So what would you do if you saw your coach molesting a child?

[bush_cheney2004]

By any chance do you have that link. I tried yesterday but kept coming up on something different.

Is this what you mean....the actual statute?

http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/crimes-and-offenses/00.063.012.000.html

I would like to see how this could be so hard for a DA in face of the evidence that would have been available .

You have to prove sexual gratification. Other lesser offenses are included (e.g. indecent exposure...a misdemeanor).

[guyser]

What evidence was available? - That's what I'm wondering. Do you have a link providing the evidence that was available?

There is the eyewitness account. He could graphically tell the DA what he saw,

Assuming the Cops arrived quickly and had a kit available to them, swabs , hairs, photo's all could be done. (This may entail immediately taking the child to a hospital to document any tears, rips,blood exchange semen etc) I would think much like a rape. It probably is a rape.

All in all, two witnesses , one perp. This is why bc's mention of it being hard to prosecute and me asking for a link that may explain it away.

It doesnt answer what happened when the cops were told so long ago and the lack of prosecution.

[guyser]

Is this what you mean....the actual statute?

Yes, thank you.

You have to prove sexual gratification. Other lesser offenses are included (e.g. indecent exposure...a misdemeanor).

Here is the relevant section that I feel would convict him, with eyewitness testimony from the Asst coach and the kid.

6312. Sexual abuse of children.

(a) Definition.--As used in this section, "prohibited sexual

act" means sexual intercourse as defined in section 3101

(relating to definitions), masturbation, sadism, masochism,

bestiality, fellatio, cunnilingus, lewd exhibition of the

genitals or nudity if such nudity is depicted for the purpose of

sexual stimulation or gratification of any person who might view

such depiction.

I think you may be interpreting this incorrectly.

The gratification angle is for viewing, not the actual sodomy.

[bush_cheney2004]

....I think you may be interpreting this incorrectly.

The gratification angle is for viewing, not the actual sodomy.

Could be, and I'm no expert on such things, but clearly there must be an element of sexual gratification for the unlawful act to be proven in court. Take a gander at this shopping list for developing a defense for such charges:

http://www.defense-florida.com/lawyer-attorney-1584046.html

In the State of Oregon, the sex crimes laws provide for a very granular parsing of prohibited acts and severity, with a special provision for coach's (ORS 163.425):

http://www.oregoncrimes.com/sexcrimes.htm

"Sexual gratification" is an important element lest parents or health care providers be charged with child sexual abuse or related crimes. It's gotten to the point now where innocent baby photos will raise eyebrows at WalMart!

[blueblood]

Right...just as was originally stated and consistent with "Yell Fire" safety campaigns on many school campuses.

Depends on how redneck you are. Things are done a wee bit different out here in the sticks.

Let's use this as an experiment. If you were on a couples camping trip and the other couple decided to get busy and were loud about it, would you lay there or tell them to quit it. I have been the ass to put a stop to sexcapades, but nobody interrupts my beauty sleep!

[bush_cheney2004]

Depends on how redneck you are. Things are done a wee bit different out here in the sticks.

Right....that's why I guard my sheep!

Let's use this as an experiment. If you were on a couples camping trip and the other couple decided to get busy and were loud about it, would you lay there or tell them to quit it. I have been the ass to put a stop to sexcapades, but nobody interrupts my beauty sleep!

That's why each couple has their own tent.

[blueblood]

Right....that's why I guard my sheep!

That's why each couple has their own tent.

Those clowns from Dixie have to make the rest of us look like circus freaks.

Tents don't stop noise.

[bush_cheney2004]

Those clowns from Dixie have to make the rest of us look like circus freaks.

Tents don't stop noise.

I don't care about the noise....they paid for their camp site same as me. Everybody will sleep better too.

[blueblood]

I don't care about the noise....they paid for their camp site same as me. Everybody will sleep better too.

Pay for camp sites??? That's not camping, that's an outside hotel room. Camping is going to the middle of nowhere overnight. And mr. Blood doesn't put up with hanky panky over 30 decibels.

[bush_cheney2004]

Pay for camp sites??? That's not camping, that's an outside hotel room. Camping is going to the middle of nowhere overnight. And mr. Blood doesn't put up with hanky panky over 30 decibels.

Why not? You gonna tell the bears to shut up too?

[blueblood]

Why not? You gonna tell the bears to shut up too?

Hell that's half the fun of it. I'll let the roman candle take care of that or the chainsaw, if not somebody has a rifle. Bears are usually bluffing most of the time anyway.

Edited November 17, 2011 by blueblood

[bush_cheney2004]

Hell that's half the fun of it. I'll let the roman candle take care of that or the chainsaw, if not somebody has a rifle. Bears are usually bluffing most of the time anyway.

If you want dead quiet....stay home.

