.

jacee · May 8, 2012

I'm quite familiar with the contents of the article. Once again I will ask a very simple question. Has Elections Canada said that the Conservative Party of Canada is not cooperating with the investigation? A simple yes or no would do.

As you well know, Elections Canada won't be saying anything until their investigation is completed.

As I understand discussion boards, we're having a discussion about the information that's coming out in news reports from unidentified sources, as is usual during investigations.

I got to read your post before you edited it. I suppose you realized you were over the top in accusing me of covering up fraud. You really should take a breath and quit escalating matters to a personal level. It does nothing to raise the quality of your observations and opinions.

:lol:

Nothing personal intended.

It doesn't really matter if you choose to deny/cover up for election fraud here does it?

It's just a discussion board.

They're just opinions.

capricorn · May 8, 2012

As you well know, Elections Canada won't be saying anything until their investigation is completed.

I'm not expecting anything official coming out of EC until the work is complete and EC has confirmed that. Yet, there are plenty of leaks to the media by "sources close to the investigation". If there was any evidence at all that the party was uncooperative, I fully expect one of the "sources" would leak it to the media who would report it.

Nothing personal intended.

Of course it's intended. You think I was born yesterday?

It doesn't really matter if you choose to deny/cover up for election fraud here does it?

Let me guess, nothing personal intended, right? :lol:

madmax · May 8, 2012

Nothing personal intended.

It doesn't really matter if you choose to deny/cover up for election fraud here does it?

It's just a discussion board.

They're just opinions.

Erm, it was personal...

And Capricorn was covering nothing up... just pushing you towards a specific answer to a specific question.

That is not covering up.

jacee · May 8, 2012

I'm not expecting anything official coming out of EC until the work is complete and EC has confirmed that. Yet, there are plenty of leaks to the media by "sources close to the investigation". If there was any evidence at all that the party was uncooperative, I fully expect one of the "sources" would leak it to the media who would report it.

Yes I believe they are suggesting that the very secure and highly monitored CIMS database that tracks every keystroke, every record accessed has some very critical tracking entries are missing for one user at the national party hq for a logon session that included the download of the Guelph robocall list.

The speculation would be that perhaps other lists were also downloaded for robocall purposes during that session, but the tracking log for that session is blank.

Then there was the phone call from party hq at that time to RackNine, but the details of that call have not been provided to the reporters despite repeated requests, though others were clarified.

And yes, the information comes from unidentified inside sources.

This is my speculation from statements in the article such as these:

Elections Canada investigators ... have been asking questions about the actions of staff at Conservative party headquarters in Ottawa.

... trying to determine why database records provided by the party appear to be missing entries that could help identify who downloaded the phone numbers used to make fraudulent robocalls ...

...

The logs show blanks between this person's CIMS logon and logoff on the day the Guelph data was accessed ...

...

The call from Rougier's phone to RackNine is the only one the party has failed to explain in detail to reporters, in spite of repeated requests.

...

The fact that Elections Canada is making inquiries about activities in the Conservative war room appears to conflict with the conclusion of an internal probe, led by Conservative party lawyer Arthur Hamilton ...

And of course an internal party investigation would only be to find out if the party was 'exposed' at all ... and to minimize any 'exposure' ... perhaps by deleting some records ... ?

Of course it's intended. You think I was born yesterday?

Let me guess, nothing personal intended, right?

Good grief capricorn, how could I know that you would consider the election fraud coverup "personal" !! :lol:

But thanks to your comments I have had to reciew the information repeatedly and I see exactly what the investigators are investigating at national Conservative party headquarters 'war room' in Ottawa.

CIMS monitoring records have been deleted for the downloads related to the Guelph and possibly other fraudulent robocalls, and the content of a phone call to RackNine at that time is at issue.

Frankly the only question left in my mind is whether Harper will fall on his own sword :lol: or stick it in somebody else and label him a 'rogue robocaller'.

I expect it'll be the latter.

.

Edited May 8, 2012 by jacee

Vendetta · May 8, 2012

Remember when the Cons were doing their own "investigation"? A while back they said they were going through their call logs looking for irregularites. I said it then and it seems I was right, they were looking for evidence to delete.

madmax · May 8, 2012

Good grief capricorn, how could I know that you would consider the election fraud coverup "personal" !!

You expressed that Capricorn was covering up and in deniel of election fraud.

Do not twist words. It reduces your credibility.

Capricorn does not have to take your position at facevalue.... infact, if you read through this entire thread, you would see that by NOT jumping to conclusions capricorns reserved approach has proven correct.

