Former Vancouver mayors call for legalizing Marijuana

[olp1fan]

I hope the provincial governments see legalizing Marijuana as a way to get around Harper's dumb on crime bill when it comes to the ridiculous jail terms

Ontario, Quebec, B.C ..most populous provinces in Canada could together pass this through their governments...what could Harper do about it other than take them to court and lose

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-politics/former-vancouver-mayors-call-for-softening-of-marijuana-laws/article2246463/

Four former Vancouver mayors say it’s time B.C. politicians led the fight to revise Canada’s marijuana laws.

Mike Harcourt, Philip Owen, Larry Campbell and Sam Sullivan have signed an open letter to every municipal, provincial and federal politician in B.C.

The letter says ending the prohibition on marijuana would help stamp out the gang violence associated with the illegal drug trade.

The former mayors urge politicians to consider alternatives such as legalization and regulation, saying those policies will increase taxes to government, remove illicit profits that lead to gang violence, and eliminate costly legal proceedings.

Mr. Sullivan, who served as mayor of Vancouver from 2005 to 2008, says it’s unacceptable that the criminal element is allowed to flourish in B.C. because of political inaction.

He says politicians must play a key role in the development of new policies that can provide safer, stronger communities.

[eyeball]

Yeah that should work. A bunch of old left coast mayors calling for the legalization of pot.

Seriously though I'm thinking mass arrests might be the only option. These mayors should all go plant 6 seeds in Stanley Park, get themselves arrested, and inspire others to crash or overgrow as they say, the government.

I still can't believe the libertarian and so-called fiscal/rational conservatives of BC can't put their principles ahead of their wallets for the one term of a left-wing government it should take to finally put this stupid fucking issue to bed once and for all time. What a bunch of quislings.

[Shwa]

What a bunch of quislings.

To be fair to quislings, they actually did have the threat of communists under their beds.

[Guest Manny]

What I see is that when these people are in power, they hammer out the traditional line, stay the course, we must fight a war on drugs (ergo a war on harmless citizens, that feeds the criminal organizations who hold real power, and thereby lines the politicians pockets.) Plus the advantage that it keeps the politicians and their families above ground. Not to mention the police. The police will never go after the real bad boys, because they'll get their own asses killed. Those guys will shoot them and kill their families. So they just go after ordinary meek citizens.

Then when these politicians retire from office, those who have a conscience admit the truth. It happens also with people like Mexican presidents, and former members of the WHO and UN who were rabidly prohibitionist during their reign. Here are the Quislings. They did these things to get a foothold on power and make their name. Now they should be utterly vilified, burned in effigy, for their cowardice.

[tducey82]

I don't smoke marijuana and at 29 probably never will but it's to the point now where a lot of people are doing it and not hurting anyone, why shouldn't it be legalized?

[Wilber]

I'm not going to get into the legalization debate but I don't understand how anyone would think that legalizing it in BC would eliminate gang activity when over 70% of BC bud is exported to places where it is illegal.

[Guest Manny]

I'm not going to get into the legalization debate but I don't understand how anyone would think that legalizing it in BC would eliminate gang activity when over 70% of BC bud is exported to places where it is illegal.

70% is a relative number, one cannot assess the impact of the remaining "30%". But fact remains, gang violence is a serious problem now in BC, and is on the rise. These are based on turf wars, for the drug money. It's a very simple equation

[Wilber]

70% is a relative number, one cannot assess the impact of the remaining "30%". But fact remains, gang violence is a serious problem now in BC, and is on the rise. These are based on turf wars, for the drug money. It's a very simple equation

I'm not maintaining it would have no effect but as you say , one cannot assess the impact of the remaining 30%. The equation would be much simpler if the remaining 30% only involved marijuana but we know it doesn't. Marijuana is only one part of the street level drug trade.

Depending on how it is done, I'm not anti legalization but it is overly simplistic to maintain legalization of one drug in BC will eliminate organized crime from involvement in the drug business or even the marijuana business and I think it is disingenuous to make that argument.

[dre]

Actually the real hope for legalization is to keep running the largest budget defecits in history. Once the government is flat broke they will have no choice but to start taxing the gigantic underground economy, and stop costly and counterproductive enforcement.

That seems to be what re-opened the debate in the US.

Edited November 24, 2011 by dre

[bush_cheney2004]

...That seems to be what re-opened the debate in the US.

....even in the US.

[fellowtraveller]

Ontario, Quebec, B.C ..most populous provinces in Canada could together pass this through their governments...what could Harper do about it other than take them to court and lose

No, they could not pass through this through their govts, unless it is in the sense of a peanut passing through your digestive system.

Possession, sale, or weed are criminal Code offences. Federal law.

What is the most effective counter to federal law is for mass disobedience of the law, which is what happens now for the most part. It is why the cops don't enforce weed laws mostl;y, where would they start and end?

