.

PIK · May 23, 2012

Oh for the good old days when Conservatives were "Progressive".

I wonder at times ... and hope ... that progressive Conservative MP's will remove themselves from the Harper Conservative party and re-identify and sit in the House as Progressive Conservatives ... reducing Harper's majority to a minority in the process.

It would mean not having access to Conservative Party funds, but it would also mean not being slimed by the party election fraud scandal. It would be a smart move for them to distance themselves ... soon.

I have real hope of this happening. I know the people you are talking about ... good people, mostly rural, who've always voted Progressive Conservative and now have been dragged into the toxic sludge of the HarperCon vicious and predatory mentality. The predaTories ...

Wouldn't it be nice ... Canadians of all stripes would stand up and cheer!

We do not want any more progressives, they have doen enough dmage to the country. To bad we could not push a button to see what would happen if harper did not win and we had a lib or NDP goverment. One thing for sure is cana would be getting the finger pointed at us instead of greece. Just imagine angry mulciar as PM, it would be ugly.

madmax · May 23, 2012

lib or NDP goverment. One thing for sure is cana would be getting the finger pointed at us instead of greece. Just imagine angry mulciar as PM, it would be ugly.

To be fair, we had a Liberal government and many people were happy with their fiscal resolve, but unhappy with downloading. The Liberals main failure was being to long in power, to arrogant, to entitled and add in a culmative set of poor judgement and criminal activity and they had to go.

(Much of which is sounding familiar to the present government if you follow this thread and threads like Oda, Bernier, McKay, and convictions in elections finances to start piling on the Conservative Camel)

That said the fiscal record of Martin vs Flaherty is pretty clear.

An NDP government imho, might be more fiscally responsible or it might be in a similar state to what flaherty has achieved. The only difference might be in job creation vs taxation. Thus the deficit is likely to be the same or lower if the NDP were in power. I don't have a crystal ball.

But one thing I do know. When people start running to Greece for cover.. their argument is to be dismissed as comedic hyperbole.

Edited May 23, 2012 by madmax

madmax · May 23, 2012

Come on, run to charlie for protection from some words. Grow up and quit acting like a baby. And if this gets me banned then so be it, It is actually embarressing to read the crying.

If you can't step up to the plate with sound arguments , reasoning and political insight.

You won't be missed.

I suggest you put a little more effort into your arguments instead of acting childish.

I am retracting this comment.... as you have done exactly that at the same time as i posted this.. lol.

my apologies..

Edited May 23, 2012 by madmax

PIK · May 23, 2012

To be fair, we had a Liberal government and many people were happy with their fiscal resolve, but unhappy with downloading. The Liberals main failure was being to long in power, to arrogant, to entitled and add in a culmative set of poor judgement and criminal activity and they had to go.

(Much of which is sounding familiar to the present government if you follow this thread and threads like Oda, Bernier, McKay, and convictions in elections finances to start piling on the Conservative Camel)

That said the fiscal record of Martin vs Flaherty is pretty clear.

An NDP government imho, might be more fiscally responsible or it might be in a similar state to what flaherty has achieved. The only difference might be in job creation vs taxation. Thus the deficit is likely to be the same or lower if the NDP were in power. I don't have a crystal ball.

But one thing I do know. When people start running to Greece for cover.. their argument is to be dismissed as comedic hyperbole.

I am not talking about that lib goverment, but the new one with dion or iggy at the helm. The NDP are a activist party, their people would not have a idea how to run a country as mulcair is proving to us everyday. And every goverment will have it's oda and such, we are all human, but overall spending by them is down, but the press would never tell you that.

mentalfloss · May 23, 2012

But one thing I do know. When people start running to Greece for cover.. their argument is to be dismissed as comedic hyperbole.

Greece is the new WMD.

waldo · May 23, 2012

That said the fiscal record of Martin vs Flaherty is pretty clear.

it most certainly is... over the most recent past 27 fiscal years, Canada ran a surplus only 41% of the time... with all but 2 of the 11 years having Paul Martin as either Minister of Finance or Prime Minister. Perhaps MLW member 'PIK' could contextualize this Canadian surplus/deficit history:

Smallc · May 23, 2012

Because we all know that Jim Flaherty created the 2008 global financial crisis which caused the deficit. I'm probably the biggest Paul Martin fan you'll ever find, but be at least somewhat fair.

waldo · May 23, 2012

Because we all know that Jim Flaherty created the 2008 global financial crisis which caused the deficit. I'm probably the biggest Paul Martin fan you'll ever find, but be at least somewhat fair.

oh... is this another veiled play for the "Opposition devils" made them do it? :lol:

Canuckistani · May 23, 2012

I think to be fair, we have to add Harper's infamous "If we were going to have a recession we would have had it by now."