[blueblood]

If you want dead quiet....stay home.

If your out in the bush, typically the wildlife haul ass away from you, and it is dead quiet, moreso than the house.

[bush_cheney2004]

If your out in the bush, typically the wildlife haul ass away from you, and it is dead quiet, moreso than the house.

Maybe in the dead of winter, but crickets, frogs, and cicadas make plenty of noise trying to get laid just like that couple in the other tent.

[blueblood]

Maybe in the dead of winter, but crickets, frogs, and cicadas make plenty of noise trying to get laid just like that couple in the other tent.

At least the crickets and frogs and cicadas noise is cionsistent and far away, and is expected. The couple in the other tent, hell no!! That'll wake the dead!!! If you can put up with that, your a nicer guy than me. I'm a prudish ass.

[Bonam]

The couple in the other tent, hell no!!

Er, what else would the couple in the other tent in the middle of nowhere be doing? Anyway, if it's the middle of nowhere, why wouldn't you just move your tent a bit farther away from any other that may be disrupting you? Seems kind of silly to trek for miles away from the nearest human settlement only to be annoyed by your neighbor...

Edited November 17, 2011 by Bonam

[Guest American Woman]

Er, what else would the couple in the other tent in the middle of nowhere be doing? Anyway, if it's the middle of nowhere, why wouldn't you just move your tent a bit farther away from any other that may be disrupting you? Seems kind of silly to trek for miles away from the nearest human settlement only to be annoyed by your neighbor...

Seems odd that there would even be a neighbor in the middle of nowhere. What are the odds? But I agree with your suggestion of moving his tent, as the neighbors have a right to enjoy nature as they choose. Sorry blueblood, it's not all about you!

I have to say, though, I wondered for a minute if I was in the right thread - Talk about thread drift!

Edited November 17, 2011 by American Woman

[blueblood]

Seems odd that there would even be a neighbor in the middle of nowhere. What are the odds? But I agree with your suggestion of moving his tent, as the neighbors have a right to enjoy nature as they choose. Sorry blueblood, it's not all about you!

I have to say, though, I wondered for a minute if I was in the right thread - Talk about thread drift!

It wouldn't be odd if you were going camping with a couple your friends with and planned it. Oh they have the right to hanky panky, but I also have e right to say knock it off, and have exercised that right.

The point of that scenario is to demonstrate that not all people will sit idly by and do nothing while something they think innappropriate is going on. Some do and some don't. Another example is the stories of some people risking a butt kicking to do the right thing during the g20 protests/hockey riots while others stood by and watched.

[Guest American Woman]

It wouldn't be odd if you were going camping with a couple your friends with and planned it. Oh they have the right to hanky panky, but I also have e right to say knock it off, and have exercised that right.

It's still odd to go out in the middle of nowhere and set up camp within 'hanky panky' hearing distance. Why not spread out? And no, you don't have that right as I see it. What they do in private in their tent is their right.

The point of that scenario is to demonstrate that not all people will sit idly by and do nothing while something they think innappropriate is going on.

It's inappropriate for your friends to have sex on a camping trip? In a tent? Why? Because it bothers you?

Some do and some don't. Another example is the stories of some people risking a butt kicking to do the right thing during the g20 protests/hockey riots while others stood by and watched.

Would need more info about that, but to my observation, others joining in the fighting during a riot only results in a higher number of people fighting.

[blueblood]

It's still odd to go out in the middle of nowhere and set up camp within 'hanky panky' hearing distance. Why not spread out? And no, you don't have that right as I see it. What they do in private in their tent is their right.

It's inappropriate for your friends to have sex on a camping trip? In a tent? Why? Because it bothers you?

Would need more info about that, but to my observation, others joining in the fighting during a riot only results in a higher number of people fighting.

And my right to yell shut the **** up while in my own tent is my right as well. Two way street.

They can have sex, but when said sex interrupts my sleep, then its a problem.

I'd post links, but there are quite a lot of pages to post. Google heroes during vancouver riot and heroes during toronto g20 riot. Heck there's even youtube video evidence.

[Guest American Woman]

And my right to yell shut the **** up while in my own tent is my right as well. Two way street.

True. You do have the right to yell it - and they have the right to ignore it.

They can have sex, but when said sex interrupts my sleep, then its a problem.

Your problem, to be precise. As I said, an easy solution is not to set up camp within hearing distance. But yelling at your friends for waking you up - there's no comparison to physically intervening when one sees "inappropriate behavior" such as we are discussing here - although I still think that making a lot of noise so the coach knew he wasn't alone would have been the best way to get him to stop.

I'd post links, but there are quite a lot of pages to post. Google heroes during vancouver riot and heroes during toronto g20 riot. Heck there's even youtube video evidence.