Regardless, it does NOT look good for the Conservatives and some of them are going to go down.. IMHO.

madmax · May 8, 2012

Remember when the Cons were doing their own "investigation"? A while back they said they were going through their call logs looking for irregularites. I said it then and it seems I was right, they were looking for evidence to delete.

yup I remember...

And if the speculation is correct, that information cannot be deleted with an administrators aid. If that occurred, even without finding the original deleted log, it is not going to be a good time for the Sys Admin...

jacee · May 8, 2012

Regardless, it does NOT look good for the Conservatives and some of them are going to go down.. IMHO.

On that we agree.

jacee · May 11, 2012

Billing records cast doubt on culprits behind campaign robocalls

David Kawai, Ottawa Citizen OTTAWA — A comparison of Rogers billing records shows that "Pierre Poutine" did not use a computer in the headquarters of a Conservative candidate in Guelph, Ont., to aunch the election day robocalls, casting doubt on the theory that any of the campaign workers could be the culprit. Data provided to Elections Canada nvestigators has linked a Rogers account to the Internet Protocol (IP) address used by the robocalls suspect to log onto RackNine, the Edmonton-based voice broadcaster that transmitted more than 7,000 misleading calls telling voters their polling station had moved.

...

Their investigation hit a dead end when they tried to get security camera video from the Shoppers Drug Mart locations where the disposable pre-paid credit cards that funded the calls were purchased. The company's oss prevention unit said the records had been erased by the time Elections Canada came calling, nearly a year after the fact An attempt to trace Poutine's IP address through the Saskatchewan proxy server which hides originating IP addresses, also failed because the records had been erased ong before.

A dead end ... ?

That would be terribly disappointing.

Edited May 11, 2012 by jacee

Signals.Cpl · May 11, 2012

Billing records cast doubt on culprits behind campaign robocalls

David Kawai, Ottawa Citizen OTTAWA — A comparison of Rogers billing records shows that "Pierre Poutine" did not use a computer in the headquarters of a Conservative candidate in Guelph, Ont., to aunch the election day robocalls, casting doubt on the theory that any of the campaign workers could be the culprit. Data provided to Elections Canada nvestigators has linked a Rogers account to the Internet Protocol (IP) address used by the robocalls suspect to log onto RackNine, the Edmonton-based voice broadcaster that transmitted more than 7,000 misleading calls telling voters their polling station had moved.

...

Their investigation hit a dead end when they tried to get security camera video from the Shoppers Drug Mart locations where the disposable pre-paid credit cards that funded the calls were purchased. The company's oss prevention unit said the records had been erased by the time Elections Canada came calling, nearly a year after the fact An attempt to trace Poutine's IP address through the Saskatchewan proxy server which hides originating IP addresses, also failed because the records had been erased ong before.

A dead end ... ?

That would be terribly disappointing.

Why?

madmax · May 11, 2012

Why?

Because most people want to see the culprits caught... <_<

jacee · May 11, 2012

Because most people want to see the culprits caught...

Yup.

Right now it looks like the most damning evidence is at national Conservative headquarters.

Missing tracking data for the robocall downloads, and an unexplained phone call to RackNine from Chris Rougier's phone.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/touch/news/story.html?id=6468552

In an affidavit filed to obtain a production order to trace the email account used by the culprit in Guelph, Mathews [investigator] wrote that Meier [RackNine] set up the account after he received a phone call from someone who gave him a reference.

"Pierre initially called Meier on Meier's unlisted extension directly and asked for him by name," Mathews wrote. "Pierre referred to knowing someone in the Conservative Party. In Meier's view, these facts meant that someone must have given Pierre his contact nformation."

Meier has not revealed what name was cited by the person establishing the fake account.

So Rack Nine knows the name of the party "reference" for the Pierre Poutine fake account, but hasn't told the Elections Canada investigators. I wonder what it will take to get the name.

It is now apparent that it's someone at the national party headquarters that ran the fraudulent robocall campaign.

Edited May 11, 2012 by jacee

cybercoma · May 11, 2012

Why?

Seriously, why!? Are you f'ing kidding me? Because it's clear that there was massive election fraud going on and people on both sides of the aisle should want the culprits lost. That the Conservatives and their supporters are willing to contort themselves to try and slough this off is very telling.

Signals.Cpl · May 11, 2012

Because most people want to see the culprits caught...

