Time for a Little Political Incorrectness

[cybercoma]

My obvious point is that English-speakers in Quebec are subject to discrimination. As are English-speakers in Federal civil service.

Gee, jbg. Cree-speakers are discriminated against from coast to coast.

[jbg]

Gee, jbg. Cree-speakers are discriminated against from coast to coast.

But are Cree speakers prevented from advertising in Cree if they want to? Or using Cree in the work place if they have 50 or more employees?

Oh I forgot, in Quebec they are.

[Moonlight Graham]

Has anyone bothered to wonder why very few people immigrate to Asia, Africa or South America? I suppose there is little curiosity on that subject.

People don't immigrate to those continents because most of the countries there are not very well economically developed. Why move to a poor country when you can go to a rich country? It has little to do with culture.

If I could move to a country with a standard of living twice as high as Canada I would walk around in a bra and diapers if that was part of their culture.

[Black Dog]

No one was killed at Abu Ghraib.

Say what?

[Black Dog]

Though it would be pretty great if jbg could keep his musings confined to this thread and not let the toilet bowl overflow onto the rest of the board.

[jacee]

Though it would be pretty great if jbg could keep his musings confined to this thread and not let the toilet bowl overflow onto the rest of the board.

Agreed ... jbg's big fat omnibus thread ... for everything he ever wanted to biatch about.

Good plan!

[CANADIEN]

I'm aiming at the fact that a primarily English education is available in Quebec only if one of the parents is an English speaker.

Actually,you don't have it quite right. Education in English in Quebec is limited to children who at least one parent or sibling or themselves have received education in English in Quebec or in Canada. In theory, someone could immigrate from let's say France to Vancouver, have their child educated for two years in english, then move to Quebec and that child would be eligible to attend English school.

We both agree that each person in Quebec should be left to decide if their education and that of their children will be in English or French (for different reasons, obviously). That being said, do yourself a favour and get your facts straight, will you?

I'm furious, personally, at paying taxes in my neck of the woods to teach curricular subject in Spanish rather than English. People really need to be under pressure to use the majority language.

I will not comment on language policies in the US, as they're none of my business. Interesting comment about the need for people to be pressured into using the majority language. Should I take that as meaning that French-speaking Canadians, in particular those outside Quebec, should not be able to attend French schools? Have to check, because then that would be a prime example of bigoted double standard on your part.

P.S; OF course you know that english is taught in French schools all across Canada. Therefore, kids in those schools DO learn English. You know that, don't you?

[CANADIEN]

Why should a Canadian of Muslim faith who has no criminal intent whatsoeverbe forced to snake through interminable security delays and submit to strip searches, rather than allowing people who share the name, religious backgroud or thnic background has people who bomb government offices in Oklahoma City or kill teenagers point blank in Oslo to be targeted?

Now, I am sure some will think this is a stupd idea. And guess what, they are entirely right. But then, it is equally stupid when other groups of people are being talked about.

Intelligent airport surveillance would involve intelligence (and intelligent) work, and monitoring of suspect behaviour. Instead, we are offered the coice between treating everyone as a possible criminal, or treating certain people as automatic possible criminals based on their religious background or ethnicity. One solution is idiotic, the other one even more so in addition to being ignorant.

Edited February 3, 2012 by CANADIEN

[guyser]

Some things truly make you wonder.

Quite true, like 'why would one post such an inane post full of shit'?

Ya know....like that.

[Army Guy]

Education is a provincial responsibility. Canada has two official languages. I'll let you guess which one is hte majority language in Quebec.

And while Canada has 2 official languages Quebec only has one.

The Charter of the French Language (La charte de la langue française, in French), also known as Bill 101 and Loi 101, is a law in the province of Quebec in Canada defining French, the language of the majority of the population, as the only official language of Quebec, and framing fundamental language rights for everyone in the province. It is the central legislative piece in Quebec's language policy.

What does that have to do with your point about education? You're talking about something entirely different now. As for the rights of anglophones in Quebec, they can be taught in English, which youv'e already noted.

Provided they meet the guidelines set out in the Canada act, if they do not then they are forced into the french system.

Quebec has publicly funded French and English schools.

Under the Charter of the French Language, passed in 1977, all students must attend French-language public schools except:

children who have done most of their elementary or secondary studies in English elsewhere in Canada;

children whose father, mother, or grandparents did most of his or her elementary studies in English anywhere in Canada; (You must have proof of this, which means if you are coming from another province in Canada, you must get either your elementary transcripts and/or your high school transcripts to prove that one of the parents has attended an English school in Canada or your child will be rejected)

and/or

children of Canadian citizens (Canada Clause) whose brother or sister did or is doing his or her elementary or secondary studies in English anywhere in Canada; (proof of this will be needed if are coming from another province in Canada)

temporary residents of Quebec;

First Nation children;

However english Canadians that have 2 or 3 gens of living in Quebec,may be forced into the french school systems. There is however private schools one could pay for.

