Occupy Toronto Protestors

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I think that as governts continue to be more and more corporate controlled eventually we will see this kind of activity stopped completely, or marginalized to the point where its meaningless.

Absolutely.

You don't want the masses getting unruly now. They stop buying products.

It's a depressing reality.

[Shwa]

We have been seeing these sort of limits on protest more and more lately. We create "designated protest" zones, we round up and arrest large crowds of innocent people (lots of them not even protesters), knowing full well it violates their rights, and then we just drop the charges later.

It is a slippery slope that one hopes errs on the side of individual rights.

I think that as governts continue to be more and more corporate controlled eventually we will see this kind of activity stopped completely, or marginalized to the point where its meaningless.

That is when things turn violent I think, so let's hope it never gets to that point.

But I won't hold my breath.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I liked the idea of using junk mail to send messages back to the banks. Edited November 17, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[CPCFTW]

I don't see why it's so hard to believe there are limits to peaceful assembly and dissent. I couldn't round up 100 like-minded individuals and set up camp on the 401 in uptown Toronto for months demanding that we dismantle public health care.

Right to protest on public property is limited by the effect that it has on other members of the public. Pretty simple stuff folks.

[jacee]

I don't see why it's so hard to believe there are limits to peaceful assembly and dissent. I couldn't round up 100 like-minded individuals and set up camp on the 401 in uptown Toronto for months demanding that we dismantle public health care.

Well you can ... if you give up your health card ... or you could try burning it!

Ya! And invite other people to come and burn theirs too.

Or just sell it.

What kind of crowd of support would you expect?

I don't want to be a downer but

I don't think many people will care about your cause ...

But I'm pretty sure they won't let you camp in the. park though.

Right to protest on public property is limited by the effect that it has on other members of the public. Pretty simple stuff folks.

Well I wouldn't be surprised if a judge sees it somewhat that way, though in this case no one is prevented from using the park - all are welcome.

But let's be honest ... the reason people can't camp indefinitely in parks is because they don't want homeless people doing it ... but none of us really ... we aren't allowed to live outside on public property for free. Hmmm ...

Perhaps a judge will see it differently ...

This protest wouldn't be what it is without occupying something ...

About 10 people who had pitched a tent inside the Bank of America branch

in San Francisco have peacefully surrendered to police.

http://www.mercurynews.com/occupy-oakland/ci_19347111

I think it points to a need for a people's forum.

Edited November 17, 2011 by jacee

[grogy]

We are talking about the Charter of Rights and Freedoms here. If you want to go on about the right to bear arms, move south until you come to a border.

So you don't believe in the right to self defense? Freedom is freedom, or is freedom only something that a liberal can decide upon?

All things including freedom have limits in a civil society.

Edited November 17, 2011 by grogy

[CPCFTW]

Well you can ... if you give up your health card ... or you could try burning it!

Ya! And invite other people to come and burn theirs too.

Or just sell it.

What kind of crowd of support would you expect?

I don't want to be a downer but

I don't think many people will care about your cause ...

But I'm pretty sure they won't let you camp in the. park though.

Well I wouldn't be surprised if a judge sees it somewhat that way, though in this case no one is prevented from using the park - all are welcome.

Why would I have to burn my health card? I already paid for it through taxes. And I don't see you claiming that the occupy protesters have to burn their ipads, laptops, designer clothes, and bank cards.

Of course it would be hard to find 100 people who wanted to camp out indefinitely against public health care because anyone opposed to it would have a job.

But that has nothing to do with my original point that you can't just set up camp at any public location, call it a protest, and scream "human rights violation!!" when the cops come to take your tents away.

Edited November 17, 2011 by CPCFTW

[Shwa]

So you don't believe in the right to self defense? Freedom is freedom, or is freedom only something that a liberal can decide upon?

I said "right to bear arms." Now how much mental masturbation did you have to do to suggest that I "don't believe in the right to self-defence?" Seriously, is that something only a conservative can decide upon?

All things including freedom have limits in a civil society.

Nooo, really? Thanks for pointing that out Mr. Voltaire, sir.

[Shwa]

But that has nothing to do with my original point that you can't just set up camp at any public location, call it a protest, and scream "human rights violation!!" when the cops come to take your tents away.

Yes we can. We have freedom of expression too.

[Boges]

Maybe they would burn their Health Card if it wasn't illegal to obtain healthcare in the country any other way. Just a thought.

But the example is an accurate one. You're acting like The Occupy Movement is representative of a gigantic slice of the population. Has the Toronto protest ever garnered more than 3,000 people?

You could get more people to come out to an Anti-Abortion rally.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Boges

[Shwa]

Maybe they would burn their Health Card if it wasn't illegal to obtain healthcare in the country any other way. Just a thought.

But the example is an accurate one. You're acting like The Occupy Movement is representative of a gigantic slice of the population. Has the Toronto protest ever garnered more than 3,000 people?

You could get more people to come out to an Anti-Abortion rally.