It seems to me she was disappointed that they couldn't nail the Conservatives as a whole.I am all for catching the guilty party but I personally think this is blown way out of proportions in order to pin it on the conservative Party. What it comes down to is would any of you be satisfied with the answer if it is proven the Conservatives did not have anything to do with the calls as a whole.

Shakeyhands · May 11, 2012

It seems to me she was disappointed that they couldn't nail the Conservatives as a whole.I am all for catching the guilty party but I personally think this is blown way out of proportions in order to pin it on the conservative Party. What it comes down to is would any of you be satisfied with the answer if it is proven the Conservatives did not have anything to do with the calls as a whole.

seriously? This duck must be talking & walking like a dog to you...

Edited May 11, 2012 by Shakeyhands

PIK · May 11, 2012

A set up by soneone on the left.If it was the cons we would have known by now, they just are not looking in the right direction.

Signals.Cpl · May 11, 2012

seriously? This duck must be talking & walking like a dog to you...

I know the process, get the evidence and it will tell you who is guilty. As opposed to accusing someone of guilt and then fitting the evidence to "prove" your case.

jacee · May 11, 2012

I know the process, get the evidence and it will tell you who is guilty. As opposed to accusing someone of guilt and then fitting the evidence to "prove" your case.

I don't think you've read any links to know what the evidence is, Cpl.

The names, computers and phone being investigated all belong to Conservative party operatives.

The database used to download the lists of non-Con supporters belongs to the national Con party. The records tracking the user(s) who downloaded those lists were deleted at national Con headquarters. The purpose of one phone call to RackNine from headquarters has not been divulged. The name of the person who referred the robocaller ('Pierre') to RackNine has not been divulged but is a Con party operative.

That's a summary. See the link above for more details.

If you read the links provided so you can make more informed comments and avoid wild accusations against other members.

Edited May 11, 2012 by jacee

Signals.Cpl · May 11, 2012

I don't think you've read any links to know what the evidence is, Cpl.

The names, computers and phone being investigated all belong to Conservative party operatives.

The database used to download the lists of non-Con supporters belongs to the national Con party. The records tracking the user(s) who downloaded those lists were deleted at national Con headquarters. The purpose of one phone call to RackNine from headquarters has not been divulged. The name of the person who referred the robocaller ('Pierre') to RackNine has not been divulged but is a Con party operative.

That's a summary. See the link above for more details.

If you read the links provided so you can make more informed comments and avoid wild accusations against other members.

First thing out of the anti-Conservative crowd was they are guilty so they went out and moulded the evidence to fit the accused thus all the evidence is to one level or another tainted.

jacee · May 11, 2012

First thing out of the anti-Conservative crowd was they are guilty so they went out and moulded the evidence to fit the accused thus all the evidence is to one level or another tainted.

Are you accusing Elections Canada of biased investigation?

Please review whatever evidence you can google and tell us how it points any other direction except at national Conservative operatives.

Shakeyhands · May 11, 2012

First thing out of the anti-Conservative crowd was they are guilty so they went out and moulded the evidence to fit the accused thus all the evidence is to one level or another tainted.

Cite to back that up?

Signals.Cpl · May 11, 2012

Cite to back that up?

First thing out of the mouth of the NDP propaganda was that the Conservatives did it, it couldn't possibly be the Liberals setting up the Conservatives or the NDP covering a bigger discrepancy it must be the Conservatives.When people have a suspected culprit in mind then they disregard evidence that might prove their innocence. The dead end in one part of the investigation might prove that the Conservatives were innocent and that it was another organization responsible for the event in question, but some people will never be satisfied with the conservatives being proven innocent.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Signals.Cpl

PIK · May 11, 2012

Are you accusing Elections Canada of biased investigation?

Please review whatever evidence you can google and tell us how it points any other direction except at national Conservative operatives.

The same EC that when it raided the con HQ's over the in and out BS, that somehow the CBC reporters and camera men were there before the police arrived, yes they are biased. I think most people can figure that one out.

May 11, 2012

More doubt as to guilty party.

Pierre Poutine’ mystery deepens as billing records cast doubt on robocall culprits

So there ya go, it was ___________ ________________- and ________

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/11/pierre-poutine-mystery-deepens-as-billing-records-cast-doubt-on-robocall-culprits/

bleeding heart · May 11, 2012

I stated a fact. Are you disputing that the longer the investigation lasts, the more money will be earned by the extra bodies hired by EC to work on the investigation?

You're the one who insists that any speculaiton about possible Conservative wrongdoing is...well, wrong.

But speculation about those EC fatcats....that's reasonable.