.

[eyeball]

There's also the fact that only 60% of eligible voters cast their vote. Who's to say which party the other 40% support.

Good question.

In the meantime what we do know is startling enough. Some 25% of eligible voters chose the government of the country. Half of these are social conservatives but given the type legislation that's being proposed these days it's fairly clear our country is dancing to the tune of about 12.5% of the electorate.

I don't know about anyone else but I'd much rather have a whole pizza pie with the works than the thin meagre little slice that's on the table.

[cybercoma]

Unfortunately if anyone is brought up on charges, the whole process will get bogged down in beurocracy taking to long and costing the taxpayers MORE money for an investigation that will only catch the small time criminals and not the ones who actually did the crime. I can get behind them getting punished, but we've seen it before, it won't mean much.

It meant Chretien getting ousted from the leadership and ultimately, following a series of missteps by the party, the LPC ending up as the third party for the first time in history. Chretien and Martin never took ownership of adscam. Bureaucrats took the fall. However, they were punished at the polls.

[cybercoma]

There's also the fact that only 60% of eligible voters cast their vote. Who's to say which party the other 40% support.

Which brings the legitimacy of our elections even more into question when 25% of eligible voters decide a majority government.

[olpfan1]

This is from April 20th 2011...and anyone who says it was the NDP needs to re think, its the conservatives who were desperate for the win, as if the NDP would use american firms

http://www.orleansstar.ca/News/Politics/2011-04-20/article-2442009/-Con-artists-target-Liberal-campaign-in-Ottawa-Orleans-/1

Bertschi says voters have been receiving calls from telemarketers in the U.S. claiming to speak on behalf of the Liberal Party of Canada and urging voters not to vote for the Liberal candidate.

“These callers not only claim to be from the Liberal Party of Canada, but they also ask offensive questions and make rude statements,” said Bertschi. “This agency is not from the Liberal Party or my campaign, it is not contracted by the Liberal Party or my campaign, and does not represent me or my campaign.

“They are childish imitators trying to stop residents from voting for me and the Liberal Party.”

He went on to say the caller ID displays a number from Montana with the area code 701. Calls fielded from Bertschi’s campaign office carry his name on the caller ID with the local area code 613.

"Earlier today, lawyers for my campaign lodged an official complaint with Elections Canada about rude and harassing phone calls constituents have been receiving from an agency claiming to be the Liberal Party,” Bertschi said April 19.

Edited February 24, 2012 by olpfan1

[CPCFTW]

Please don't remind them...

In their world, every single CPC supporter turned up at the polls. Obviously, the 40% who didn't show up would have all voted for a united left party along with all NDP and Liberal voters.

Which brings the legitimacy of our elections even more into question when 25% of eligible voters decide a majority government.

ugh... now look at what you've done..

Edited February 24, 2012 by CPCFTW

[olpfan1]

Just read this morning but didn't keep the link, that they allready have identified a young campaign worker.

Only an idiot would think only 1 person was involved, this has affected 28 riding's that I know of from last night..maybe there is more but 1 person did not do this, this was calculated and there would have to have been a lot of money used...like campaign money, yeah, this goes far beyond a rogue campaign worker

[olpfan1]

Might want to check with the Canadian Firearms Centre, sounds more like a gun registry application inquiry.

I see a lot of speculation and innuendo, but not much in the way of substance.

Well, until Harper calls for a public inquiry he is guilty in my eyes, he needs to grow a set like Chretien & Martin did even if the risk is losing his government.. his rhetoric doesn't to me sound like he really cares if anything happens

Edited February 24, 2012 by olpfan1

[olpfan1]

Harper Denies Conservative Link To Robocalls

Harper's response

Rae's response

I agree there is a lot of rhetoric being spewed, but not sure I'm in agreement with you on the source.

Did Harper condemn or punish the conservatives when they admitted to calling people in Cotlers riding and telling them that he is resigning? He didn't say anything. What kind of leader says nothing when his party is responsible for something like that?

That is why I think Harper is full of crap

I have no doubt in my mind that the CPC upper tier management knew this was going on when it was going on

Edited February 24, 2012 by olpfan1

[scribblet]

Harper Denies Link To Robocalls

Harper's response

Rae's response

"The prime minister has created a Nixonian culture," Rae said. "This stuff doesn't happen unless the boss lets it happen."

So by Rae's lights, Chretien was letting adscam happen

[scribblet]

Only an idiot would think only 1 person was involved, this has affected 28 riding's that I know of from last night..maybe there is more but 1 person did not do this, this was calculated and there would have to have been a lot of money used...like campaign money, yeah, this goes far beyond a rogue campaign worker

You do know what 'robo calls' are don't you. Other than that, you have nothing but innuendo and speculation.

[olpfan1]

So by Rae's lights, Chretien was letting adscam happen

To be fair Chretien & Martin were both officially investigated and both looked clean...now, that probably isn't reality, they probably were insulated from whatever was going on but in my mind they knew what was happening

Edited February 24, 2012 by olpfan1

[dre]

I agree with you. Some people advocate for a wholesale change to how seats are allocated but I think that's a severe change. This is for another thread, though.

