World Economy towards OWO

[Topaz]

I found a interesting video and I can see with reports coming out of Davos that the path to One world Order and One world currency has started. Watch the video and see if you agree or not agree. BTW, one of Tory's PR guys even talked about Harper going to Davos and the One world Order on CTV. http://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?p=economic+crisis+one+world+order

[Shady]

BTW, one of Tory's PR guys even talked about Harper going to Davos and the One world Order on CTV.

Omg, a PR guy even talked about Harper going to Davos! Holy crap!

[sharkman]

So Topaz, is OWO a good or bad thing.

[Topaz]

So Topaz, is OWO a good or bad thing.

That's a very good question and I would think if it was GOOD wouldn't nations come out and talk about it openly? So by the video, its ONE currency for the whole world, so what happens when they switch to the new. Do all present currency become worthless? So many questions and no answers, just secrets.

[Topaz]

Omg, a PR guy even talked about Harper going to Davos! Holy crap!

You missed the point, it wasn't going to Davos, we knew that he was, it was the point he said Harper was going there and talk about the new world order.

[Michael Hardner]

OWO is happening anyway, as business moves across borders and demands that legislative framework is in place to support their activities. Everything will flow from that, as all social movements flow with economics.

[eyeball]

OWO is happening anyway, as business moves across borders and demands that legislative framework is in place to support their activities. Everything will flow from that, as all social movements flow with economics.

What social movement?

The OWO is for the benefit of corporations people not human beings.

Edited January 27, 2012 by eyeball

[eyeball]

So is the OWO really the common name for this supra or extra-national economic bureaucracy with more interconnected revolving doors spinning round each other than a Swiss watch has gears?

Is it the 1%, or something more like the Borg or just the invisible hand rolled up into a fist? Political scientist Benjamin Barber coined the term McWorld maybe that's it.

[Michael Hardner]

What social movement?

Any social movement, I submit, happens in an economic context.

[eyeball]

Any social movement, I submit, happens in an economic context.

I think that's a two way street and the economy happens in a social context. If anything the street is uphill and society is labouring to push the economy ahead of it. The fact that both are equally dependent on the planet's ecosystems clinches this twinned relationship.

In any case I think the movement towards one planet-wide system of governance is inevitable but whether it will be a human driven or capital thing is still up in the air. That the planet's environment is still viewed by capital as something that's superficial and external to the planet's economy doesn't bode well.

Edited January 27, 2012 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

In any case I think the movement towards one planet-wide system of governance is inevitable but whether it will be a human driven or capital thing is still up in the air.

They're interwoven into a magical tapestry. Globalization brings countries like China, India and Russia closer to us economically and socially.

We don't need to pass a good/bad judgement on globalization, and it's pointless to do so anyway. It's not going to go away soon. We can look at all of the effects and see how we can amplify those that we like.

[eyeball]

They're interwoven into a magical tapestry. Globalization brings countries like China, India and Russia closer to us economically and socially.

It also seems to bring us closer to them environmentally and autocratically.

We don't need to pass a good/bad judgement on globalization, and it's pointless to do so anyway. It's not going to go away soon. We can look at all of the effects and see how we can amplify those that we like.

And ignore the one's we don't like at our peril?

[dre]

They're interwoven into a magical tapestry. Globalization brings countries like China, India and Russia closer to us economically and socially.

We don't need to pass a good/bad judgement on globalization, and it's pointless to do so anyway. It's not going to go away soon. We can look at all of the effects and see how we can amplify those that we like.

Actually thats entirely unclear. Voluntary trade between nations has gone on for thousands of years and will continue. Its not new and modern free trade agreement were not required for it to happen. But what a lot of people consider "globalization" today is the trend we have seen in the last 30 years where large consumer markets are offshoring production. This trend is by its very nature a temporary thing. Its pretty easy to see why an arrangement where massive ammounts of real goods flow from one countrie to another and nothing flows back in the other direction besides printed bits of paper isnt going to last very long.

