Protest against the LCBO -- Liquor Control Board of Ontario

[cybercoma]

Well there is a reason some of that wine costs close to 20 bucks a bottle. Because it's good.

That's actually not true. There is no correlation between quality and price when it comes to wines. I'll give you some examples of my favourites from different varietals, all under $20. This list is by no means exhaustive. Just some of my favourite "cheap" wine:

Whites

Chardonnay

Lindeman's Bin 65 Chardonnay (Australia)

Stone Cellars by Beringer Chardonnay (USA)

Sterling Vintner's Collection Chardonnay (USA)

Pinto Grigio

Woodbridge Pinot Grigio (USA)

Cavit Pinto Grigio (Italy)

Sauvignon Blanac

Woodbridge Sauvignon Blanc (USA)

Rosemount Sauvignon Blanc (Australia)

Riesling

Jacob's Creek Riesling (Australia)

Rudolph Müller Riesling (Germany)

Fünf 5 Riesling (Germany)

Reds

Cabernet Sauvignon

Lindeman's Bin 45 Cabernet Sauvignon (Australia)

[yellow tail] Cabernet Sauvignon (Australia)

Merlot

Little Penguin Merlot (Australia)

Barefoot Merlot (USA)

Concha y Toro Casillero del Diablo Merlot (Chile)

Shiraz/Syrah

Jacob's Creek Shiraz (Australia)

Trapiche Oak Cask Syrah (Argentina)

Pinot Noir

Turning Leaf Pinot Noir (Germany)

Mark West Pinot Noir (USA)

Beringer Third Century Pinot Noir (USA)

You should be able to find all of those for less than $20 with most of them being $15 or less. In my opinion, they're all great bottles of wine that are better than some of the $50-100 bottles I've had.

[prairiechickin]

Alcohol is one of those things where similar process + similar ingredients = similar result.

So true. My favorite gimmick is 'premium vodka'. Most vodka comes from rum distilleries. They run the mash through the still twice, then put the result into oak barrels for two to seven years, and that's rum. The cost and flavor difference is in the aging process. To make vodka they simply run the stuff through a third time, add water, and that's vodka. Stick a fancy label on it and that's premium vodka. Its not aged, so there's no real difference between vodkas beyond the labels.

[Evening Star]

Have you guys even tried foreign or independent brews? There's a huge freaking difference between different beers! (I'm not talking Blue here.) For real, try a proper Samuel Smith's or Sinebrychoff or Baltika and tell me you don't see the difference from Guinness.

[Evening Star]

Even a St-Ambroise Oatmeal Stout if you don't want to get too exotic. Do Dieu du Ciel if you're in Montreal.

[Boges]

Have you guys even tried foreign or independent brews? There's a huge freaking difference between different beers! (I'm not talking Blue here.) For real, try a proper Samuel Smith's or Sinebrychoff or Baltika and tell me you don't see the difference from Guinness.

Microbrew snob.

[Black Dog]

$14/bottle is cheap to you?

You must really be a hipster.

No, but I have a job.

[Boges]

Even a St-Ambroise Oatmeal Stout if you don't want to get too exotic. Do Dieu du Ciel if you're in Montreal.

St Ambroise Apricot Ale is very good.

[Evening Star]

A bit sweet for my taste but I definitely wouldn't sneeze at any St-Ambroise.

And to be clear, I do think Labatt's is perfectly decent for a mainstream lager, better than that pisswater that major-label American brewers are content to spew forth. (<3 US microbrews though)

Edited January 3, 2012 by Evening Star

[cybercoma]

Even a St-Ambroise Oatmeal Stout if you don't want to get too exotic. Do Dieu du Ciel if you're in Montreal.

St-Ambroise makes some great beer. I keep saying I'm going to go to Dieu du Ciel's brewpub when I'm in Montreal, but I never have a chance.

Also out of Quebec, I really like Unibroue. I've never had a beer from them that was awful. If you like dark beers, you absolutely must try Unibroue's Trois Pistoles. I would also suggest Unibroue Maudite, as it's perhaps the finest red ale I have ever had.

[cybercoma]

Microbrew snob.

No one's being a snob. Pilsners are fine, if that's what you like.

[The_Squid]

No one's being a snob. Pilsners are fine, if that's what you like.

I'm a microbrew snob.

In general;

they use better ingredients

they care more about making a good brew than about shareholder value and cutting corners to reduce costs

they taste a million times better

My brother and I frequently have brawls about beer.

