Occupy Toronto Protestors

[jacee]

Yup...

http://www.thecomputermechanics.com/forums/showthread.php?19249-Harper-appoints-a-new-Supreme-Court-Judge

And with that I'm done here and will begin serving the 30 day suspension of my posting privileges which were supposedly taken from me earlier

See you loons, kooks amd right wing wastes of skin in a month's time...some of you..maybe even before that

Sorry to hear that Rick.

I'm not impressed by that judge's creds either.

I'm not too surprised at the ruling, regardless.

If homeless people are also allowed to camp in any city park anytime, then so can anyone else.

Until then, nobody can camp there.

Occupy will survive.

I believe what the Occupiers say ...

It's unstoppable.

[Shwa]

None of the world's problems are caused by economists.

Except for the problems directly attributed to Marxism. And then there were the economists that were advising unproblematic people such as Stalin, Franco, Hitler and Mao. Etc.

First of all, things were a lot worse economically prior to modern economics.

I am betting there is more than a passing influence in presentism and ethnocentrism in this statement. But tell me, when did "modern economics" start. Let me guess: the 1950's right?

People were much poorer and countries believed in invading to obtain scarce resources rather than trading.

Other than poor being a relative term, surely you do not include petroleum in this scarce-resources/trading-only model? Oh, to return to simpler times when it was only bananas.

Secondly, any implementation of the suggestions of economists is bastardized by the influence of politics/nationalism.

Well economics is a social science afterall, so who can blame the politics/nationalism from making their point? One could even say that politics has been bastardized by economists just as easily. Take Stalins economic programs in the Ukraine in the 1930's for example...

[Boges]

I guess they're going to evict them when they don't expect it.

[Shwa]

I guess they're going to evict them when they don't expect it.

Could also be a period time they are giving them to consult their legal advisors regarding an appeal of the recent judgement. Trust me, TPS does not want to be violating the Charter of Rights. Again.

[Boges]

Looks like they might not have to do much to get the people out.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/22/occupy-toronto-siege-weakening

TORONTO - The Occupy Toronto siege of St. James Park was showing signs of weakening Tuesday morning.

The movement's food tent on the southwestern edge of the park had been dismantled, and one of the two young men who was chained to a yurt Monday afternoon was spotted walking through the park, free of his bonds.

The man, calling himself only Trey, had been chained to the yurt along with fellow Occupier Jordan Walsh, 20.

A white OPSEU van sat with its back doors wide open while two men dismantled one of the encampment's yurts. The yurts were donated to Occupy Toronto shortly after protesters took over St. James Park.

One of the men, calling himself only Stanley, confirmed that his boss told him to take down the yurt after Justice David Brown on Monday morning upheld an eviction notice issued by the city.

Gone were the roving groups of Occupiers with video and cellphone cameras.

Also gone were the loud and constant bellowing of Occupy slogans, save for a few.

NO YURTS!!!!

[Keepitsimple]

Heard a short interview on AM640 with a Toronto teacher who was encouraging teachers to go down to the park and support their Union brothers. It's pretty obvious that the relatively few genuine protesters have been completely over-run by the Unions and the OCAP travesty. It's nothing but a joke now.

[CPCFTW]

Looks like they might not have to do much to get the people out.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/22/occupy-toronto-siege-weakening

NO YURTS!!!!

They were protesting a general lack of yurts right?

[Boges]

They're booting them this morning.

Apparently no one is getting arrested. . . yet.

[Mr.Canada]

They're booting them this morning.

Apparently no one is getting arrested. . . yet.

Finally. The people have come to their senses and booted out these people who are creating a city in our parks that are for everyone not just for the whiners.

Some were arrested as well.

[jacee]

Hundreds of workers will march on Bay Street at Noon today to condemn the greed of Canada's financial sector and the impunity with which it has accumulated wealth at the expense of 99% of the population. Joining the protest will be participants from Occupy Ottawa, London, Kingston and Toronto.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/tsx-and-bank-of-montreal-focus-of-bay-street-noon-demonstration-1590944.htm

They're there. TSX has locked its doors.

Rock it!!

Edited November 24, 2011 by jacee

[Trial-and-Error]

BTW if you think this is a worthy "war" then why praytell aren't you camped out there?

Oh, tiffle, run along and play and be damned thankful that we have people who are willing and able to literally put their lives on the line in order to bring attention to a number of critical issues that plague us today. I bet you're one of those who when anything financially goes wrong with the country point to the welfare people as the problem. Yep, thought so. You must be very young indeed not to have figured out that the real welfare beneficiaries reside at the top of the pyramid--politicians and all those individuals, corporations and banks who are exorbitantly monied and/or supremely connected are the enemy. Your beloved Harper government bailed out the Canadian Chartered Banks to the tune of 75 billion dollars--per capita, the exact same amount as did the U.S. Fun stuff, eh wot? Funnier still is that Harper denies it. Yep, your boy is a real straight shooter--to your balls. And just how many strings do you think were attached to the bailout? Dunt know? Exactly the same number as in the States. ZERO..............cuz the peoples who fill the public troughs with their hard earned money duzn't have the right to know how their monies will be spent by the bankers.