The Charter doesn't specify any limits on the freedom of assembly based on popularity. You have to remember that. It isn't about the ends, it is about the means.

[Black Dog]

Classy people.

http://www.newstalk1010.com/News/localnews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10315191

Terrible writing/reporting. What happened to multiple sources?

[Shwa]

Good opinion, though not a legal opinion, from David Schneiderman, a professor of law at the University of Toronto.

Toronto’s protesters have the right to stay put

Canadians shouldn’t fear the exercise of democratic rights – they should encourage it. If the protesters have taught us anything, it’s that democracy isn’t confined to episodic elections but can be lived, if one is committed to do so, on a daily basis.

Also, in a CP24 interview on Tuesday, a Dean of St. James, which I believe technically owns the St. James Park says that the protesters are free to stay. They have this on their website:

Update from the Dean of St. James Cathedral on "Occupy Toronto"

November 15, 2011, 4:30pm

The City of Toronto has issued a notice under the Trespass to Property Act requiring Occupy Toronto to remove tents, shelters, structures, equipment and debris from St. James Park.

Today the Cathedral has been in conversation with the City, the Police, Occupy Toronto, and Councillor Pam McConnell. We are meeting again tomorrow.

Our primary concern is for the safety of the most vulnerable members of the Occupy Toronto movement. We are also looking to find a way to continue the conversation around the issues raised by the movement.

The Very Reverend Douglas Stoute,

Dean of Toronto & Rector of St. James Cathedral

Edited November 17, 2011 by Shwa

[Boges]

Also, in a CP24 interview on Tuesday, a Dean of St. James, which I believe technically owns the St. James Park says that the protesters are free to stay. They have this on their website:

Such Dooshy Christians eh.

BTW that sentiment is more about the Homeless people that don't really have any place to go more than it is about the protesters right to stay.

I heard this opinion from Councillor Josh Matilow, He never even commented on the constitutional rights of the protesters.

The church doesn't own the entire part, they own a portion of the park. If the protesters want to stay at the portion of the park owned by the church no one can say anything as long as the church allows them to stay.

[blueblood]

The Charter doesn't specify any limits on the freedom of assembly based on popularity. You have to remember that. It isn't about the ends, it is about the means.

Does it say anything when said freedom of assembly can interfere with other's freedoms?

[charter.rights]

Does it say anything when said freedom of assembly can interfere with other's freedoms?

The potential for interference does not give one the right to ignore a groups' right to protest.

The courts have held that "reasonable accommodation" must be the goal with a blance being struck between the competing rights.

However, there are no other freedoms being interfered with in the Occupy Protests that have not been already dealt with under the law. So your question is a red herring.

[Boges]

However, there are no other freedoms being interfered with in the Occupy Protests that have not been already dealt with under the law. So your question is a red herring.

Going to keep saying that if the court ruling goes against the Occupiers on Saturday?

[Keepitsimple]

It's all media hype....nothing more. Why do these "protesters" camp in the park? Why not stay all day, go home and come back? If these motley crews represented even one percent, as opposed to 99% they claim.....they'd have more than enough people to organize a protest where different people came out every day. Why can't the "Occupy Protest" reach enough people to have just a few thousand give up one day a month so that hundreds could come out every day to protest? Now that would be a protest that represented something significant. But the truth is - here in Canada, nobody really cares that much. It really was the greed and gluttony of America's unregulated Wall Street crooks that unleashed this frustration but it falls on deaf ears here in Canada.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Keepitsimple

[Shwa]

Does it say anything when said freedom of assembly can interfere with other's freedoms?

Why don't you actually read the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and get back to us. I believe it is helpful for Canadians to be aware of the Charter and Rights of Freedoms so as not to appear confused on Internet message boards. So, here is a link to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms for you.

[blueblood]

Why don't you actually read the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and get back to us. I believe it is helpful for Canadians to be aware of the Charter and Rights of Freedoms so as not to appear confused on Internet message boards. So, here is a link to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms for you.

Read #7.

[Boges]

So I just heard on the radio that Pastor of the Church will abide by whatever the judge rules so there is no safe zone.

[blueblood]

It's all media hype....nothing more. Why do these "protesters" camp in the park? Why not stay all day, go home and come back? If these motley crews represented even one percent, as opposed to 99% they claim.....they'd have more than enough people to organize a protest where different people came out every day. Why can't the "Occupy Protest" reach enough people to have just a few thousand give up one day a month so that hundreds could come out every day to protest? Now that would be a protest that represented something significant. But the truth is - here in Canada, nobody really cares that much. It really was the greed and gluttony of America's unregulated Wall Street crooks that unleashed this frustration but it falls on deaf ears here in Canada.

You'll have to throw in greed and gluttony of Americans in general and their gov't in with that as well.

[Boges]

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

[charter.rights]

Read #7.

You can't cherry pick the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

[charter.rights]

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

The two by-laws aren't reasonable limits.