More Blowback

[dre]

Oops!

Cairo (CNN) -- Islamist parties made dramatic advances in Egypt's parliamentary elections during the first round of voting for lawmakers this week, a result reflecting a growing embrace of religious-oriented sentiment across turbulent North Africa.

[olp1fan]

which is why I refuse middle east intervention

they don't want human rights, they want religious rights

[Guest American Woman]

According to the article (emphasis mine):

"We accept the results of the elections in any case because it's the will of the people, and our rivals should embrace it too because this is the true democracy we fought for and we wish our liberal brothers better results in the next two rounds," Mahmoud Ghozlan, spokesman of the relatively moderate Muslim Brotherhood, whose Freedom and Justice Party (FJP) won 40% of the vote.

Abdel Moez Ibrahim, head of the judicial election committee said [...] the process has been triumphant for Egyptian democracy.

"The winner of these elections is the Egyptian people," he said.

[dre]

According to the article (emphasis mine):

"We accept the results of the elections in any case because it's the will of the people, and our rivals should embrace it too because this is the true democracy we fought for and we wish our liberal brothers better results in the next two rounds," Mahmoud Ghozlan, spokesman of the relatively moderate Muslim Brotherhood, whose Freedom and Justice Party (FJP) won 40% of the vote.

Abdel Moez Ibrahim, head of the judicial election committee said [...] the process has been triumphant for Egyptian democracy.

"The winner of these elections is the Egyptian people," he said.

Yeah thats all true (your emphasis).

[xul]

Yeah thats all true (your emphasis).

The truth is Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf kind used to fool CNN kind

[charter.rights]

Oops!

Ya. Self-determination is a b#tch for capitalists wanting them to rape their economies in a free market.

[sharkman]

Ya. Self-determination is a b#tch for capitalists wanting them to rape their economies in a free market.

Yeah, instead of raping their economies the secret police will be raping their daughters, beating and killing their children and having citizens just disappear never to be seen again. Much better.

[charter.rights]

Yeah, instead of raping their economies the secret police will be raping their daughters, beating and killing their children and having citizens just disappear never to be seen again. Much better.

Ya right. The propaganda of the right wing capitalists.....

[sharkman]

Ya. Self-determination is a b#tch for capitalists wanting them to rape their economies in a free market.

So this is not left wing ideologue propaganda, but the real truth? Extra points for honesty.

[olp1fan]

Ya right. The propaganda of the right wing capitalists.....

I'm far from a right wing capitalist and even I see how women, children, gay people are treated under

even a "moderate" islamist government

you can't be a human rights liberal if you support this

[Guest Manny]

Yeah, instead of raping their economies the secret police will be raping their daughters, beating and killing their children and having citizens just disappear never to be seen again. Much better.

What a brave new world.

[bud]

Yeah, instead of raping their economies the secret police will be raping their daughters, beating and killing their children and having citizens just disappear never to be seen again. Much better.

your brain is clouded by shallow and superficial talking points.

[eyeball]

More blowback? Not at all.

All we're seeing and probably going to see for some time is the resumption of the same painful crawl towards human rights our culture went through. I say resumed because it's development was clearly arrested by outside interference, including ours. My fear is that these countries have been left so bereft in terms of natural capital and resources not to mention bad will that they may never recover from that interference. If that happens that's when I expect the real blow back to start.

These are people who are experimenting with democracy for the first time and anyone who expects them to get it right the first time or even soon is either deluded or being disingenuous. We've got some nerve considering we're barely out of the cradle ourselves in terms of our civil and social maturity.

[bud]

it's through time that these countries can experience true justice and human rights. unfortunately, outside meddling by various countries slow down this process and may even prevent it. perhaps the parties elected by the eygptians can flush out the old regime which still has power through the military.

[Guest American Woman]

These are people who are experimenting with democracy for the first time and anyone who expects them to get it right the first time or even soon is either deluded or being disingenuous.

Wasn't that the expectation in Afghanistan and Iraq from all the critics? I recall the 'less than perfect' elections being harped on as proof of the failure to bring democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq. Good to to know that you realize that anyone expecting them to have "[got] it right the first time or even soon" is "either deluded or being disingenuous" - and I'm sure we can count of you to point it out whenever the topic comes up.