Two things are going to happen. First of all youre going to see a correction in the value of national legal tender (fiat currency), and all the countries playing this game are going to see significantly diminished purchasing power. Diminished puraching power means domestic goods get cheaper and imported goods get more expensive. If the Chinese allowed their currency to float, then already goods from China would be almost %300 as expensive, and production dedicated to supplying western consumer markets would already be returning. The second thing is that energy costs are increasing, about 8-10% per year, and a gigantic ammount of energy is expended moving all these goods around the global.

Think about it. Once all these adjustments happen do you really think its going to make sense for someone in Vancouver to eat snow peas grown in China? They will cost MORE than ones grown in BC. If China stopped its currency peg, they would already disappear from the shelves.

I predict the opposite trend. I think that once wages equalize, currency values adjust, and energy costs continue to rise over the next couple of decades, that we are going to see a rebirth of THE LOCAL ECONOMY.

People should know better than to take a 30 year trend (one that has brought the global economy to the brink of collapse, and resulted in massive global debt to future generations) and suddenly declare this is a permanent sea change. I bet the Romans thought that too, when they were importing all their food and goods from all over the empire with ever depreciating dollars.

[Michael Hardner]

Actually thats entirely unclear. Voluntary trade between nations has gone on for thousands of years and will continue. Its not new and modern free trade agreement were not required for it to happen. But what a lot of people consider "globalization" today is the trend we have seen in the last 30 years where large consumer markets are offshoring production. This trend is by its very nature a temporary thing. Its pretty easy to see why an arrangement where massive ammounts of real goods flow from one countrie to another and nothing flows back in the other direction besides printed bits of paper isnt going to last very long.

It's a temporary thing because the large global economic disparity is new. Globalization will work to even this out.

Two things are going to happen. First of all youre going to see a correction in the value of national legal tender (fiat currency), and all the countries playing this game are going to see significantly diminished purchasing power. Diminished puraching power means domestic goods get cheaper and imported goods get more expensive. If the Chinese allowed their currency to float, then already goods from China would be almost %300 as expensive, and production dedicated to supplying western consumer markets would already be returning. The second thing is that energy costs are increasing, about 8-10% per year, and a gigantic ammount of energy is expended moving all these goods around the global.

Whenever we go to this, I don't understand. Does this mean the price of Chinese exports will rise or fall ?

Think about it. Once all these adjustments happen do you really think its going to make sense for someone in Vancouver to eat snow peas grown in China? They will cost MORE than ones grown in BC. If China stopped its currency peg, they would already disappear from the shelves.

See question above.

I predict the opposite trend. I think that once wages equalize, currency values adjust, and energy costs continue to rise over the next couple of decades, that we are going to see a rebirth of THE LOCAL ECONOMY.

Yes, I agree that this will happen eventually.

People should know better than to take a 30 year trend (one that has brought the global economy to the brink of collapse, and resulted in massive global debt to future generations) and suddenly declare this is a permanent sea change. I bet the Romans thought that too, when they were importing all their food and goods from all over the empire with ever depreciating dollars.

Things will eventually settle, and the sea change will be complete with China as a 1st world nation.

[Michael Hardner]

And ignore the one's we don't like at our peril?

Of course not. But the answer isn't to turn back the clock. It's not going to happen.

We can do our part by publicizing and discussing the negative effects. That's all we should have to do.

[dre]

It's a temporary thing because the large global economic disparity is new. Globalization will work to even this out.

Whenever we go to this, I don't understand. Does this mean the price of Chinese exports will rise or fall ?

See question above.

Yes, I agree that this will happen eventually.

Things will eventually settle, and the sea change will be complete with China as a 1st world nation.

It's a temporary thing because the large global economic disparity is new. Globalization will work to even this out.

Global economic disparity is NOT new. The only thing new here is massive trade defecits. Like the Roman empire we are trying to shore up our standard of life by printing dollars. The problem is the value of those printed dollars is backed by production, and it diminishes the more you print.

Whenever we go to this, I don't understand. Does this mean the price of Chinese exports will rise or fall ?

It will rise a lot. Like I said the cost of producing chinese goods would increase 250-300% if china stopped pegging its currency... now... today. Those snowpeas would already cost more than domestic brands.

Things will eventually settle, and the sea change will be complete with China as a 1st world nation.

