's harmed them but you draw the line at the victim's request they be executed. Case closed. You, on the other hand, seem to be concerned only about the possible innocent executions, while dismissing - or ignoring - the subsequent murders committed by murderers who escaped or were freed. In either case, innocent people end up dying - whether one supports the death penalty or not. That is a fact. It's why I don't see this as a black and white issue. Actually I'm more concerned about the preponderance of medieval attitudes towards mentally ill people, the conflation between criminality and insanity and the fact that our prisons are overflowing with mentally ill people. I think the sort of moral entrepreneurs advancing arguments for the death penalty are the type who will take ten feet if you give them an inch. They'll soon be back complaining about the great expense and amount of time justice takes and calling for looser standards to speed things along. It's your opinion that it's not about justice, but you can't get inside of other people's heads and determine what it's about for them. Maybe not but what's in some people's hearts is as obvious as the day is long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 ...You offer victims support and counselling, restitution where its feasible and the opportunity to face the criminal that's harmed them but you draw the line at the victim's request they be executed. Case closed. ...but let me guess, it is very acceptable to consider requests from the victim that perps not be executed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 ...but let me guess, it is very acceptable to consider requests from the victim that perps not be executed. Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 ...but let me guess, it is very acceptable to consider requests from the victim that perps not be executed. No need for such requests... capital punishment is an idiotic, counter productive policy that was abolished decades ago in pretty much the entire civilised world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 It's interesting that no one ever considers the impact of the death penalty on the convicted murderer's family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 No need for such requests... capital punishment is an idiotic, counter productive policy that was abolished decades ago in pretty much the entire civilised world. No....Japan is considered to be quite "civilised"...as is the United States of America. Also, Canada's National Defence Act retained capital punishment for high treason as late as 1998. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 It's interesting that no one ever considers the impact of the death penalty on the convicted murderer's family. If only the victim's family was given the same consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 It's interesting that no one ever considers the impact of the death penalty on the convicted murderer's family. If I had a convicted murderer in my family and his guilt was obvious I would volunteer to throw the switch! If I went crazy and killed someone and the shrinks gave me back my sanity, when I realized what I had done the guilt would drive me to suicide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 No....Japan is considered to be quite "civilised"...as is the United States of America. Also, Canada's National Defence Act retained capital punishment for high treason as late as 1998. Capital punishment is on its way out in the US as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Capital punishment is on its way out in the US as well. That's up to the individual states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 That's up to the individual states. Yes but in general its in decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Capital punishment is on its way out in the US as well. That's fine, but it remains on the books. Hell, the USSC suspended capital punishment in 1972, four years before Canada (1976), which retained capital punishment for high treason until 1998. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I think it's interesting to note that Michigan was the first English speaking government in the world to abolish the death penalty for murder and lesser crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 It's interesting that no one ever considers the impact of the death penalty on the convicted murderer's family. The law pertains to those who broke the law and the victim(s), so it's not exactly surprising that the convicted murderer's family isn't a consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 The law pertains to those who broke the law and the victim(s), so it's not exactly surprising that the convicted murderer's family isn't a consideration. If the state is going to take responsibility for putting someone to death, they ought to consider the impact on that person's family who will be impacted by this decision and who had no hand in the person's crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Hell, the USSC suspended capital punishment in 1972 nice factoid - interesting that you missed the part about the short-lived (4 year only) suspension. Of course, what's even more interesting is the foundation of the suspension and how it was, effectively, dispatched. Apparently, all it took to manage the 'interfering' suspension was for states to distinctly separate the judicial guilt assigning phase from the resultant sentencing phase! Presto-chango results in ~1300 executions across the U.S. since that short-lived suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) nice factoid - interesting that you missed the part about the short-lived (4 year only) suspension. Funny thing about words and reading comprehension...some get it...some don't. Please see the definition of "suspended". Your sensitivity to the US beating Canada to the political punch is noted. Edited March 4, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Funny thing about words and reading comprehension...some get it...some don't. Please see the definition of "suspended". Your sensitivity to the US beating Canada to the political punch is noted. Hey bush_cheney what happened?You were making 40 odd comments per day but recently I see you are down to under 20,what gives? Well anyways capital punishment is wrong because of several reasons,its not a Canada vs US topic really. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Funny thing about words and reading comprehension...some get it...some don't. Please see the definition of "suspended". hey, you pumped it... at least have the wherewithal to play through. Apparently, that short 4 year suspension is most meaningful to you. Embrace those 4 years... be proud of those 4 years... relish those 4 years - it's your noted suspension, after all, hey? Your sensitivity to the US beating Canada to the political punch is noted. oh ya, those subsequent ~1300 U.S. executions speak to a very loud and forceful, as you say, "political punch" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Hey bush_cheney what happened?You were making 40 odd comments per day but recently I see you are down to under 20,what gives? NCAA March Madness is starting up...there is no analog in Canada. Well anyways capital punishment is wrong because of several reasons,its not a Canada vs US topic really. It is when my country tries to off a convicted Canadian murderer. Maybe they would get a lighter sentence if they stole panties too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 hey, you pumped it... at least have the wherewithal to play through. Apparently, that short 4 year suspension is most meaningful to you. Embrace those 4 years... be proud of those 4 years... relish those 4 years - it's your noted suspension, after all, hey? I do...the 4 years was ended in dramatic fashion by a Utah firing squad. oh ya, those subsequent ~1300 U.S. executions speak to a very loud and forceful, as you say, "political punch" It's always fun to beat the bleeding hearts like you...again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 NCAA March Madness is starting up I can't wait! The Big 10 is strong this year, and after several years Michigan is finally back from the dead. Anyways, sorry, I know this is off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I can't wait! The Big 10 is strong this year, and after several years Michigan is finally back from the dead. Anyways, sorry, I know this is off topic. Not really...in this aspect, Canada is truly "dead". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 I do...the 4 years was ended in dramatic fashion by a Utah firing squad. It's always fun to beat the bleeding hearts like you...again! oh ya, I expect you have a perverse admiration for Gary Gilmore's... "Let's do it"! but, hey now... if you project on ~1300 executions as, as you stated, "beating a bleeding heart, like me", well... hey, it's your country! Why would I take exception to you chest thumping over your own countries ~ 1300 executions? This is the Canadian Federal Politics forum, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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