And while English is a topic taught in the french school system one would have to ask just how effective it is, and that works in reverse as well how effective is teaching french in english schools ..not very...

perhaps the piont he is trying to make is that there is a double standard for Quebec as a whole...when compared to other provinces, Our Language laws are not the same across the board, or atleast don't look that way...

[cybercoma]

The only officially bilingual province is New Brunswick.

[Army Guy]

Also a piont to note the only province with only one offical language is Quebec.

[cybercoma]

None of the other provinces are bilingual, so I'm not sure what your point is.

[Army Guy]

Here is the piont, Canada's offical language policy is that there is 2 offical languages one being english and the other french.

All the other provinces follow this policy with exception of Quebec....New Brunswick is the only province that has taken it steps further by declaring itself Bilingual..one would have hoped that this leadership would have come from Quebec as they are suppose to be keepers of the french language, instead they have gone the opposite direction and declared itself with only one offical language that being french...

[CANADIEN]

Here is the piont, Canada's offical language policy is that there is 2 offical languages one being english and the other french.

All the other provinces follow this policy with exception of Quebec....New Brunswick is the only province that has taken it steps further by declaring itself Bilingual..one would have hoped that this leadership would have come from Quebec as they are suppose to be keepers of the french language, instead they have gone the opposite direction and declared itself with only one offical language that being french...

Axctually, NO province except New Brunswick has a bilingual policy. Many have policies for the delivery of SOME services in French.

As far as official language status goes... The first province to proclaim one language as official was Manitoba (Official Language Act, 1890). Today, while the term "official" is not used, one doesn't need to see that word to realize that the status of English in most provinces is akin to that of a sole official language.

[Scotty]

[*]Why are cash and job-strapped places such as New York resisting the opportunity to produce natural gas through fracking? Such a process would bring rivers of moneys into State and local treasuries, frequently in distressed areas. As a side benefit it would reduce regional and national dependence on imported oil.

And as a side benefit, you can heat your house by setting fire to your tap water...

[jbg]

Axctually, NO province except New Brunswick has a bilingual policy. Many have policies for the delivery of SOME services in French.

And as a side benefit, you can heat your house by setting fire to your tap water...

Ah, at least one post on a "PC" problem besides bi-lingualism. I meant this thread to be about counterproductive, politically correct policies where we need to say "dead stop" rather than another one purely about language policy.

[Scotty]

Ah, at least one post on a "PC" problem besides bi-lingualism. I meant this thread to be about counterproductive, politically correct policies where we need to say "dead stop" rather than another one purely about language policy.

How is not wanting my water to be flammable politically correct?

Did you ever see Gasland?

[cybercoma]

How is not wanting my water to be flammable politically correct?

Did you ever see Gasland?

While I can appreciate the concerns raised in Gasland that scene was actually misleading. Fracking can and has contaminated ground water. However, the flaming water in that scene is the result of naturally occurring methane, which had been there well before they began fracking. Like I said, though, there are still well-documented problems with the process and that doesn't mean that water is not contaminated by fracking. It's just that this scene was misleading sensationalism, likely used to promote the film.

Edited February 4, 2012 by cybercoma

[jbg]

How is not wanting my water to be flammable politically correct?

Did you ever see Gasland?

I'm not necessarily saying that fracking doesn't have its share of problems. Frankly all energy production methods going back to cave men's campfires (which could spread) have problems.

[Scotty]

I'm not necessarily saying that fracking doesn't have its share of problems. Frankly all energy production methods going back to cave men's campfires (which could spread) have problems.

Well, this one seems to have more than most, especially given the gas companies don't have to tell anyone what's in the chemicals they're pumping into the ground. And as there is such an oversupply of gas I don't think there is so much urgency we should be doing it without further environmental assessments.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Scotty

[Army Guy]

CANADIEN

Axctually, NO province except New Brunswick has a bilingual policy.

I did cover this in my post.

Many have policies for the delivery of SOME services in French.

The Federal government has set in place regulations establishing linguistic categories (anglophone, francophone, bilingual) for some job functions within the public service. Departments and agencies of the federal government are required to fill these positions with individuals who are capable of serving the public in English, in French, or in both languages. Unilingual public servants are given incentives to learn the other official language, and the government provides language training and offers a "bilingualism bonus".

