Face veils banned for citizenship oaths

[Evening Star]

This thread is making me very sad.

[cybercoma]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/csa/lowres/csan64l.jpg

[Guest American Woman]

But then there would have to have an ID with a picture of their uncovered face on it. But that would be too humiliating. Right?

I don't think it's legal to wear a veil/burka on a driver's license photo.

[guyser]

Any arrest, how else do you identify them? Please tell me, I'm listening.

Wait, you replied to someone producing a DL to a cop and her burka is on.

So , what arrest can the cop make to take her to the station for fingerprinting.

There is no law to identify oneself. In a car, one has to provide a DL for ID. She did and that is that.

[sharkman]

That cartoon illustration is funny but it makes a point. How can we call for burka free cars when we use cell phones in cars?

The thing is, cell phones usage is illegal in some provinces and it's the trend. So are we willing to require the religious to abide by the same rules we apply to ourselves with regards to safety?

Edited December 13, 2011 by sharkman

[Guest American Woman]

That cartoon illustration is funny but it makes a point. How can we call for burka free cars when we use cell phones in cars?

The thing is, cell phones usage is illegal in some provinces and it's the trend. So are we willing to require the religious to abide by the same rules we apply to ourselves?

While cell phones are a distraction, and personally I think it should be illegal to use them while driving - they don't obscure vision. A cartoon with a woman driving in a burka while talking on a cell phone - that would show the worst case scenario.

[cybercoma]

Distraactions obscure your vision moreso than wearing a niqab would. In fact, the niqab doesn't obscure a woman's vision any more than wearing a scarf and toque on a cold morning would.

[Wilber]

Wait, you replied to someone producing a DL to a cop and her burka is on.

So , what arrest can the cop make to take her to the station for fingerprinting.

There is no law to identify oneself. In a car, one has to provide a DL for ID. She did and that is that.

My point is, if it is acceptable to bare ones face for a drivers license or passport photo and it is acceptable to bare ones face to confirm their identity when required by the authorities, what is the big deal about confirming your identity to the authorities before being sworn in as a citizen?

I think this thread is nonsense.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Wilber

[GostHacked]

While cell phones are a distraction, and personally I think it should be illegal to use them while driving - they don't obscure vision. A cartoon with a woman driving in a burka while talking on a cell phone - that would show the worst case scenario.

My sister, love her to death, but she can't drive and talk on the phone at the same time. Even hands free, she simply can't do both at the same time effectively. One time following her out to my aunt's cottage she was all over the road. Kind of scary being her passenger.

[sharkman]

Distraactions obscure your vision moreso than wearing a niqab would. In fact, the niqab doesn't obscure a woman's vision any more than wearing a scarf and toque on a cold morning would.

Huh? Not even close to the same thing.

[sharkman]

While cell phones are a distraction, and personally I think it should be illegal to use them while driving - they don't obscure vision. A cartoon with a woman driving in a burka while talking on a cell phone - that would show the worst case scenario.

I'm with you on that. I just can't see how driving in a burka is safe. I had occasion to drive with a hoodie jacket, and immediately lowered the hoodie so I could see to the side.

[Guest American Woman]

Distraactions obscure your vision moreso than wearing a niqab would. In fact, the niqab doesn't obscure a woman's vision any more than wearing a scarf and toque on a cold morning would.

I don't see how anyone can seriously claim a hat interferes with vision the way a face covering does.

Burka

toque

There is no comparison.

[Guest American Woman]

I'm with you on that. I just can't see how driving in a burka is safe. I had occasion to drive with a hoodie jacket, and immediately lowered the hoodie so I could see to the side.

Exactly. Peripheral vision has to be non-existent in a burka.

[The_Squid]

This whole issue of driving in a burka is a red-herring. Why are you people so hung up on something so ridiculous?

The point of removing the burka, in my opinion, is: 1 - proper identification of an individual. 2 - Canadian cultural values and the oppression of women in other cultures and how that fits in to modern Canadian society.

Proper ID has to be done by law when swearing in a new citizen. Wearing a mask while swearing any oath seems very innapropriate to me. It is not a cultural norm here in Canada to do such a thing.

Oppression - I submit that Canadian values are superior to cultural practices elsewhere that allow the oppression of women and minorities. We should not be allowing this type of backwards thinking to be practiced in Canada.

[The_Squid]

oops.

Edited December 13, 2011 by The_Squid

[sharkman]

I guess I get hung up on safety. I don't want people driving anything when they can't see me.

[Wilber]

Exactly. Peripheral vision has to be non-existent in a burka.

I think the same thing about all the kids I see driving with their hoodies up.

[Boges]

I think the same thing about all the kids I see driving with their hoodies up.

Where, pray tell, is this common?

[Wilber]

Where, pray tell, is this common?

Might be the local culture but I see it all the time around here.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Wilber

[cybercoma]

Huh? Not even close to the same thing.

Driving while you're distracted seriously inhibits your ability to see what's going on around you.

There's an interesting Mythbusters episode comparing using a phone while driving and drinking and driving:

[cybercoma]

[The_Squid]

Where, pray tell, is this common?

Driving with a hoody... driving with a goalie mask... driving with a cell phone... driving with a burka...

who cares??? All red herrings... distractions to the real topic.

[cybercoma]

I don't see how anyone can seriously claim a hat interferes with vision the way a face covering does.

Burka

toque

There is no comparison.

You'll notice I said niqab. Very few women in North America wear a Burqa and I would imagine even less wear one while driving (if any).

[dre]

This whole issue of driving in a burka is a red-herring. Why are you people so hung up on something so ridiculous?

The point of removing the burka, in my opinion, is: 1 - proper identification of an individual. 2 - Canadian cultural values and the oppression of women in other cultures and how that fits in to modern Canadian society.

Proper ID has to be done by law when swearing in a new citizen. Wearing a mask while swearing any oath seems very innapropriate to me. It is not a cultural norm here in Canada to do such a thing.

Oppression - I submit that Canadian values are superior to cultural practices elsewhere that allow the oppression of women and minorities. We should not be allowing this type of backwards thinking to be practiced in Canada.

Oppression - I submit that Canadian values are superior to cultural practices elsewhere that allow the oppression of women and minorities. We should not be allowing this type of backwards thinking to be practiced in Canada.

We wont. The courts will protect minorities (especially unpopular ones) from the scumbags among us.

Im not sure if Burkas present an issue or not for drivers because Iv never worn one. But if they cant see properly they should not be allowed to drive with one on. The phrase "reasonable accomodation" has the word "reasonable" in it for a reason. Religious freedom is not absolute.

[cybercoma]

We wont. The courts will protect minorities (especially unpopular ones) from the scumbags among us.

Im not sure if Burkas present an issue or not for drivers because Iv never worn one. But if they cant see properly they should not be allowed to drive with one on. The phrase "reasonable accomodation" has the word "reasonable" in it for a reason. Religious freedom is not absolute.

Exactly. Then you get morons that use burqa and niqab interchangeably.