bush_cheney2004 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Its not an insult if its true....but it isnt true, thus its insulting. I don't understand....do you mean that prominent Canadians like PM Chretien, MP Williams, and MP Belinda Stronach going to the USA for health care by choice is insulting? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 I don't understand....do you mean that prominent Canadians like PM Chretien, MP Williams, and MP Belinda Stronach going to the USA for health care by choice is insulting? I don't think so - I think he was telling cybercoma that what he said, because it's not true, is an insult. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 I don't think so - I think he was telling cybercoma that what he said, because it's not true, is an insult. OK....member guyser is usually fair in such matters and not a homer. I stand (delightfully) corrected. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Let's hope it stays that way...best to just let the Canadians whine about "American style" health care while they wait in line, suffering patriotically. Looks like my wife's cancer journey from diagnosis to surgery and radiation will span all of 3 months (aside from hormone therapy ie pills for 5 years). Virtually all of it paid for by provincial medical system and my modest benefit plan at work. The longest line up we've been in so far was at a bus stop. Of course we're completely outraged at how unfair, uncaring and expensive this has all been. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Looks like my wife's cancer journey from diagnosis to surgery and radiation will span all of 3 months (aside from hormone therapy ie pills for 5 years). Virtually all of it paid for by provincial medical system and my modest benefit plan at work. Congratulations....but my mother's treatment was faster. The longest line up we've been in so far was at a bus stop. She didn't even have to wait for the bus....Americans also waste money on "automobiles". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Looks like my wife's cancer journey from diagnosis to surgery and radiation will span all of 3 months (aside from hormone therapy ie pills for 5 years). Virtually all of it paid for by provincial medical system and my modest benefit plan at work. The longest line up we've been in so far was at a bus stop. Of course we're completely outraged at how unfair, uncaring and expensive this has all been. Obviously no one is saying that every Canadian has long waits/has to go elsewhere for care. That your wife didn't is great; others haven't been as fortunate. That's all that's being said. There are good points and negative points to both of our systems, but before changing ours, we want to make sure we don't do it at the expense of the "good." So many here say "the majority of Americans want it but the government doesn't care" or "the Americans want it but the majority of Americans don't care about anyone other than themselves and refuse to have their taxes raised" etc. and it's just not true; nor is it true that Americans have to die because no one will treat them if they don't have coverage/can't afford the care. I do wish your wife all the best. Quote
olp1fan Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 American's don't die, they are just forced to declare bankruptcy No one goes bankrupt up here due to medical bills Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 American's don't die, they are just forced to declare bankruptcy No one goes bankrupt up here due to medical bills Your money or your life! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guest American Woman Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 No one goes bankrupt up here due to medical bills That's simply not true. Quote
olp1fan Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 That's simply not true. oh yeah? Have you any stats? Quote
eyeball Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 I do wish your wife all the best. Thanks. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Congratulations... You too. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Guest American Woman Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 oh yeah? Have you any stats? Admittedly the problem isn't medical bills per se, but medical problems, such as having to be off of work. I've often mentioned this as "a cost" when one has to wait longer for medical procedures. At any rate, medical problems are a leading cause of bankruptcy in Canada. It's my understanding that our system, our disability 'safety net,' is more extensive than yours. The three leading causes of personal bankruptcy in Canada The first one on the list of leading causes of bankruptcy in Canada is job loss, or reduced income in general. Another one of leading contributors to personal bankruptcy in Canada is marriage separation or divorce. The last on our list of leading causes of bankruptcy in Canada, are medical problems; they often can and do lead to a lot of financial problems. [...] if you get sick or injured, and you are off work for a number of months, even with medical insurance your income is reduced, and that makes it more difficult to service your debts. link ---------------------------------------- As for the U.S.: Researchers found that medical spending was a contributing factor in only 17 percent of U.S. bankruptcies. [...] evidence shows that in the only comparable years, personal bankruptcy rates were actually higher in Canada. Personal bankruptcy filings as a percentage of the population were 0.20 percent in the United States during 2006 and 0.27 percent in 2007. In Canada, the numbers are 0.30 percent in both 2006 and 2007. link (Emphasis all mine) Quote