[cybercoma]

I'm all for people drinking Blue or Canadian. I believe eventually they'll venture into better beers, but maybe not. That's their choice. It's like coffee. I can't drink Tim Horton's coffee anymore because, to me anyway, it's like the Blue or Canadian of beers. It completely lacks any flavour. I'll drink it when nothing else is around, but I will go out of my way to go to a local coffee shop or Starbucks if they're available.

[Boges]

I'm all for people drinking Blue or Canadian. I believe eventually they'll venture into better beers, but maybe not. That's their choice. It's like coffee. I can't drink Tim Horton's coffee anymore because, to me anyway, it's like the Blue or Canadian of beers. It completely lacks any flavour. I'll drink it when nothing else is around, but I will go out of my way to go to a local coffee shop or Starbucks if they're available.

Don't get me started on coffee.

Who's to say that discount brand retailers can't make good quality beer? As said earlier, it's about marketing.

A 6-pack of Camerons Ale is $18. You telling me they can't make that beer for a similar price to Lakeport?

Sleemans, a Beer made up the street from me in Guelph, is relatively cheap.

Molson Canadian is actually offensively priced in Ontario at $40 for a case. That's ridiculous when you consider Laker and James Ready are indy beers made in Ontario. Lakeport used to be, but was bought out by Labatts.

Then you have something like Corona which is imported, beer flavoured water, but people pay good money for that beer because it's seen as a cool party beer.

[cybercoma]

Everything you mentioned is all the same to me. Corona is not any more premium than Blue.

Actually, speaking of cheap beer. If I'm camping or just drinking to drink, I'll buy myself a case of Lucky Lager ("Lucky I had enough money for a case of beer!"). Chill that stuff down ice cold and imo it's better than Blue or Canadian.

[The_Squid]

Don't get me started on coffee.

Who's to say that discount brand retailers can't make good quality beer? As said earlier, it's about marketing.

They can. And they do. Murphy's Stout, Guinness Stout... brewed by one of the huge breweries in Canada. Decent beer.

Sleemans, a Beer made up the street from me in Guelph, is relatively cheap.

Sleemans is not that good any more. It used to be... It got bought out.

Then you have something like Corona which is imported, beer flavoured water, but people pay good money for that beer because it's seen as a cool party beer.

Corona, Labatts, Molson.... same swill. No flavour... crappy grains.... corn to lighten it up....

The reason they sell is marketting and people, for the most part in this country, don't like real beer.

[Evening Star]

Guinness Stout...

NOOOO... I'm a big fan of porters and stouts and Guinness really is at the bottom of the heap in my books. Just empty bitterness with no richness or complexity of flavour. Every dark I've listed on this thread puts it to shame.

[Big Guy]

Well there is a reason some of that wine costs close to 20 bucks a bottle. Because it's good. I've had the pleasure of trying a Riesling from Fielding Estates from the Niagra region, quite smooth and lots of flavour. Was about 19 dollars a bottle. I;ve also tried a couple others at a bar that when I checked them out at the LCBO they were the 30$ wines.

The real cheap wines are 9-12 bucks. For wine for the most part, you do get what you pay for.

I will let the readers into a very well kept secret but one that any wine buff should know; Norfolk County Ontario, the area in which I live is slowly becoming a player in the world wine trade. The collapsing tobacco industry has forced some land owners to switch to grapes which thrive in the same kinds of soils. There are now a number of vineyards who have grown over the last few years to form an association and a marketing plan.

Recently, there was a competition in Queens Park in Ontario to choose an exclusive wine to be served at official functions. After a tasting by experts, the winner this year was “The Strip Room” (referring to a tobacco leaf process) a red produced by the “Burning Kiln” located near to Simcoe Ontario. This red sells for $24 a bottle and is great success. The Niagara people are looking over their shoulders and wondering where these rookies are coming from.

The “Strip Room” is really worth a taste.

[Boges]

I will let the readers into a very well kept secret but one that any wine buff should know; Norfolk County Ontario, the area in which I live is slowly becoming a player in the world wine trade. The collapsing tobacco industry has forced some land owners to switch to grapes which thrive in the same kinds of soils. There are now a number of vineyards who have grown over the last few years to form an association and a marketing plan.

Recently, there was a competition in Queens Park in Ontario to choose an exclusive wine to be served at official functions. After a tasting by experts, the winner this year was “The Strip Room” (referring to a tobacco leaf process) a red produced by the “Burning Kiln” located near to Simcoe Ontario. This red sells for $24 a bottle and is great success. The Niagara people are looking over their shoulders and wondering where these rookies are coming from.

The “Strip Room” is really worth a taste.

I could buy a bottle of rum for $24, no thanks.