True but when 40% of people can dicate policy to the other 60% thats going conflict with pretty much any reasonable personss sense of fairness and justice. If its just an anomaly that happens once ever 15 or 20 years, then you can consider it a managable flaw in an otherwise good system. But if this starts to happen on a regular basis then clearly it will have to get fixed. Democracy isnt about a minority of the population having control.

[olpfan1]

You do know what 'robo calls' are don't you. Other than that, you have nothing but innuendo and speculation.

yeah, I do, but 28 riding's 1 guy? using HIS money? bullsh!t what about the the two different women talking? French and English? you can't just pick 1 fall guy and then its case closed

The only reason they picked Michael Sona is because he was the one that tried stealing the ballot box so university students couldn't vote early..they figured he'd done something dirty before so why not him

I doubt we'll ever know what really happened just like with Ad Scam ..but I do think this will come into play next election

[Michael Hardner]

True but when 40% of people can dicate policy to the other 60% thats going conflict with pretty much any reasonable personss sense of fairness and justice. If its just an anomaly that happens once ever 15 or 20 years, then you can consider it a managable flaw in an otherwise good system. But if this starts to happen on a regular basis then clearly it will have to get fixed. Democracy isnt about a minority of the population having control.

I have no problem for the 60% who don't bother to show up. You have to look at the result, which is a good one IMO.

[olpfan1]

There is no mistaking your feelings on this issue, however until there some substantial evidence, I don't think anything can be done based on feelings. If evidence is presented that implicates the upper Conservative management in this, you and I may have something to agree on. But I haven't seen anything yet...

All I can go on are the other instances of dirty election tactics committed by the CPC

The in & out scandal where they were deemed guilty but only had to pay a 25,000 dollar fine

They have ministers, senators, ordinary mp's who've been found guilty by elections Canada for multiple wrong doings

They admitted publicly.. Irwin Cotlers riding by calling his constituents and telling them he is resigning

They monitored who was all going to their campaigns and even kicked a few liberal supporters out who were just there to listen to Harper

Did I miss any? When a spokesperson for the CPC says they run fair, election campaigns how can anyone believe that? So that is how I think the CPC knew this was happening

[olpfan1]

I hope you are not implying that this is even in the same league as adscam. Don't hold your breath on this being an issue next news cycle, let alone next election.

It could have the same impact as ad scam, we'll know in time, but if you think Canadians are taking this lightly you are sorely mistaken

[dre]

I have no problem for the 60% who don't bother to show up. You have to look at the result, which is a good one IMO.

I disagree. Majority governments arent necessarily a good thing at all, especially when they represent the interests of a minority. You wind up with radical laws like C10, C30, etc.

I had hoped we would never see another majority government again.

[olpfan1]

I have no problem for the 60% who don't bother to show up. You have to look at the result, which is a good one IMO.

I wouldn't call possible electoral fraud a "good one" result.

[Michael Hardner]

I disagree. Majority governments arent necessarily a good thing at all, especially when they represent the interests of a minority. You wind up with radical laws like C10, C30, etc.

I had hoped we would never see another majority government again.

Repatriation of the Constitution

The Free Trade Agreement

Could these have worked the same way without a large vision behind them backed up by a majority government ?

[Michael Hardner]

I wouldn't call possible electoral fraud a "good one" result.

Electoral fraud ? Not sure how that's related to the topic of voter participation.

[olpfan1]

This is the same guy that tried stealing a ballot box at a Guelph Uni.. why wasn't he fired then? why is he just being fired 9 or so months later?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/02/24/michael-sona-fired-guelph-eve-adams_n_1299791.html

Michael Sona, a young Conservative parliamentary staffer who worked on the federal election campaign in Guelph, Ontario, has been let go, The Huffington Post Canada has learned.

[olpfan1]

Are we seriously supposed to believe this young person who took a ballot box in open sight with cameras all around him orchestrated this robocall conspiracy?

I weep for anyone who believes that

Edited February 24, 2012 by olpfan1

[dre]

Repatriation of the Constitution

The Free Trade Agreement

Could these have worked the same way without a large vision behind them backed up by a majority government ?

I think that as long as a healthy majority of Canadians wanted those things, then yeah.

In any case, those were different times. People had a different relationship with government back then. In the digital age where the internet can bring down governments, and the obsession with law/order, security, terrorism, etc, the government sees people as a threat and they hate our freedom.

We dont trust them anymore, and they trust us even less. Minority governments in this environment are a just safer.

[Michael Hardner]

We dont trust them anymore, and they trust us even less. Minority governments in this environment are a just safer.

But to set up a system that essentially guarantees minority governments is a giant change with many unknowns. The system we have (FPTP) works well enough IMO.

[Jack Weber]

I hope you are not implying that this is even in the same league as adscam. Don't hold your breath on this being an issue next news cycle, let alone next election.

If we are strictly talking dollars and cents???

Probably not...

To the larger question of usurping democracy (which is far more important than dollars and cents) in an attempt to win a very close federal election and the potential ramifications for that???

This definately has the potential (key word) to hang over the Conservative party like Adscam hung over the Liberals...

That's assuming the general autocratic nature of the Harper Government does'nt turn enough people off in time.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Jack Weber