[eyeball]

Wasn't that the expectation in Afghanistan and Iraq from all the critics? I recall the 'less than perfect' elections being harped on as proof of the failure to bring democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq.

That's right, proof of the failure of us to bring or deliver democracy to them. As I pointed out democracy will probably take years to develop there on its own. The sooner we leave the sooner that process can resume.

Good to to know that you realize that anyone expecting them to have "[got] it right the first time or even soon" is "either deluded or being disingenuous" - and I'm sure we can count of you to point it out whenever the topic comes up.

You can certainly count on me to point out bullshit when it comes up.

[Guest American Woman]

That's right, proof of the failure of us to bring or deliver democracy to them. As I pointed out democracy will probably take years to develop there on its own. The sooner we leave the sooner that process can resume.

I see. So the "expecting them to get it right the first time or even soon" doesn't apply to the Afghans and Iraqis in the same way - because we were involved. The fact that they are trying, that they now have the opportunity, doesn't mean anything. They either had to get it right the first time, which is impossible, or it's a complete failure - and since it's impossible to get it right the first time, "a complete failure" is a given. Can't see it as a good thing that they now have the opportunity for democracy; having brought them the opportunity is not a good thing. There's nothing good about it. They'd be better off is they didn't now have the opportunity for democracy. Am I getting it yet?

[bud]

egypt and tunisia created their own opportunity for democracy. america's intervention in afghanistan was not only undemocratic but it also alienated a large portion of the population. this is why, 10 years forward we're not seeing a majority united for democracy in afghanistan.

america's recipe for democracy is not working and has not worked. it has been a complete failure.

[Guest Manny]

It's a nice idea, to help the oppressed people in other countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. The lowest ones, who are beaten up by killer gangs. I hope it will work. I don't believe it will, because these people they don't believe in freedoms the way we do.

Everybody wants security and safety, that's for sure but that is a different thing. Not the same as liberte. For the muslims it's more about keeping faith to their religion. They don't want total freedom, they are not ready for that just like we were much more conservative in our values 100 years ago. Evem 50 years ago! Imagine some entity try to come here and force us to accept a totally new culture just like that. No way. People would get pissed off. They only want safety, to be free to live the way they want, even islamic law, and they want us to help them a little, and go away.

[blueblood]

Ya. Self-determination is a b#tch for capitalists wanting them to rape their economies in a free market.

The only raping going on is by the government and the aristocracy in those countries, they pissed away all the money investors put in there on consumption.

[eyeball]

Am I getting it yet?

I doubt it.

[charter.rights]

The only raping going on is by the government and the aristocracy in those countries, they pissed away all the money investors put in there on consumption.

Your girlish fears of a theocracy are unfounded, since the OP is about a democratic process using its people power to support leaders who have faith in their religious institutions.

If we are to believe you then we should all fear the Republicans in the US since the majority of them are Christian fundamentalists.

[blueblood]

Your girlish fears of a theocracy are unfounded, since the OP is about a democratic process using its people power to support leaders who have faith in their religious institutions.

If we are to believe you then we should all fear the Republicans in the US since the majority of them are Christian fundamentalists.

Where did I say I was scared of a theocracy? Those people can vote in whoever they like. Your just dodging an anti-capitalist rant of yours. Heck those countries current govts are so new there hasn't been a chance for them to piss away foreign investment. However the previous dictators that were there pissed away all the investors money and forced their people to live in squalor, not "the capitalists".

How do you know that he majority of republicans are Christian fundamentalists? The same way some other posters think aboriginals. Are all lazy mooches? The difference between us is I think both prejudged statements are wrong and you don't.

[Guest American Woman]

....we should all fear the Republicans in the US since the majority of them are Christian fundamentalists.

the majority of them are Christian fundamentalists

I would love to see your source for this claim. Thank you in advance.

[wyly]

which is why I refuse middle east intervention

they don't want human rights, they want religious rights

religious rights are inseparable from human rights...