I was at a friends house and he cracked open a bottle of icewine that he won at an event. He said it would have cost $100. $100 for a wine that has a bit of sweetness!!

It's like paying $50-$100 for a cigar. Sure a Monte Cristo is measurably better but it's not worth the extra price sometimes.

I guess if you have money you can choose to only have the best. But they aren't sensible purchasing practice.

That being said, I can really tell the difference between good single-malt scotches over the blended variety. So maybe everyone has their tastes.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Boges

[Black Dog]

NOOOO... I'm a big fan of porters and stouts and Guinness really is at the bottom of the heap in my books. Just empty bitterness with no richness or complexity of flavour. Every dark I've listed on this thread puts it to shame.

You crazy.

[Black Dog]

St-Ambroise makes some great beer. I keep saying I'm going to go to Dieu du Ciel's brewpub when I'm in Montreal, but I never have a chance.

Do it, even if you only have time for one or it's 8 in the morning.

Also out of Quebec, I really like Unibroue. I've never had a beer from them that was awful. If you like dark beers, you absolutely must try Unibroue's Trois Pistoles. I would also suggest Unibroue Maudite, as it's perhaps the finest red ale I have ever had.

Not sure you can get it anywhere but Quebec, but the Unibroue Raftman is a wonderful red ale.

[cybercoma]

Not sure you can get it anywhere but Quebec, but the Unibroue Raftman is a wonderful red ale.

I know I could get Raftman in Ontario when I lived there. I can't seem to find it here in NB.

Éphémère Apple is also quite awesome. It's not like you think reading the name. There's many "fruit" beers out there that just taste... well... fruity. Éphémère Apple is a white ale that incorporates granny smith apple must (in wine the must is the juice crushed out of the grapes before fermenting). Instead of having a cloyingly sweet taste, it's has more of a hint of bright cider on the finish which compliments the white ale nicely.

Unfortunately, I've only ever seen that one in Quebec.

Edited January 4, 2012 by cybercoma

[The_Squid]

NOOOO... I'm a big fan of porters and stouts and Guinness really is at the bottom of the heap in my books. Just empty bitterness with no richness or complexity of flavour. Every dark I've listed on this thread puts it to shame.

I was just using it as an example of a "premium" beer brewed by one of the big breweries. Kilkenny is quite good. Brewed by Molson I believe, under the direction of the UK brewery.

Stouts/porters are not my usual fare but I like Cannery Brewing Maple Stout... quite delicious.

http://www.cannerybrewing.com/MAPLESTOUT.htm

[Black Dog]

I know I could get Raftman in Ontario when I lived there. I can't seem to find it here in NB.

Éphémère Apple is also quite awesome. It's not like you think reading the name. There's many "fruit" beers out there that just taste... well... fruity. Éphémère Apple is a white ale that incorporates granny smith apple must (in wine the must is the juice crushed out of the grapes before fermenting). Instead of having a cloyingly sweet taste, it's has more of a hint of bright cider on the finish which compliments the white ale nicely.

Unfortunately, I've only ever seen that one in Quebec.

I've had Éphémère Apple here and back in B.C. I've not come across Éphémère Blackcurrant, though.

[Boges]

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1113015--cohn-lcbo-s-pricing-policy-doesn-t-add-up?bn=1

Here’s how the bizarre policy works: The LCBO sets a price range for a particular class of wine. Suppliers bid with a proposed retail price, then work backwards from the LCBO’s fixed markup to arrive at a pre-determined wholesale price.

Absurdly, if a supplier’s suggested retail price (and therefore his wholesale price) is deemed too low, the LCBO goes back to the supplier and offers to pay a higher wholesale price so as to bump up the final selling price.

You have to wonder what a winery in Italy or Chile would think if an email arrived from the liquor board during negotiations, complaining that their proposed wholesale price was too low — and beseeching them to reconsider:

“Sir, we respectfully request that you bump up your wholesale price. The LCBO would feel guilty profiting from bigger markups. Kindly avoid low bids in future.”

Doubtless the winemakers of the world would raise a glass to toast the generosity, obstinacy and lunacy of Ontarians handing them more money.

But they already know the LCBO’s dirty little secret: It robs Peter (you and me) to overpay Paul (winemakers).

Drunk on cash flow, the liquor board has turned a rigid social responsibility mandate on its head — making winemakers richer, drinkers poorer, and shareholders dizzier. Time to sober up.

I effin' hate our Provincial government.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Boges

[cybercoma]

Pardon my language, but what a shit show.

And that's coming from a social democrat that believes some things do need to be made public.

Edited January 13, 2012 by cybercoma