No sea change required! Youre simply describing an economic imbalance being corrected... This has been going on for thousands of years.

This is actually about the 5th or sixth era of "globalism".

Thats why its important to try and assign some meaning to that word. Ask ten globalists what it means and youll get 10 diferent answers.

Some people will point to the political connectedness between nations caused by new technology. This trend is here to stay and is likely irreversible.

Others will point to the ability of nations to enter into voluntary contracts with each other... but this has existed for thousands of years.

BUT... when some people people think of globalism what they really identify with is the recent period where international trade as a percentage of global GDP is at historical highs. Most people indirectly associate that term with the glut of trade and the massive flow of goods from east to west that started in the 70's and 80's. Most of this trade is going to dry up and economies will localize again (as you seem to realize).

Its a chicken VS egg type of question and theres two ways to look at it. Is the new economy the result of all these trade agreements and some grand new design named "globalism"? Or is it the opposite... The policies that we know of as globalism were actually the inevitable result of that economic imbalance that created an incentive for comsuming nations to want access to those dirt cheap goods?

The interesting argument isnt whether globalism is bad or good. Its different things to different people. The interesting argument is what it actually IS and why its here AGAIN at this particular time.

Edited January 27, 2012 by dre

[cybercoma]

Don't worry guys! Nothing to see here! It'll all come out in the wash. Just like the Great Depression. Just let the market work its magic! No need to intervene!

[dre]

Don't worry guys! Nothing to see here! It'll all come out in the wash. Just like the Great Depression. Just let the market work its magic! No need to intervene!

They are intervening like crazy...

[eyeball]

The interesting argument isnt whether globalism is bad or good. Its different things to different people. The interesting argument is what it actually IS and why its here AGAIN at this particular time.

The technology that now exists coupled with the prevailing dominant ethos has resulted in a profoundly different environment for this version of globalism to evolve in than previous incarnations enjoyed. What it will become or evolve into could be profoundly interesting too.

I wonder what a transnational corporation infused with the self-awareness of artificial intelligence would come to imagine for itself.

Speaking of the dominant ethos these days resistance to being either absorbed or consumed by it appears futile.

[eyeball]

They are intervening like crazy...

I get this image of technicians frantically trying to push the control rods in as far as they can go.

[dre]

I get this image of technicians frantically trying to push the control rods in as far as they can go.

Yeah in another thread I posted a little analogy to help people grasp the gravity of whats going on here. They have dumped more than 15 trillion dollars into the system to try and stave off collapse and massive failures in the global banking system.

15 trillion dollars is a stack of one dollar bills more than a million miles high... It would reach to the moon, and back... twice. A stack of one trillion dollar bills is about 67,000 miles high.

Its a good thing money is electronic these days, because if all those dollars actually had to be printed on paper, the banking system would cause massive deforestation

[Michael Hardner]

Yeah in another thread I posted a little analogy to help people grasp the gravity of whats going on here. They have dumped more than 15 trillion dollars into the system to try and stave off collapse and massive failures in the global banking system.

15 trillion dollars is a stack of one dollar bills more than a million miles high... It would reach to the moon, and back... twice. A stack of one trillion dollar bills is about 67,000 miles high.

Its a good thing money is electronic these days, because if all those dollars actually had to be printed on paper, the banking system would cause massive deforestation

But 15 1-trillion dollar bills is entirely manageable. On the other hand, in pennies....

etc.

[dre]

But 15 1-trillion dollar bills is entirely manageable. On the other hand, in pennies....

etc.

What do you mean "its managable"?

[Michael Hardner]

What do you mean "its managable"?

The stack isn't that high.

[Michael Hardner]

I didn't realize you responded here.

Global economic disparity is NOT new. The only thing new here is massive trade defecits. Like the Roman empire we are trying to shore up our standard of life by printing dollars. The problem is the value of those printed dollars is backed by production, and it diminishes the more you print.

Printing dollars means deficit spending yes ? Means borrowing against the future and pumping the money into the economy ?

It will rise a lot. Like I said the cost of producing chinese goods would increase 250-300% if china stopped pegging its currency... now... today. Those snowpeas would already cost more than domestic brands.

I don't understand how this works.