Edited May 23, 2012 by Canuckistani

Smallc · May 23, 2012

oh... is this another veiled play for the "Opposition devils" made them do it?

No, the government was wrong to not implement any stimulus in the fiscal update. The opposition did the right thing forcing their hand...although they did it because of completely selfish reasons (and I also think that the government was wrong to eliminate the per vote subsidy).

Keepitsimple · May 23, 2012

No, the government was wrong to not implement any stimulus in the fiscal update. The opposition did the right thing forcing their hand...although they did it because of completely selfish reasons (and I also think that the government was wrong to eliminate the per vote subsidy).

There's poor ol' Waldo again - he never has a position of his own - he just criticizes others. Sort of like the mother-in-law from hell.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Keepitsimple

madmax · May 23, 2012

Because we all know that Jim Flaherty created the 2008 global financial crisis which caused the deficit. I'm probably the biggest Paul Martin fan you'll ever find, but be at least somewhat fair.

We are being fair (MASSIVE THREAD DRIFT)

Flaherty was handed a strong budget surplus in 2006.

In the next 2 years he underwhelmed, underachieved, and dipped into deficit.

If you wish to cut him slack for 2008, you might ask how much better off we would be if he hadn't blown the bank account in 2 years.

Sorry, Flaherty or the Conservatives have not been fiscally prudent.

And looking at the F35 debacle shows they have no ability to restrain themselves from pet projects and prisons.

Its a matter of Conservative priorities for big ticket spending and large deficits.

Soon to get back on Misdirection, Robocalls and Poutine.

Smallc · May 23, 2012

We are being fair (MASSIVE THREAD DRIFT)

Flaherty was handed a strong budget surplus in 2006.

In the next 2 years he underwhelmed, underachieved, and dipped into deficit.

That is some pretty revisionists history...and this is the most interesting thing so far in this thread.

As for the F-35, Paul Matin, I can pretty much promise you, would be doing nothing different. Paul Martin, as PM, did most of the increasing to defence spending that we see today.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Smallc

Smallc · May 23, 2012

There's poor ol' Waldo again - he never has a position of his own - he just criticizes others. Sort of like the mother-in-law from hell.

:lol:

madmax · May 23, 2012

As for the F-35, Paul Matin, I can pretty much promise you, would be doing nothing different. Paul Martin, as PM, did most of the increasing to defence spending that we see today.

Defence spending vs incompetent Defence Spending. Very Different.

will move conversation over to F35 thread.

Edited May 23, 2012 by madmax

madmax · May 23, 2012

Back on topic

Conservatives Ask Courts to Toss Out RoboCall Challenges.

The Conservative Party has asked a court to toss out a series of legal challenges that attempted to overturn the results in seven ridings last election, saying the litigation offers no solid evidence anyone was denied the right to vote.

A motion brought on behalf of the Conservative candidates who won the seats also claim in motions that that the legal action, brought by citizen advocacy group Council of Canadians, was filed well beyond the 30-day time limit.

Citing a pattern of misleading telephone calls made before the May 2 vote, the Council in March asked the Federal Court of Canada to set aside the result in seven ridings across the country, which would trigger a series of byelections.

Under the Elections Act, any voter can challenge a result by bringing evidence to court showing that electoral fraud or other improprieties affected the result in a riding. Last week, an Ontario court voided the results in Etobicoke-Centre after a challenge brought by losing Liberal candidate Borys Wrzesnewskyj. The court ruled there were enough clerical errors in the specific voter registrations to set the results aside.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Tories+court+throw+robocalls+challenge/6660654/story.html#ixzz1vifITrjO

waldo · May 23, 2012

There's poor ol' Waldo again - he never has a position of his own - he just criticizes others. Sort of like the mother-in-law from hell.

there's poor ol' Simple again - relegated to nothing more than a drive-by slam. It is heartening to realize my continual critique and drubbing of your GWCC... uhhh... positions, has you so flummoxed over and preoccupied with, the waldo! :lol:

waldo · May 23, 2012

There's poor ol' Waldo again - he never has a position of his own - he just criticizes others. Sort of like the mother-in-law from hell.

dueling chuckle-heads! :lol:

madmax · May 25, 2012

Conservatives say Professional Agitators behind the RoboCalls Legal fight.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tories-say-professional-agitators-behind-robo-calls-legal-fight/article2443180/comments/

A very desperate argument. I doubt the courts will toss out the case based on this strategy. There could be many other ways to rule on the 7 ridings, but the Conservatives sound desperate.