Too general. I don't know what you are referring to and therefore don't know what to look for. I'll stick to my past observations - that jumping into a riot with more fighting just generally adds to the chaos - or ends up badly for the person jumping in. Best leave that to law enforcement officers to deal with.

Edited November 17, 2011 by American Woman

[blueblood]

True. You do have the right to yell it - and they have the right to ignore it.

Your problem, to be precise. As I said, an easy solution is not to set up camp within hearing distance. But yelling at your friends for waking you up - there's no comparison to physically intervening when one sees "inappropriate behavior" such as we are discussing here - although I still think that making a lot of noise so the coach knew he wasn't alone would have been the best way to get him to stop.

Too general. I don't know what you are referring to and therefore don't know what to look for. I'll stick to my past observations - that jumping into a riot with more fighting just generally adds to the chaos - or ends up badly for the person jumping in. Best leave that to law enforcement officers to deal with.

Have you ever yelled at somebody to quit having sex or broken up a fight? It's the fact of stepping in that's the hard part, once your in the degree of intervention doesn't really matter.

heres some examples

Cbc

Sometimes, people have to jump in. That assistant coach could have folded up Sandusky like a cheap tent if Sandusky wanted to get violent.

[Rue]

Could be, and I'm no expert on such things, but clearly there must be an element of sexual gratification for the unlawful act to be proven in court.

No. wrong again, You just can't resist spewing off about the law and mstating it can you? You should have stopped after you said you were no expert. You sure as hell are not. What you are is a loud mouth who thinks if he yells and insults it makes him sound credible. All it does is mask your insecurity and lack of credibility.

To determine whether a crime of sex has been committed the question asked by the court is whether the act was consensual or not. Gratification is not germaine.

Oh wait I can hear it now, " So tell me did you orgasm while you entered her?" " No I came but I didn't enjoy myself."

IO.k. then, let him go. Sex crimes key around the question of consent. The question is whether they were done with people who consented to them. If your brain can't grasp that be quiet with these idiotic comments you spew.

Possession of child pronography is a crime and you don't have to prove someone masterbated with it for it to be a crime to

posess it, It is because the person may be a child who could not give consent that the pictures or pornography is illegal.

By the way putz you were dead wrong about the Pennsylvania statute-please share that expertise, quote the Pennslyvania statute you claim states we are not to report to police when we believe a crime may have happened.

Can' wait.

Clearly your mind can't focus. I write a post clearly defining for you the difference between criminal

and civil negligence standards are, you brain can't grasp it and then say, I mixed them up. No putz take responsibility

for your own confusion. Go back and read it slowly,.

Maybe you need to mouth the words slowly,.

Yer a putz Bush,. Nothing is more pathetic then a wanna be lawyer.

By the way shove up our loud mouth the accusation I make my living off of crime. You are an ass for saying that. The work I referred to is volunteer work. Think before you pull that crap and shove your personal attacks up your ass, You know nothing about me and what I do and what I have done so shut the f..ck up and stick to the issues.

While we are at it, if your wife is 105 pounds and she saw he son being raped I can assure you she would attack the man raping him no matter how big he was yes and get hurt and that is why you putz we would hope somone like me would step in for her. The very example you gave proves the point we are making to you but I doubt you can grasp that given you think someone has to be gratified to prove a sex offense.

Bush shove your bellicose bully loud mouth up your ass. Your bullying ends here with me. The thing about people like you Bush is you are cowards. Beneath the loud insults is an insecure fool.

No Bush for it aint right to look the other way when someone rapes a boy. The law does not condone that and the real world does not condone it but people like you do. The world is not made up just of people like you Bush..Some of us have a

different perspective. Your pronouncement of what is practical is your subjective opinion and in my opinion its just

you justifying being an ignorant, insensitive, me first sob. You are precisely the kind of person that enables pedophiles to

find a cover. Your rationalization of looking the other way empowers their ability to function under the cloak of your moral

paralysis.

You talk like a privileged sheltered man who says-it aint my problem when he walks by some guy on the street bleeding to death,

Right Bush. Go on home. It aint your problem and I am a sanctimonious ass because I say we all should stop and help the guy

as best we can.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Rue

[Guest American Woman]

Joe Paterno has died. Fired Penn State coach Joe Paterno dead at 85

Happy Valley was perfect for Joe Paterno, a place where "JoePa" knew best, where he not only won more football games than any other major college coach, but won them the right way: with integrity and sportsmanship. A place where character came first, championships second.

Behind it all, however, was an ugly secret that ran counter to everything the revered coach stood for.

Paterno, a sainted figure at Penn State for almost half a century but scarred forever by the child sex abuse scandal that brought his career to a stunning end, died Sunday at age 85.

[guyser]

Joe Paterno has died.

Lets hope they dont have a moment of silence....thats what got him into trouble in the first place!

Ba da bing !