Why Harper is so vulnerable

[Evening Star]

It doesnt sound like ANYONE really. Westerners like to spend money and governments are every bit as addicted as consumers. Thats why that particular 'sub ideology' died out.

The Chretien/Martin Liberals pretty much did what you described though.

[WWWTT]

I vote Conservative because the others are idiots. I doubt I'm alone in that.

Do you think the politicians feel you are an idiot too?

WWWTT

[Keepitsimple]

Lets see now....first there was the hidden agenda. Pppffft - that's gone. Then Harper was a fundamental bible thumper - uh, no! Now we're onto the "hanging judge" - throw everybody in jail. With every fallacy, Canadians become more in tune with this middle-of-the-road politician. Another 4 years of phoney stories that never come to pass and the Conservatives may end up closer to 50% in support. The same thing is happening in Toronto - the Star never gives up in bashing any attempt to come to grips with the budget - demonizing every effort before they are even voted on. The same thing will happen - the "cuts" will finally start to unclog the city bureaucracy - amid the predictable bleating and strike threats from the unions. Keep up the good work, Harper critics.

[Guest Derek L]

Lets see now....first there was the hidden agenda. Pppffft - that's gone. Then Harper was a fundamental bible thumper - uh, no! Now we're onto the "hanging judge" - throw everybody in jail. With every fallacy, Canadians become more in tune with this middle-of-the-road politician. Another 4 years of phoney stories that never come to pass and the Conservatives may end up closer to 50% in support. The same thing is happening in Toronto - the Star never gives up in bashing any attempt to come to grips with the budget - demonizing every effort before they are even voted on. The same thing will happen - the "cuts" will finally start to unclog the city bureaucracy - amid the predictable bleating and strike threats from the unions. Keep up the good work, Harper critics.

Indeed, much like the boy that cried wolf.

[Newfoundlander]

The Chretien/Martin Liberals pretty much did what you described though.

And they were quite popular.

[Shwa]

The Chretien/Martin Liberals pretty much did what you described though.

Yeah, I had them in mind when I was reading Dre's comment...

[Shwa]

Lets see now....first there was the hidden agenda. Pppffft - that's gone.

Just because you wave the magic fairy wand doesn't mean things are "gone."

Then Harper was a fundamental bible thumper - uh, no!

I'll believe that when he comes right out and says he's an athiest.

Now we're onto the "hanging judge" - throw everybody in jail.

Yes, really, the level of rhetoric in the opposition frequently uses the phrase "throw everybody in jail." Nice straw man attempt.

With every fallacy, Canadians become more in tune with this middle-of-the-road politician.

LOFL! Now you are starting to sound like Mr. Canada!

Another 4 years of phoney stories that never come to pass and the Conservatives may end up closer to 50% in support.

Yes, because all the stories are "phoney" when they pertain to the Great and Ennobling Leader.

The same thing is happening in Toronto - the Star never gives up in bashing any attempt to come to grips with the budget - demonizing every effort before they are even voted on. The same thing will happen - the "cuts" will finally start to unclog the city bureaucracy - amid the predictable bleating and strike threats from the unions.

We have your amazing predictions on record now...

Keep up the good work, Harper critics.

Keep up the good work, Harper shills.

[fellowtraveller]

To put it simply, most folks that consistently vote Tory regard the NDP as muddleheads at best and outright communists at worst! That is why the Tory vote always has a solid base.

NDP supporters tend to get very frustrated with this and call such voters all sorts of names, regarding them as simple-minded sheep at best and reptilian kitten-eaters who rob babies and laugh to condemn them to a life of poverty and welfare at the very worst.

It doesn't matter. People are what they are and they vote as they will. The NDP will never win over some Tory votes by getting them to change their values. It will only happen if they see some of their values in the NDP!

Which isn't likely any time soon, now that Jack has died. Don't hold your breath.

No that is not why the Tory vote has a solid base. The Tory base is solid because of what just occurred, which you have failed to note. WQhat happened was that the Tories moved to the middle, and in the process they bumped the Liberals to the edge of oblivion.

The NDP have - under Jack Layton as well as every other leader- steadfastly refused to do the same. It comes up every policy convention, and is routinely flushed.

Unless your 'moderate' candidates Dewar and Mulcair are determined to flush the radical leftoids from their party, they will never get anywhere towards an assumed goal of running the country. Layton couldn't do it, and neither can they. They cannot even talk about it during their campaigns, the hard left in the NDP would lynch them.

