So what would you do if you saw your coach molesting a child?

[bush_cheney2004]

Good point. I guess I was getting caught up in the heat of it all - best to stick to my earlier decision to 'wait and see.'

I think you have...pointing out the earlier allegations as well. I don't even think the university should be doing its own investigation, and firing Joe Pa is just a distraction in the short term. The mother of one kid tried to nail this guy but got nowhere, perhaps because he only "showered with children".

Edited November 12, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

[msj]

Here you are making bad jokes about rape and you have the nerve to call me a creep?

The "creep" part was really for lack of a better term.

It's the sexist part that should be appalling to you - and still is to me.

I like you CC, so it was disappointing to find you seriously using such a sexist argument in that thread.

Anyway, /hijack again.....

[msj]

:lol:

Yeah, a post all about me is "on topic."

Keep responding about me if you must - the problem, your obsession, is apparently beyond anyone's control.....

That post (#48) was on topic.

Yes, it was also critical of you because you have a terrible habit of spelling out the obvious and presenting it as some kind of profundity which, to me, is grating.

I would hardly call explaining my reaction to your post to be an "obsession beyond anyone's control."

I would call it explaining myself in an open and honest manner although I had lost sight of the intention of the thread - for which I apologize to others.

[cybercoma]

People will often find it difficult to report a person in a position of authority or a position of trust. If a subordinate were doing something wrong, it's much easier to report them.

Edited November 13, 2011 by cybercoma

[Guest American Woman]

I was under the impression that the grad student did eventually report it to the police, but apparently that's not the case. I think he, as the witness, would have been more obligated to go to the police than Joe Paterno would have. Paterno's report would have just been hearsay. Perhaps Paterno's fault lies in not encouraging McQueary to go to the police, but then again, perhaps he did. At this point, there seems to be a lot more questions than answers.

[bush_cheney2004]

I was under the impression that the grad student did eventually report it to the police, but apparently that's not the case. I think he, as the witness, would have been more obligated to go to the police than Joe Paterno would have.

That's my read as well....not sure when the reporting law for health care professionals or other occupations took effect, but Joe Paterno is not going to realistically call the police and report that "a grad student told me...". Paterno did inform his superiors (my understanding).

....Perhaps Paterno's fault lies in not encouraging McQueary to go to the police, but then again, perhaps he did. At this point, there seems to be a lot more questions than answers.

Paterno obviously feels partially responsible for what could have been prevented in subsequent abuse, but I'm not convinced it would have made any difference given that one kid's mother got nowhere with police. This stink needs to leave the civil and college athletics arena and laid bare by a hard nosed criminal investigation.

[olp1fan]

The players on the football field have nothing to do with this...

This is a problem that the administration of the team (including JoPa) and the university have dealt with poorly,to say the least...

the football players think paterno did nothing wrong ....we have a morality issue here..seems like all morals are gone

[olp1fan]

I don't...Joe Pa represents another side of investment in children that is far greater than any single perp that may have been on staff at Penn State. He has helped far more kids in his lifetime.

yeah hes helped more kids get raped than your average sicko

[bush_cheney2004]

yeah hes helped more kids get raped than your average sicko

Bull puckey....stick to stealing panties.

[bush_cheney2004]

the football players think paterno did nothing wrong ....we have a morality issue here..seems like all morals are gone

That's because Joe didn't do anything wrong...but he was part of an organization that did.

[olp1fan]

That's because Joe didn't do anything wrong...but he was part of an organization that did.

the whole school should be shut down until further notice

we don't know how many of those people knew what was going on for years and let it happen

Joe being one

[bush_cheney2004]

the whole school should be shut down until further notice

we don't know how many of those people knew what was going on for years and let it happen

Joe being one

You don't know anything about it either....just wait for American media to tell you as always.

[eyeball]

That's because Joe didn't do anything wrong...but he was part of an organization that did.

Your hero, in as many words, probably said it best; If you're with them you're against us.

Edited November 13, 2011 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

Your hero, in as many words, probably said it best; If you're with them you're against us.

That doesn't even make any sense...and he never said that anyway.

[Guest American Woman]

the whole school should be shut down until further notice

we don't know how many of those people knew what was going on for years and let it happen

Joe being one

Joe "knew" nothing beyond the fact that a grad student claimed he saw Sandusky sexually molest a child. If someone told you that someone did something, would you "know" that that person actually did it? In case you really don't know, the answer would be "no."