[Guest Derek L]

I still can't believe the libertarian and so-called fiscal/rational conservatives of BC can't put their principles ahead of their wallets for the one term of a left-wing government it should take to finally put this stupid fucking issue to bed once and for all time. What a bunch of quislings.

There’s zero chance of that ever happing…………That said, if a grassroots movement started a petition for a referendum on drug laws, ala HST, I’d sign it and I know many others of “my ilk” that would also……..It’s not a major issue for many, but for those that it is, I’d say try it……Then you’d know where you stand.

[eyeball]

What is the most effective counter to federal law is for mass disobedience of the law, which is what happens now for the most part. It is why the cops don't enforce weed laws mostl;y, where would they start and end?

Depends on which cops you're talking about. The older ones are probably more as you describe but I think a lot of the fresh-faced police recruits are only too happy and eager to put their new training and indoctrination to use.

I think what it might finally take to slow Ottawa down will be a few in-custody deaths of convicted people raped and murdered at he hands of hardened criminals. Perhaps it'll take hunger-striking, or huge numbers of people to challenge the courts to turn the tide.

Another wrinkle on things will be a lot of marijuana production will likely shift from the indoors back to the outdoors. This will probably result in far more being planted than is actually needed to account for that which is lost to pests, and deer and people who stumble onto patches of it. Another example of the forwards backwards principle in action I guess.

[eyeball]

...if a grassroots movement started a petition for a referendum on drug laws, ala HST, I’d sign it and I know many others of “my ilk” that would also…….

Sure you would. I think you're just putting up your so-called progressive/libertarian creds for show myself. I think most of you get all cranked up at the thought of the state jumping up and down on people's backs. Maybe it's just the thought of throwing some poor kid into a cell with a hardened 'Bubba' that really does it for you.

Edited November 24, 2011 by eyeball

[Guest Manny]

Depends on which cops you're talking about. The older ones are probably more as you describe but I think a lot of the fresh-faced police recruits are only too happy and eager to put their new training and indoctrination to use.

When my cousin Alfredo got arrested, I remember there was one old cop teaching the younger ones how to do it. It was a training exercise. They like to arrest the marijuana smokers, because they never fight. So good way to learn how to do it. And those guys get a promotion if they make a lot of arrests, so that way they work up the system.

[Guest Derek L]

Sure you would. I think you're just putting up your so-called progressive/libertarian creds for show myself. I think most of you get all cranked up at the thought of the state jumping up and down on people's backs. Maybe it's just the thought of throwing some poor kid into a cell with a hardened 'Bubba' that really does it for you.

I don’t have anyway to prove how I feel over the internet, and to be quite honest, I don’t really care if Pot is legal or not, or if you agree with my opinions or not……..or if you believe them or not……I’m not running for office or a popularity contest…………..Come to think of it, I think you’re just putting up a “progressive” front, and you’re really a Conservative troll that wants to legalize Assault Rifles and Machine Guns………Cuts both ways no?

[eyeball]

I don’t have anyway to prove how I feel over the internet, and to be quite honest, I don’t really care if Pot is legal or not

Lets be really honest though, you also don't care that the government you and your ilk most likely voted for is making a complete mockery of just about every fundamental principle you otherwise expect it to stand for.

[Guest Derek L]

Lets be really honest though, you also don't care that the government you and your ilk most likely voted for is making a complete mockery of just about every fundamental principle you otherwise expect it to stand for.

If that were the case, deemed by the majority of Conservative voters, wouldn’t it stand to reason, we’d create another Reform Party?

I personally don’t agree with every policy the Tories implement or propose, but the vast majority of what they do, I agree with………Honestly, what other choice do I have? I could vote Liberal, that do propose some policies that I agree with, but the vast majority of what they do I disagree with………I suppose I could vote for a fringe party, but what really is the point? I might as well not vote or donate my money to a cause that will realistically never implement change that I agree with………..

In BC, I’d love a viable Conservative provincial party, but that’s not (currently) in the cards……So I pinch my nose and vote Liberal.

[eyeball]

If that were the case, deemed by the majority of Conservative voters, wouldn’t it stand to reason, we’d create another Reform Party?

Why when all you have to do is pinch your nose?

I personally don’t agree with every policy the Tories implement or propose, but the vast majority of what they do, I agree with………Honestly, what other choice do I have?

I don't know, ever tried incense or deodorizer?

I could vote Liberal, that do propose some policies that I agree with, but the vast majority of what they do I disagree with………I suppose I could vote for a fringe party, but what really is the point? I might as well not vote or donate my money to a cause that will realistically never implement change that I agree with………..

I suppose you and your ilk could write a letters to your MP's and editors to sound your concerns about the government's treatment of your most fundamental principles.

In BC, I’d love a viable Conservative provincial party, but that’s not (currently) in the cards……So I pinch my nose and vote Liberal.