Buh-bye next election, Quebec won't be repeating what they just did.

[olp1fan]

cons are centre? their policies on marijuanna are far right

as is their military aspirations and republican style union busting

Edited November 28, 2011 by olp1fan

[blueblood]

easy, next few years when Canadian Wheat Farmers in the Praries become poor or lose their business because of Americans paying them little

the Libs or NDP will promise to bring back the CWB, and then the farmers and their families won't vote for the cons in the next election

Do you try and be ignorant?

Most farmers would rather drink bleach than vote for those two clowns. And don't even attempt to try and give us a lecture on how you think the grain industry works.

[Evening Star]

No that is not why the Tory vote has a solid base. The Tory base is solid because of what just occurred, which you have failed to note. WQhat happened was that the Tories moved to the middle, and in the process they bumped the Liberals to the edge of oblivion.

The NDP have - under Jack Layton as well as every other leader- steadfastly refused to do the same. It comes up every policy convention, and is routinely flushed.

Unless your 'moderate' candidates Dewar and Mulcair are determined to flush the radical leftoids from their party, they will never get anywhere towards an assumed goal of running the country. Layton couldn't do it, and neither can they. They cannot even talk about it during their campaigns, the hard left in the NDP would lynch them.

Buh-bye next election, Quebec won't be repeating what they just did.

I'm not sure what you see as the 'middle' but there has been a definite and dramatic shift in NDP policy for years now, and definitely over the course of Layton's leadership. It seems unquestionable if you compare their 2011 election platform with their 1993 platform, let alone if you go back to e.g. when they openly called for Canada to leave NATO.

The Tories haven't 'flushed' the hardcore libertarians and fundamentalists from their party; they've just controlled how much influence they have over the party. I see no reason why the NDP can't do the same. I don't even think the Socialist Caucus has had much influence in forever.

[wyly]

No that is not why the Tory vote has a solid base. The Tory base is solid because of what just occurred, which you have failed to note. WQhat happened was that the Tories moved to the middle, and in the process they bumped the Liberals to the edge of oblivion.

:lol: :lol: conservatives supporters don't represent the sharpest tools in the shed do they...the simplest of math skills should tell you if the cpc had the middle they'd have have 60-70% of the popular vote...as it's the NDP, libs, bloc and greens have 60% of the popular vote it should be evident to those with even rudimentary math skills the cpc has no part of the center... Edited November 28, 2011 by wyly

[fellowtraveller]

I see no reason why the NDP can't do the same.

You'd have to ask them why they don't want to govern Canada. They rejected a move to the middle at their last policy convention, again, with Layton presiding.

the simplest of math skills should tell you if the cpc had the middle they'd have have 60-70% of the popular vote

Keep thinking that Mr NDP.

Please.

The Liberals ruled for 13 years with 40%, smack in the middle..

You guys really do not get it, which is great for Canada.

It scares the shit out of you that the Tories did figure out that they needed to smack down their extremes, and get middle Canada to buy in. Both were accomplished. The NDP has done neither and are obviously seriously challenged to keep their party together while trying to do it.

but there has been a definite and dramatic shift in NDP policy for years now, and definitely over the course of Layton's leadership

Nope. Saint Jacques failed in this, as has every NDP leader that has tried to get the loony left to STFU and give the party a real chance. Their gains in Quebec are short lived, they made little to no headway elsewhere in Canada. Buh-bye next election, Quebec will rejoin Canada next time around.

[olp1fan]

cons are centre? their policies on marijuanna are far right

as is their military aspirations and republican style union busting

just had to bump this

[Shwa]

just had to bump this

They campaigned on being the centre party, but govern from the right. (the Canadian right)

Harper charts Canada's shift to the right - from 2008

The Conservative government, meanwhile, has done a good job of tempering its ideological biases, pursuing policies that are mostly mainstream.

That said, the right-leaning impulses of the membership were on display at the Winnipeg gathering through votes that approved a three-strikes provision for violent offenders, after which the party wants them designated dangerous offenders, and a measure that opens the door to legalizing fetal rights.

They know appearances are everything in Canada so they are tightly controlled by their party cadre. The interesting thing is to see how long they can make that control last and keep up appearances.

