Should we ban forced marriages?

[Boges]

The only thing I can see that would help is to have a better program to integrate immigrants into our society and our way of thinking. Stop them from wanting to do it. Chances are it will only be enforced by the first generation immigrants anyway, because in the next generation they are brought up here, they become infused with normal Canadian values, they don't want to follow the old ways in this case.

Many people on the "Right" advocate for this. Many Christians too. Usually they are shouted down as racist by the left.

[olp1fan]

Those are very good points, it shows how pressure is put on people from their own families, to comply with their wishes.

I don't even know if a law would help with this part of the problem. In order for the law to become effective, someone would have to report it to the police (the bride for example). At that point she is calling the cops on her own family, and all the same problems you point out here still exists.

The only thing I can see that would help is to have a better program to integrate immigrants into our society and our way of thinking. Stop them from wanting to do it. Chances are it will only be enforced by the first generation immigrants anyway, because in the next generation they are brought up here, they become infused with normal Canadian values, they don't want to follow the old ways in this case.

But if any woman does have the guts to come forward and wants protection, she must absolutely get it.

A program such as the one you suggested would put us on the right path.. I guess the only way to end this is to assimilate them to our society .. but how difficult will that be? Hope the next generation of Muslim Canadian men do not carry on the traditions ..I do not have much hope for that happening but it could

[jacee]

Yes you can, the same way visa marriages are checked out ..which essentially they are fraud marriages because they do not marry for love of the person but for their money, family name, prestige

Ask them questions about each other and decide if this is a REAL marriage or not ..if not the Marriage should be null void

In fact I believe before you can get married you should answer certain questions about the person you intend on marrying

You can't prove 'love', nor can you force people to marry only for love. People can marry for whatever reason they choose, except for fraudulent purposes.

I find it quite odd that someone who claims to be a libertarian would want to implement such a subjective and unenforceable state law.

The only way someone can truly be 'forced' is by forcible confinement and/or violence or threat of violence, all of which are already illegal.

I think you are off base here, olp, perhaps well intentioned, but draconian nonetheless.

[Jack Weber]

I am for banning a controlling cult that does more harm than good

Some might say that of the Roman Catholic Church...

(The Protestant is ducking)

Or Freemasonry...

Or The Moonies...

Edited December 14, 2011 by Jack Weber

[olp1fan]

Many people on the "Right" advocate for this. Many Christians too. Usually they are shouted down as racist by the left.

Yes, they are, I've been implied and referred to as nasty things by a few posters because I want Middle Eastern people and Asians to leave their oppressive cultures at home and to adopt Canadian values

I don't see what is so wrong about that

[olp1fan]

Some might say that of the Roman Catholic Church...

(The Protestant is ducking)

Or Freemasonry...

Or The Moonies...

A man I used to work with was Catholic..his wife became sick with Breast cancer (she survived) and he couldn't afford with to donate money every week so they took her off their prayer list

That is an evil religion and I would not lose sleep over it being banned to be honest

[Boges]

A man I used to work with was Catholic..his wife became sick with Breast cancer (she survived) and he couldn't afford with to donate money every week so they took her off their prayer list

That is an evil religion and I would not lose sleep over it being banned to be honest

That anecdote is reprehensible but it's just that, an anecdote.

Quite frankly your view on religion border on Stalinist.

[olp1fan]

You can't prove 'love', nor can you force people to marry only for love. People can marry for whatever reason they choose, except for fraudulent purposes.

You can't prove love but you could prove that you know each other enough to answer personal questions (questions would be fairly easy like what year was your spouse born, what colour is your spouses eyes, where was your spouse born, what is your spouses favourite food) simple questions that you'd answer right if you actually were with the person

Don't they do that anyway for marriages which are thought to be visa or green card marriages? I know they do that in Britain

The only way someone can truly be 'forced' is by forcible confinement and/or violence or threat of violence, all of which are already illegal.

I can bring up the Supreme Court case about Polygamy then ..The court found a man or woman should be free to marry multiple people but couldn't legalize it because of the abuse and underage arranged marriages in part due to its secretive controlling culture

Underage marriage is already illegal, so why didn't they courts legalize polygamy then since forcing an underage girl is already legal?

Edited December 14, 2011 by olp1fan

[Jack Weber]

A man I used to work with was Catholic..his wife became sick with Breast cancer (she survived) and he couldn't afford with to donate money every week so they took her off their prayer list

That is an evil religion and I would not lose sleep over it being banned to be honest

I don't think I'd lump that largest Christian sect there is into the term reprehensible because a few money grubbing twits took someone off their prayer list...

There's other things to go after the Catholic Church on...

[olp1fan]

That anecdote is reprehensible but it's just that, an anecdote.

Quite frankly your view on religion border on Stalinist.

First I was Hitler now I'm Stalin ... who next?

[olp1fan]

I don't think I'd lump that largest Christian sect there is into the term reprehensible because a few money grubbing twits took someone off their prayer list...

There's other things to go after the Catholic Church on...