I was amused by this comment.

“Unlike the epithets thrown at their political opponents, we aren’t being accused of being Nazi sympathizers, or terrorists, or being on the side of the child pornographers,” he said.

“I only wish the Conservatives had put as much time and effort into their investigation of the robo-calls scandal as they’ve put into chastising the Council of Canadians.”

Fletch 27 · May 25, 2012

Sound sto me like Elections Canada is stating "nuthing to see here follks.. move along..)

Conservatives say Professional Agitators behind the RoboCalls Legal fight.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tories-say-professional-agitators-behind-robo-calls-legal-fight/article2443180/comments/

A very desperate argument. I doubt the courts will toss out the case based on this strategy. There could be many other ways to rule on the 7 ridings, but the Conservatives sound desperate.

I was amused by this comment.

“Unlike the epithets thrown at their political opponents, we aren’t being accused of being Nazi sympathizers, or terrorists, or being on the side of the child pornographers,” he said.

“I only wish the Conservatives had put as much time and effort into their investigation of the robo-calls scandal as they’ve put into chastising the Council of Canadians.”

socialist · May 25, 2012

shorter PIK: "Oh! Look! A Squirrel!"

4 more years and Mulcair will become PM. Mulcair is what this country needs; a great, honest leader that can unite all Canadians.

Fletch 27 · May 25, 2012

LOLOL! Mulcair is EXACTLY what Quebec needs! Your so blind... Unite Canada????? Maybe you havent seen his comments about the West! Are you for real??????????? Anyone west of Cornwall with a glimmer of grey-matter in the cranium want this guy to remian just where he is.... Quebec

4 more years and Mulcair will become PM. Mulcair is what this country needs; a great, honest leader that can unite all Canadians.

Topaz · May 25, 2012

The Alliance/Tories are trying to get the robocalls situation thrown out of court brought on by a citizen group. We MUST find out which party or person are behind this if we are going to have a fair and honest elections. The more the Tory do things to stop any way of doing so, makes them look guilty, and so far, they are the only party doing so. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/conservatives-move-again-robocalls-suits-tossed-031922089.html

socialist · May 25, 2012

LOLOL! Mulcair is EXACTLY what Quebec needs! Your so blind... Unite Canada????? Maybe you havent seen his comments about the West! Are you for real??????????? Anyone west of Cornwall with a glimmer of grey-matter in the cranium want this guy to remian just where he is.... Quebec

The West is becoming more and more left-wing. next election you will see the "real" orange wave. We haven't seen a great leader in the likes of Mulcair in ages. Mulcair will make sure all Canadians are provided for. Those households making over 90 K a year (the rich) will have to finally pay their share to make all Canadians equal.50% of their income should be taxed in order to help those who need the help.

The greedy rich capitalist pigs need to pay for the damage they have inflicted on the poor, needy, and the environment. 2015 canada will finally become a great country with equality for all.

Fletch 27 · May 25, 2012

You are off your rocker... You are a great consumer of that Koolaid..

You do understand that the average AFTER TAX houshold income is 79,000 dollars right? Well above you 90K.. You think that 50% of the population is going to Listen to a proposal such as that (that smacks of communism?). If your stating that 50% of Canadains are Rich, Sure looks like Steve Harper is doing a better than expected Job huh?

The West is becoming more and more left-wing. next election you will see the "real" orange wave. We haven't seen a great leader in the likes of Mulcair in ages. Mulcair will make sure all Canadians are provided for. Those households making over 90 K a year (the rich) will have to finally pay their share to make all Canadians equal.50% of their income should be taxed in order to help those who need the help.

The greedy rich capitalist pigs need to pay for the damage they have inflicted on the poor, needy, and the environment. 2015 canada will finally become a great country with equality for all.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Fletch 27