But yeah. Good plan. When we "don't know" something, we should presume everyone is guilty - and act accordingly. That's the kind of logic that makes our countries great.

Edited November 13, 2011 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

There is more background coming out now for what police and the D.A.'s office did or would have done for Sandusky's alleged crimes. It turns out that it is very difficult to get a conviction without proof of what the law in that (and other) state's define as "sexual gratification". Physical contact is/was not enough to secure a conviction for child sexual abuse.

[olp1fan]

Joe "knew" nothing beyond the fact that a grad student claimed he saw Sandusky sexually molest a child. If someone told you that someone did something, would you "know" that that person actually did it? In case you really don't know, the answer would be "no."

But yeah. Good plan. When we "don't know" something, we should presume everyone is guilty - and act accordingly. That's the kind of logic that makes our countries great.

I'd have went to the police

that's what you do with serious allegations

you're the third party and it is your duty as a decent human to report that to the police and its up to them to investigate

that is how it works for us normal people

[olp1fan]

There is more background coming out now for what police and the D.A.'s office did or would have done for Sandusky's alleged crimes. It turns out that it is very difficult to get a conviction without proof of what the law in that (and other) state's define as "sexual gratification". Physical contact is/was not enough to secure a conviction for child sexual abuse.

had he went to the police he would have saved his own ass and he'd come out looking like a hero

any decent person would go straight to the police if someone tells them something as serious as this

[bush_cheney2004]

had he went to the police he would have saved his own ass and he'd come out looking like a hero

any decent person would go straight to the police if someone tells them something as serious as this

I don't think so...the university grounds and program were still complicit and liable. There are no heroes in this story.

[olp1fan]

I don't think so...the university grounds and program were still complicit and liable. There are no heroes in this story.

he wouldn't have been fired had he went to the police instead of following chain of command

too bad he's not Jimmy "F*** the chain of command" McNulty

[Guest American Woman]

I'd have went to the police

that's what you do with serious allegations

you're the third party and it is your duty as a decent human to report that to the police and its up to them to investigate

that is how it works for us normal people

Fine. So you would have "went" to the police. So you believe Paterno should have "went" to the police.

That's completely different from saying he "knew" what Sandusky was doing and "let it happen." Which is what you claimed.

[bush_cheney2004]

he wouldn't have been fired had he went to the police instead of following chain of command

too bad he's not Jimmy "F*** the chain of command" McNulty

We don't know that...the board of trustees may have still cleaned house for not following the chain of command! This is not as clear cut as it would appear. Who the hell is Jimmy McNutty?

[olp1fan]

Lets be honest here ...if you were in a leadership position and a person came up to you and said he / she saw someone getting raped you are going to contact the police right away...these allegations are serious enough that warrants that kind of action..if the person is lying then it is not your fault..you will not be in trouble by the police

[olp1fan]

Jimmy McNulty..

From The Wire....you've never seen it? you must watch

Edited November 13, 2011 by olp1fan

[Jack Weber]

It sounds as if there was support for JoePa from players and fans:

After Nebraska had taken a 10-0 lead, fans began chanting, “JoePa, JoePa, JoePa,” at the beginning of the second half and again at the start of the fourth quarter in an futile effort to inspire their team.

There will always be a hard core group of Paterno loyalists — including 80 former players on the sidelines — who will lionize their coach. Two unidentified men were seen kneeling in prayer in front of Paterno’s home at 7:15 a.m., a young boy sat on his father’s shoulders, waving a placard that read, “Joe Pa Got Screwed” and students showed up dressed like Paterno, complete with trademark coke bottle glasses.

link

What kind of father would involve his young son in this - having him hold such a placard?

I don't know...Miguided loyalty???

Look,Joe Paterno is/was one of (if not THE) greatest coach in college football history.It's understandable,even if I don't agree with it, that some might hold this man in some sort of reverence no matter what was facing his legacy.The fact of the matter is that he did'nt ctually do nothing wrong,legally speaking...Of course,this is where we get into the grey areas of the law.While ethics are not on trial,Paterno certainly acted unethically because he did not go to the police with what he knew.He did follow the chain of command and went to the AD who subsequently buried the problem.In hindsight,Paterno should have gone to the cops and let the chips fall where they may.If he had done that,I'll bet he would be properly lionized right now for doing the right thing.

He did'nt...And now he's out of a job and his rightful legacy permanently tarnished...