eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Not that I agree with the premise, but you are saying that you're both guilty, but since you feel differnt about it you're not as bad, and are therefore morally superior. Typical Canadian response. What's so typical about it? Lots of Canadians are deeply ashamed that we didn't do more to help the US. Are you suggesting they're atypical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 What's so typical about it? Lots of Canadians are deeply ashamed that we didn't do more to help the US. Are you suggesting they're atypical? Odd that you would perceive it as not "do[ing] more to help the US" rather than 'not doing more to keep Canada safe from such an attack' - even as you say that "Canada has it coming, too." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think this is the only time you'll ever see Americans saying Canada's foreign policy has as big an impact as American. Nobody here has posted any such thing. Whatever Canada's impact was/is, direct complicity cannot be credibly denied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Odd that you would perceive it as not "do[ing] more to help the US" rather than 'not doing more to keep Canada safe from such an attack' - even as you say that "Canada has it coming, too." I meant what was done in the past to deserve us having it coming too, as were you in your last post in this thread. See? No thank you. Discussing Canada is relevant to the causes of 9-11, so it will be just fine to discuss its role here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 What's so typical about it? Lots of Canadians are deeply ashamed that we didn't do more to help the US. Are you suggesting they're atypical? What I was referring to was the effort to find a way to feel morally superior. Not all Canadians would respond like this, but it is common I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 What I was referring to was the effort to find a way to feel morally superior. A Canadian effort or just my own? Personally I think that hapless ship sailed decades ago myself. Not all Canadians would respond like this, but it is common I think. Well it seems the thread is getting confused as whether we're talking about shame/pride in terms of doing more to provoke 9/11 in the past or doing more after 9/11, I'm saying there are lots of Canadians who are ashamed we didn't do more in either case. Needless to say I feel morally superior to a lot of Canadians too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Needless to say I feel morally superior to a lot of Canadians too. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 ....Well it seems the thread is getting confused as whether we're talking about shame/pride in terms of doing more to provoke 9/11 in the past or doing more after 9/11, I'm saying there are lots of Canadians who are ashamed we didn't do more in either case. It matters not, because as I've stated before, "we" are still waiting for terrorist attacks from Vietnam, Serbia, Chile, Honduras, Cuba, Japan, Germany, Italy, Granada, Philipinnes, Dominican Republic, and Haiti (among others). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Why? Many are ashamed to admit we're no better than you Americans when it comes to disturbing so much of the world's shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Many are ashamed to admit we're no better than you Americans when it comes to disturbing so much of the world's shit. Okay, but why is that? What is the underlying motive for such denial? Is it in search of a more positive self image / identity compared to Americans? And if this is so, how/why has it changed over time? When the US was the most "admired" nation in the world, did Canadian self esteem suffer in comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 It matters not, because as I've stated before, "we" are still waiting for terrorist attacks from Vietnam, Serbia, Chile, Honduras, Cuba, Japan, Germany, Italy, Granada, Philipinnes, Dominican Republic, and Haiti (among others). State it all you want, it matters not. And who's this "we" you're talking aboot? I'm sure not looking forward to any terrorist attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 State it all you want, it matters not. It does from a sophomoric "they had it coming" mindset? Why wouldn't other nations or groups respond in an identical manner? What is the difference? Example: Using such logic, Canada deserves to be attacked by Haitian terrorists. And who's this "we" you're talking aboot? I'm sure not looking forward to any terrorist attacks. The same shifting "we" tossed about by others....the one that oddly changes before and after WW2 dirty work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Okay, but why is that? What is the underlying motive for such denial? Is it in search of a more positive self image / identity compared to Americans? And if this is so, how/why has it changed over time? When the US was the most "admired" nation in the world, did Canadian self esteem suffer in comparison? I don't have the faintest clue. You mean you don't either even after having studied and commented on the phenomenon in thousands and thousands and thousands of posts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I don't have the faintest clue. You mean you don't either even after having studied and commented on the phenomenon in thousands and thousands and thousands of posts? No, I don't. The inner workings of the Canadian identity have been well documented by others (Canadian authors), and to the last one America figures prominently in the definition. But I have no idea why it has to be this way....Mexico does not have such a problem. There actually was a time when the United States enjoyed more global admiration than today, and that was at the height of romping and stomping all over the planet (and Moon). Did Canadian self esteem suffer back then...having a foundation in being NOT American? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 It does from a sophomoric "they had it coming" mindset? Why wouldn't other nations or groups respond in an identical manner? What is the difference? Example: Using such logic, Canada deserves to be attacked by Haitian terrorists. Maybe so, but I suppose the main difference is that some people are more culturally predisposed to seeking vengeance than others is all. The same shifting "we" tossed about by others....the one that oddly changes before and after WW2 dirty work. Oh, I thought it might have been the shifty "we" that got tossed together during the Cold War. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Maybe so, but I suppose the main difference is that some people are more culturally predisposed to seeking vengeance than others is all. Really? Now that is an interesting response, and on the surface, you are saying that America has always deserved it, but some groups did not act in retribution. Do the Americans have equal claim to more or less such predispositions? Oh, I thought it might have been the shifty "we" that got tossed together during the Cold War. I think the very nature of "we" is at the heart of the matter. A very complicit Canada (as you have pointed out), gets parsed away from "we" by some when the situation gets complicated. So Canada invents a "Responsibility to Protect" as the new cover story for the folks back home. Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 No, I don't. The inner workings of the Canadian identity have been well documented by others (Canadian authors), and to the last one America figures prominently in the definition. But I have no idea why it has to be this way....Mexico does not have such a problem. Oh well, at least you're persistent. Maybe one day you'll figure it out and you can send us a memo. There actually was a time when the United States enjoyed more global admiration than today, and that was at the height of romping and stomping all over the planet (and Moon). Did Canadian self esteem suffer back then...having a foundation in being NOT American? I don't think so, I was blissfully waving our flag and singing one little two little three Canadians in those days myself. I certainly don't recall wishing I was an American instead. Obviously it took a while for the repercussions of all that stomping, in the ME region at least, to catch up and bite us in the heinie. It's only taking slightly longer for the shine to wear off Canada is all. You don't have to feel so all alone though, aren't enough Canadians with you in heart and soul to take the edge off yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Well it seems the thread is getting confused as whether we're talking about shame/pride in terms of doing more to provoke 9/11 in the past or doing more after 9/11, I'm saying there are lots of Canadians who are ashamed we didn't do more in either case. Needless to say I feel morally superior to a lot of Canadians too. Hmm, I'm not sure how to feel about that. Wait, I think I feel like a coffee... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Really? Now that is an interesting response, and on the surface, you are saying that America has always deserved it, but some groups did not act in retribution. Do the Americans have equal claim to more or less such predispositions? No, I'm just saying we simply bit off more than we could chew when we started mucking about in a region where retribution usually goes without saying. I think the very nature of "we" is at the heart of the matter. A very complicit Canada (as you have pointed out), gets parsed away from "we" by some when the situation gets complicated. So Canada invents a "Responsibility to Protect" as the new cover story for the folks back home. Brilliant! Seems to work on the rubes alright. Hence my reason for self-identifying as an Earthling. I'm a part of "us" in name only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hmm, I'm not sure how to feel about that. Wait, I think I feel like a coffee... I only said I feel that way not am that way. I have to allow for the possibility that supporting dictators and sicking rapacious corporation on weaker smaller countries is in fact a deeply ennobling act. Heisenberg's Principle demands that I allow for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) ....Obviously it took a while for the repercussions of all that stomping, in the ME region at least, to catch up and bite us in the heinie. It's only taking slightly longer for the shine to wear off Canada is all. You don't have to feel so all alone though, aren't enough Canadians with you in heart and soul to take the edge off yet? Far from feeling all alone, I revel in the "dark complicity" of other nationals even as they attempt to deny it. Remember, wanting and needing to be loved by the "world" is a Canadian trait, not for "insular" Americans. I embrace all of the American experience, including the warts. Many other nations do to, even if they don't want to admit it. Edited January 3, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Many are ashamed to admit we're no better than you Americans when it comes to disturbing so much of the world's shit. I have to say, that's the first time I've ever seen you flat-out admit it, especially without any qualifiers or reference to "acting like the U.S." I can't help but wonder how long it's going to be before the focus is mainly all about the U.S. again, but in the meantime, it's good to see you flat out admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Far from feeling all alone, I revel in the "dark complicity" of other nationals even as they attempt to deny it. That doesn't seems a little dark in and of it's self to you? Remember, wanting and needing to be loved by the "world" is a Canadian trait, not for "insular" Americans. But what about the need for fear? Is chanting USA USA USA strictly for home consumption? I'm pretty sure "one little two little three Canadians" was. I embrace all of the American experience, including the warts. Many other nations do to, even if they don't want to admit it. Some people, I'm not saying you in particular, seem to have a real fondness for the warts. After all, without the warts, where would our military-industrial complexes be? Edited January 3, 2012 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I have to say, that's the first time I've ever seen you flat-out admit it, especially without any qualifiers or reference to "acting like the U.S." I can't help but wonder how long it's going to be before the focus is mainly all about the U.S. again, but in the meantime, it's good to see you flat out admit it. No it isn't, it's probably just the first time you've listened. I've said it before lots of times and I'm sure BC_2004 will vouch for me. We've got little reason to quarrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 No it isn't, it's probably just the first time you've listened. No, it's not the first time I've listened. I've argued with you about it in the past. In fact it was you who just recently said that "Canada should know better than to act like the U.S." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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