This provides a legal definition for the otherwise vague requirement that services be provided in the minority official languages wherever there is "significant demand." The definition used in the regulations is complex, but basically an area of the country is served in both languages if at least 5,000 persons in that area, or 5% of the local population (whichever is smaller), belongs to that province's English or French linguistic minority population

From time to time, the Official Languages Commissioner draws attention to the fact that federal agencies subject to the law are failing to live up to their legal obligations regarding official languages. In a report published in 2004 on the 35th anniversary of the Official Languages Act, Commissioner Dyane Adam noted that only 86% of posts designated "bilingual" in the federal public service were occupied by person who had effectively mastered the two official languages. Although this is far from perfect, it represents an improvement over the situation 26 years earlier in 1978, when only 70% of the incumbents in posts that had been designated "bilingual" were capable of speaking both languages at accepted levels.[11]

Those services provided are covered in the following laws

The Act[3] provides, among other things,

that Canadians have the right to receive services from federal departments and from Crown corporations in both official languages;

that Canadians will be able to be heard before federal courts in the official language of their choice;

that Parliament will adopt laws and to publish regulations in both official languages, and that both versions will be of equal legal weight;

that English and French will have equal status of languages of work within the federal public service within geographically defined parts of the country that are designated bilingual (most notably in National Capital Region, Montreal and New Brunswick), as well as in certain overseas government offices and in parts of the country where there is sufficient demand for services in both official languages. In remaining geographical areas, the language of work for federal public servants is French (in Quebec) and English (elsewhere);

As far as official language status goes... The first province to proclaim one language as official was Manitoba (Official Language Act, 1890). Today, while the term "official" is not used, one doesn't need to see that word to realize that the status of English in most provinces is akin to that of a sole official language.

But in 1985 it was forced to make changes...as laid out in the Offical language act

Manitoba, which is home to Canada’s third-largest French-speaking minority, refused to overturn its ban on the use of French in both the provincial legislature and its courts (which had been in effect since 1890), until it was forced to do so in 1985 by a ruling by the Supreme Court of Canada (Reference re Manitoba Language Rights) that the province was under a constitutional obligation to enact laws in French as well as in English.

Quebec, which is home to an English-speaking minority of over half a million, had traditionally been the only province which was generous in its treatment of its minority-language population, and for this reason had been cited by the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism as the model to be emulated by other provinces. But in the 1970s the provincial legislature adopted two laws, the Official Language Act (better-known at the time as "Bill 22") and the Charter of the French Language (better-known as "Bill 101"), reducing the access of Quebecers to English-language services, preventing immigrants and Francophones from enrolling their children in English classes, requiring that French be made the language of the workplace, and even restricting the use of English on commercial signs.

link

[CANADIEN]

CANADIEN

I did cover this in my post.

The Federal government has set in place regulations establishing linguistic categories (anglophone, francophone, bilingual) for some job functions within the public service. Departments and agencies of the federal government are required to fill these positions with individuals who are capable of serving the public in English, in French, or in both languages. Unilingual public servants are given incentives to learn the other official language, and the government provides language training and offers a "bilingualism bonus".

This provides a legal definition for the otherwise vague requirement that services be provided in the minority official languages wherever there is "significant demand." The definition used in the regulations is complex, but basically an area of the country is served in both languages if at least 5,000 persons in that area, or 5% of the local population (whichever is smaller), belongs to that province's English or French linguistic minority population

From time to time, the Official Languages Commissioner draws attention to the fact that federal agencies subject to the law are failing to live up to their legal obligations regarding official languages. In a report published in 2004 on the 35th anniversary of the Official Languages Act, Commissioner Dyane Adam noted that only 86% of posts designated "bilingual" in the federal public service were occupied by person who had effectively mastered the two official languages. Although this is far from perfect, it represents an improvement over the situation 26 years earlier in 1978, when only 70% of the incumbents in posts that had been designated "bilingual" were capable of speaking both languages at accepted levels.[11]

Those services provided are covered in the following laws

The Act[3] provides, among other things,

that Canadians have the right to receive services from federal departments and from Crown corporations in both official languages;

that Canadians will be able to be heard before federal courts in the official language of their choice;

that Parliament will adopt laws and to publish regulations in both official languages, and that both versions will be of equal legal weight;

that English and French will have equal status of languages of work within the federal public service within geographically defined parts of the country that are designated bilingual (most notably in National Capital Region, Montreal and New Brunswick), as well as in certain overseas government offices and in parts of the country where there is sufficient demand for services in both official languages. In remaining geographical areas, the language of work for federal public servants is French (in Quebec) and English (elsewhere);

But in 1985 it was forced to make changes...as laid out in the Offical language act

link

Thank you for reminding me of something I already know about, the FEDERAL Official Language Act. Now, feel free to show me the bilingual policies of the Governments of Ontario and British Columbia.

BTW, the Constitution mandates that Manitoba laws be in English and French, not the Official Languages Act.

[jbg]

Thank you for reminding me of something I already know about, the FEDERAL Official Language Act. Now, feel free to show me the bilingual policies of the Governments of Ontario and British Columbia.

BTW, the Constitution mandates that Manitoba laws be in English and French, not the Official Languages Act.

From what I gather, the OLA was incorporated into the Charter of Selective Rights and Fickle Freedoms.

[waldo]

From what I gather, the OLA was incorporated into the Charter of Selective Rights and Fickle Freedoms.

no - not the act proper; rather it's principles were incorporated into various sections of the Charter. By the by, what allows a foreign interloper like you to offer an a-hole reference to "Fickle", hey? Oh, that's right... you're actually from Ajax Ontario!