olp1fan Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) I CLEARLY said "No one goes bankrupt up here due to medical bills", then you said "Admittedly the problem isn't medical bills per se" Are you trying to remove the goal posts AW? Never once did I say Canadians don't go bankrupt due to medical problems Edited November 25, 2011 by olp1fan Quote
Guest American Woman Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) I CLEARLY said "No one goes bankrupt up here due to medical bills", then you said "Admittedly the problem isn't medical bills per se" Are you trying to remove the goal posts AW? Never once did I say Canadians don't go bankrupt due to medical problems No, I'm not trying to move the goalposts - just finding mixed/conflicting information. This site says it's uncertain as to whether medical bankruptcies in Canada are due to medical bills or medical problems. Medical problems cause a significant percentage of bankruptcies, although it's unclear whether medical bills or the inability to earn sufficient income due to poor health is the true root cause. The top 10 reasons why Canadians go bankrupt Edited to add: I doubt I'd find it any more comforting to have to declare bankruptcy for medical problems than for medical bills. Edited November 25, 2011 by American Woman Quote
olp1fan Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 No, I'm not trying to move the goalposts - just finding mixed/conflicting information. This site says it's uncertain as to whether medical bankruptcies in Canada are due to medical bills or medical problems. Medical problems cause a significant percentage of bankruptcies, although it's unclear whether medical bills or the inability to earn sufficient income due to poor health is the true root cause. The top 10 reasons why Canadians go bankrupt Edited to add: I doubt I'd find it any more comforting to have to declare bankruptcy for medical problems than for medical bills. So Canadians don't declare bankruptcy due to medical bills nice to know I can be right sometimes Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) The top 10 reasons why Canadians go bankrupt Yipes....and recently Canadians have overtaken Americans for highest average personal debt. Americans are de-leveraging fast, while some Canadians continue to party on!! Edited November 25, 2011 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
olp1fan Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) Yipes....and recently Canadians have overtaken Americans for highest average personal debt. Americans are de-leveraging fast, while some Canadians continue to party on!! yes well everything in Canada is 5-10 % more money in Canada than U.S plus we pay more for heating in the winter Edited November 25, 2011 by olp1fan Quote
Guest American Woman Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 So Canadians don't declare bankruptcy due to medical bills Not true. nice to know I can be right sometimes That's not what it says. Did you even read it?? Repeating: although it's unclear whether medical bills or the inability to earn sufficient income due to poor health is the true root cause. A while back I posted a link to a woman in Canada who had to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills because she had to be treated in the States due to the urgency of her medical situation and the inability to be treated in Canada in a timely fashion. It was her situation that came to mind when I posted my previous response. So it's not correct to say that Canadians never file bankruptcy due to medical bills. Quote
cybercoma Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Posted November 25, 2011 Obviously no one is saying that every Canadian has long waits/has to go elsewhere for care.Because the actual number, which you conveniently refuse to recognize, is 0.125% of Canadians go to the United States for healthcare. So a more accurate statement would be that almost NO Canadians go to the US for healthcare. Quote
olp1fan Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Not true. That's not what it says. Did you even read it?? Repeating: although it's unclear whether medical bills or the inability to earn sufficient income due to poor health is the true root cause. "unclear", so I win by default Quote
cybercoma Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Posted November 25, 2011 No, I'm not trying to move the goalposts - just finding mixed/conflicting information. This site says it's uncertain as to whether medical bankruptcies in Canada are due to medical bills or medical problems.Yes you are! The site you posted clearly states that people go into bankruptcy because they can't service their debts when they are not working due to illness. You not only have that problem in the United States, but the added problem of incurring the additional debts of the healthcare itself. I can tell you how many Canadians declared bankruptcy for their hospital bills: ZERO. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 yes well everything in Canada is 5-10 % more money in Canada than U.S plus we pay more for heating in the winter Really...'cause we have this cheesy Canadian TV show on CNBC that features a budget expert roaming Ontario for irresponsible spending habits. If they don't follow her rules, they don't get any help. Do you have a funny show like that about Americans airing in Canada? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Posted November 25, 2011 Really...'cause we have this cheesy Canadian TV show on CNBC that features a budget expert roaming Ontario for irresponsible spending habits. If they don't follow her rules, they don't get any help. Do you have a funny show like that about Americans airing in Canada? Yeah. Her name is Susan Orman. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Posted November 25, 2011 Yeah. Her name is Susan Orman. Suze doesn't give anybody money....it's a call in show. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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