Well you'll probably be happy to know Christy Clark is likewise supportive of the pinched nose strategy.

[Guest Derek L]

Why when all you have to do is pinch your nose?

The Federal Tories are closer to my ideals than the BC Liberal party, so no nose pinching required.

I suppose you and your ilk could write a letters to your MP's and editors to sound your concerns about the government's treatment of your most fundamental principles.

Or recognise that, as made evident by Mick Jagger, You can’t always get what you want, and that in politics compromise is often required…….hence the merger......I guess we could go and Occupy a oil refinery, military base, gun store or grain elevator.....

Edited November 24, 2011 by Derek L

[dre]

Honestly, what other choice do I have? I could vote Liberal, that do propose some policies that I agree with, but the vast majority of what they do I disagree with………I suppose I could vote for a fringe party, but what really is the point? I might as well not vote or donate my money to a cause that will realistically never implement change that I agree with………..

Thats the problem with ideoligal monopolies in politics.

In BC, I’d love a viable Conservative provincial party, but that’s not (currently) in the cards……So I pinch my nose and vote Liberal.

The BC Liberal party IS a viable conservative provincial party. Its a completely pro business and anti-labor government and its probably to the right of the CPC on the political spectrum.

[Guest Derek L]

Thats the problem with ideoligal monopolies in politics.

Do you expect a political party to cater to all of your beliefs?

The BC Liberal party IS a viable conservative provincial party. Its a completely pro business and anti-labor government and its probably to the right of the CPC on the political spectrum.

I disagree…….They let HST go without a (serious fight) and Clark’s former husband/boyfriend/partner is a federal Liberal insider……..There are some former Socreds within the party, but Clark is defiantly not one of them…….hence the slight growth in the BC Conservative party.

[fellowtraveller]

Depends on which cops you're talking about. The older ones are probably more as you describe but I think a lot of the fresh-faced police recruits are only too happy and eager to put their new training and indoctrination to use.

I think what it might finally take to slow Ottawa down will be a few in-custody deaths of convicted people raped and murdered at he hands of hardened criminals. Perhaps it'll take hunger-striking, or huge numbers of people to challenge the courts to turn the tide.

Another wrinkle on things will be a lot of marijuana production will likely shift from the indoors back to the outdoors. This will probably result in far more being planted than is actually needed to account for that which is lost to pests, and deer and people who stumble onto patches of it. Another example of the forwards backwards principle in action I guess.

I think that perhaps you are not actually aware of what happens today in Canada.

Weed possession laws are barely enforced at all in many if not most jurisdictions. Many places you would have to work hard to get charged with simple possession, and often the charge is part of a string of charges i.e. somebody gets caught with a joint in pocket while getting busted for something else.

A shift to outdoors? Ah no. That would mean a huge drop in quality, something nobody that smokes the very high qulaity product widely available now is going to accept.

[eyeball]

I think that perhaps you are not actually aware of what happens today in Canada.

Weed possession laws are barely enforced at all in many if not most jurisdictions. Many places you would have to work hard to get charged with simple possession, and often the charge is part of a string of charges i.e. somebody gets caught with a joint in pocket while getting busted for something else.

I realize that's usually the case, but presumably that's going to change.

A shift to outdoors? Ah no. That would mean a huge drop in quality, something nobody that smokes the very high qulaity product widely available now is going to accept.

No doubt the big underground growers will continue to produce the high-test if not expand their operations. There'll also be a fair number of people who simply want to grow enough for their own needs who might be scared off enough by the tone of the times to reduce their exposure to risk. Between their flowering plants, seedlings or clones the 6 plant threshold will almost certainly put most of these into to the mandatory sentencing category.

Edited November 25, 2011 by eyeball

[fellowtraveller]

I realize that's usually the case, but presumably that's going to change.

No doubt the big underground growers will continue to produce the high-test if not expand their operations. There'll also be a fair number of people who simply want to grow enough for their own needs who might be scared off enough by the tone of the times to reduce their exposure to risk. Between their flowering plants, seedlings or clones the 6 plant threshold will almost certainly put most of these into to the mandatory sentencing category.

I doubt there will be any change, the cops just do not have much heart for enforcement when so many ordinary citizens simply refuse to obey the law. IMO, we just saw an example of it with enforcement of gun registration.

Regarding grow ops, think back to the pre-hydro, pre-BC bud days when the best smokeables were brought at great risk from all over the world. Higher cost and poorer quality then made no difference to the growth in people smoking regularly. As long as two factors exist: profit and demand- the product will be available. There is no way to put this genie back in the bottle. The simple reality is that far too many people from too many successive generations like to smoke, and that includes a fair few cops, prosecutors and judges, not to mention legislators.

Being frightened off growing your own does not mean they will be scared off smoking now and then.