Thats not the only story I have..I've heard all kinds, The Catholic church is losing loads of members all around the world because of the whole priest sex scandals

[Boges]

First I was Hitler now I'm Stalin ... who next?

Mao

[Boges]

Thats not the only story I have..I've heard all kinds, The Catholic church is losing loads of members all around the world because of the whole priest sex scandals

Evidence?

The Catholic Church is pretty strong. It's the more lefty sects like the Anglican and United Churches that are losing members.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Boges

[olp1fan]

Mao

TRIFECTA!

[guyser]

Such as? Grabs a bag of popcorn.

Do you like threesomes?

Can you cook Linguine w Clams?

Are you better than your sister/mother?

Am I always right?

for starters anyway.

[sharkman]

Technically I don't think it's possible to have forced marriages in Canada. The parents can try to force, but it wouldn't carry the weight of law. If the child wants to they can just take off with no legal repercussions.

[olp1fan]

Evidence?

For US

Catholic Church losing 1 out of 3. Protestants gain

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2011/04/30/catholic-church-losing-1-out-of-3-protestants-gain/

The Catholic church is losing huge numbers of members. If ex-Catholics were their own denomination, they would make up the third largest denomination in the United States, according to The National Catholic Reporter.

http://ncronline.org/news/hidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants

Edited December 14, 2011 by olp1fan

[olp1fan]

Here's an article on how the Irish are losing their Catholicism

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/26/how_ireland_lost_its_faith

Here's an article on how religion may become extinct in Australia, Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

Edited December 14, 2011 by olp1fan

[olp1fan]

Technically I don't think it's possible to have forced marriages in Canada. The parents can try to force, but it wouldn't carry the weight of law. If the child wants to they can just take off with no legal repercussions.

What I am trying to highlight is the result of saying no to a marriage that is setup by the parents in cultures where this is traditionally done

Its easy enough to tell women being abused to go seek help but how many are too afraid to do so?

We have programs for women who are getting beat up by their spouses but do we have any for women who are wanting to escape oppressive cultures that force marriages?

[Boges]

Here's an article on how the Irish are losing their Catholicism

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/02/26/how_ireland_lost_its_faith

Here's an article on how religion may become extinct in Australia, Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197

First of all extrapolating data to attempt to determine the future of religion is simply dumb.

Second you said that the Catholic church is losing people "all over the world because of the sex scandal" How exactly can you prove that?

[sharkman]

A man I used to work with was Catholic..his wife became sick with Breast cancer (she survived) and he couldn't afford with to donate money every week so they took her off their prayer list

That is an evil religion and I would not lose sleep over it being banned to be honest

Sorry there, but I just don't believe this.

I do see your point about oppressive cultures, however. Too many times our Canadian response is to mind our own business as a woman gets beaten next door.

[olp1fan]

First of all extrapolating data to attempt to determine the future of religion is simply dumb.

Second you said that the Catholic church is losing people "all over the world because of the sex scandal" How exactly can you prove that?

I can prove they're losing members all over the world but there are a few more factors than it being solely because of the sex scandal..I'd be impressed if this were also happening in African countries but there are no stats on that

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9885696

At the start of the last decade, millions of Brazilian Catholics joined flashy Pentecostal congregations expanding in the world's biggest Catholic country. Now, Brazil's Getulio Vargas Foundation finds, the country's Catholics are still leaving the church and at a higher rate than ever, but many younger parishioners, like Maragato, are simply becoming nonreligious.

Mexico is poised to take Brazil's place as the world's top Catholic nation, although the church is also losing members there. According to Mexico's census, 84 percent of the population was Catholic in 2010, with the number dropping at a rate less than half of that in Brazil.

Edited December 14, 2011 by olp1fan

[olp1fan]

Sorry there, but I just don't believe this.

I do see your point about oppressive cultures, however. Too many times our Canadian response is to mind our own business as a woman gets beaten next door.

That's fine, but it happened, I'm sure you could google and find stories similar to this or worse

[jacee]

TRIFECTA!

Well you sure aren't a 'live and let live' libertarian!

Ban this, ban that ... = control by the state over freedom of religion, freedom of choice, etc ... !

I might agree with you that the world would be better off without the Vatican-controlled Catholic religion, but people make their own choices.

I hope that people who do leave the Catholic church make the effort to contact their parish and formally withdraw. Otherwise, the church still counts them when bragging about how many people they "represent".

Edited December 14, 2011 by jacee

[The_Squid]

It is probably already illegal to coerce someone in to marriage.

However, prosecutions will be few and far between... like never.

What the gov't could do, if this is a major concern, is an educational campaign to say that no one is ever required to marry anyone else regardless of what the patriarch of the family might want. Everyone is free to marry, or not, as they see fit. You may pay a price with your family... ostracized... out of the will... not invited to Hanukkah dinner... or some other "punnishment", but there is no obligation to follow the wishes of "the family".

I think that would be money better spent rather than trying to legislate this sort of problem away.

Edited December 14, 2011 by The_Squid