[PIK]

Canada has not been this peaceful in along time. The libs were always dividing the country, now the quebecers have realized ,time to join the party or else and the gun registry which divided the pop more then anything else, is done. Soon people in ONT that have lost everything because of the libs , now have 2 options, either the west coast or soon the east coast to get jobs. We are lucky to have harper at the helm.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Fiscal conservatism is extinct at least in terms of political representation. Fiscal conservatives want to slash military and social spending, and make government less intrusive in our lives.

The balance has been broken and that is the problem.

Our government keeps getting bigger and bigger. We need to add funding, then cut back. It's a cycle that helps see that the funding we provide is necessary funding and not government bloat.

I suppose to be fair, we are seeing some cuts at the federal level but, we are also seeing large expenditures and liabilities that should only be added in a time of surplus. I don't really call costly criminal law and overpriced jets an investment in canadian infrastructure to promote economic activity. If that money were invested to create innovation, enhance infrastructure to make Canada more competitive or even invest at the grass roots business level(not large scale corporate level), we'd see a much larger pay out economically.

Edited November 28, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[wyly]

The Liberals ruled for 13 years with 40%, smack in the middle..

You guys really do not get it, which is great for Canada.

because the liberals did rule from the center 40%, 35-75% of the population...and the liberals still hold that center ground with the NDP making strong inroads to the center and the conservatives still on the extreme right unable to make any progress....60% of canadians voted center and left...

It scares the shit out of you that the Tories did figure out that they needed to smack down their extremes, and get middle Canada to buy in.

what scares me is the lack of critical thinking exhibited by voters from the right, even the simplest concepts are a mystery to them...the truth in my signature/quote holds true...

[g_bambino]

Monarchy? royal Canadian Air Force? Huge mistake. We are Canadian. These people in Britain have nothing to do with us.

You mean: they have nothing to do with us besides being the sovereign of Canada - fulcrum of the federal and provincial systems of governance and thus Confederation, endpoint of a half-millenium old, unbroken line of monarchs over the territory that is now Canada, being therefore a living symbol of the long history of this country - and the heirs, according to our laws and customs, to that post.

Not only is it apt that the names of the air force and navy reflect the fact that those organisations receive their authority from and the members owe their allegiance to a monarch who has honoured them with the prefixes (as is the case with the Royal Danish Navy, Royal Netherlands Navy, Royal New Zealand Air Force, Royal Saint Lucia Police, Royal Danish Air Force, Royal Moroccan Navy, Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, etc., etc.), the restoration of the pre-1968 names of the branches of our armed forces corrected a colossal error.

Perception: Harper is a WASP.

Yes, your perception. Indication: your perception of monarchists is built on stereotypes.

Gun laws. We are Canadians. We should compromise. We should have done the same as the Australian law - it's a good law. Harper could have done this.

Besides these nebulous references to us being Canadians (don't we all realise that already?), I have to agree with you on this one. Just this weekend, I was engaged in a debate about the gun registry with my best friend (an Australian) and my parents. The latter two, as ardent Harper supporters, were insistent that the whole thing be scrapped, citing cost and lack of use. My buddy and I argued that there's a third option: fix it.

[wyly]

the gun registry which divided the pop more then anything else, is done.

the probably makes sense only in a conservative brain...66% of canadians supported the gun registry, the delusional loons of the right are the ones that believe it's divisive issue...a clear majority of canadians supported the gun registry...

[g_bambino]

what scares me is the lack of critical thinking exhibited by voters from the right...

The phenomenon is not so limited as that.

[wyly]

The phenomenon is not so limited as that.

no but it's as generally true today as when john mill made the observation the 150yrs ago...

[Argus]

Do you think the politicians feel you are an idiot too?

WWWTT

They often seem to think all voters are idiots

Unfortunately, they have good reasons for such feeling. A large chunk of voters, maybe even most, ARE idiots.

[Argus]

cons are centre? their policies on marijuanna are far right

as is their military aspirations and republican style union busting

Tough on crime is bedrock conservatism, as is support for the military.

And I don't recall the Liberals being all that popular with unions either.

[Argus]

the probably makes sense only in a conservative brain...66% of canadians supported the gun registry, the delusional loons of the right are the ones that believe it's divisive issue...a clear majority of canadians supported the gun registry...

Being people without that 'critical thinking' you were complaining the conservatives lack...