Little wonder that those who go into politics will lie, cheat, steal, throw their mothers to the wolves, whatever it takes to get elected. Whatever for? Well, naturally, they are doing it all for YOU. They luvs ya. They cares for ya. They wants t' help. It's not about them; it's about you. Uh-huh. Sad to say, I could never relate to just how noble they wanted me to see them as. Oh, there are a few good ones, but by the time they are suitably indoctrinated by the incumbents, they soon smarten up. Nothing like peer pressure to keep you in your place. And then after awhile, the vast majority of the few good ones simply settle in and have a right good old time of it. And we who the politicians declare they wants t' help gets to pick up the tab for anything government wants to do. Such a deal. You get democracy now every four years; in the interim, you are persona non grata and not worth a pinch of you know what.

If I had had more than an ounce of larceny in me and could enjoy honing the art of lying, I might just have thrown my hat into the ring. It's one helluva gig. One can only dream of hunkering down with your counterparts in the HoC to set your own salary and benefits package. Then there're the connections you make as you are being courted by all and sundry--certainly nothing to scoff at; besides which that translates into megabucks after you leave government cuz whilst you were there, well, ya done yer duty--in a manner of speaking. And this silly business of answering your critics whilst in office, sheeeesh, I don't think so. Well, not if you're Harper or a member of HIS Cabinet. Ya just tell the press (the guys and gals who speak for the people--Christ, I'm actually choking on this one--to bugger off. The thrill of power must be exhilarating--ya do what you please and bugger the people. YES! Datsa your boy, Boges.

Well, I ain't got no religion and I ain't gots the stomach for skullduggery; and I ain't into hangin' or fillin' up prisons; got no will to send young men and women to fight in unjust, criminal wars so the guys at the top can makes plenty of bucks outfittin' the war; dunt feel creative enough to build bogus lakes for other well heeled World leaders to appreciate on your dime; I dun't want to see the Canadian Health Care system tank out of deliberate mismanagement; I just don't got the right stuff. That's why I'm at the bottom of the heap, which is where you are, Boges, but you don't know it yet. Or maybe yer connected. Oooooh, now there's a thought. Either way, you're on the wrong side of the argument. I know these things.

As for your retort to Rick--Come, come, is that all you've got?

[Boges]

As for your retort to Rick--Come, come, is that all you've got?

Dude you cherry picked one comment out of many I've made in this thread. Rick was essentially advocating violence in this thread.

I'm more than sympathetic to the issues these "Occupiers" were trying to make but their tactics did more to distract from the issues than it did to bring attention to it.

When you squat in a public park and just stay there, you only really bring attention to yourselves not your cause. If they tried to camp at Queen's Park or tried to make life uncomfortable for the powers that be on Bay Street then perhaps I could be sympathetic.

But these people took control of a public mark and their only real victims were the people that lived near the park, not the 1% they were screaming about.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Boges

[cybercoma]

Rick was essentially advocating violence in this thread.

So what? The mayors of these cities and the Chancellors at UC Davis and Berkley also advocated violence by sending police in to pepper spray protesters in the face, crack their skulls with tear gas canisters and destroy all of their books, computers, and tents. I don't you criticizing their use of violence on people that have done absolutely nothing destructive or violent in their protests.

[Boges]

So what? The mayors of these cities and the Chancellors at UC Davis and Berkley also advocated violence by sending police in to pepper spray protesters in the face, crack their skulls with tear gas canisters and destroy all of their books, computers, and tents. I don't you criticizing their use of violence on people that have done absolutely nothing destructive or violent in their protests.

When was Pepper Spray or Tear Gas ever used at St James Park?

[jacee]

Your beloved Harper government bailed out the Canadian Chartered Banks to the tune of 75 billion dollars--per capita, the exact same amount as did the U.S. Fun stuff, eh wot? Funnier still is that Harper denies it. Yep, your boy is a real straight shooter--to your balls.

Trial-and-error, I love your whole post and welcome you to the board. Keep posting!

The issue of Canadian bank bailouts is still secretive in Canada, and needs to be exposed. We're paying for it. We have a right to know and a responsibility to act on the information.

Dude you cherry picked one comment out of many I've made in this thread. Rick was essentially advocating violence in this thread.

I'm more than sympathetic to the issues these "Occupiers" were trying to make but their tactics did more to distract from the issues than it did to bring attention to it.

When you squat in a public park and just stay there, you only really bring attention to yourselves not your cause. If they tried to camp at Queen's Park or tried to make life uncomfortable for the powers that be on Bay Street then perhaps I could be sympathetic.

But these people took control of a public mark and their only real victims were the people that lived near the park, not the 1% they were screaming about.

Boges, I get it. However, I disagree to some extent: The OCCUPY movement would never have had the impact it is having without the in-your-face occupations of the parks. It may not last forever, but it was a necessary initial tactic.

Now the movement is mostly moving indoors to more traditional operations, consolidating national and international connections and coordinating actions.

The occupations were just the vanguard, to test public support ... which is HUGE ... and to be a very public face and gathering place. It also made very public the development and implementation of the direct democracy general assemblies that anyone can participate in. It's unique, organized, possibly slow (as democracy is), and because it is/was out in the open, literally, in the parks, people learned a lot about it very quickly.

Those who criticize protesters and defend the 1% would criticize no matter how the movement operated. Those who focused on the problems of drugs, alcohol and violence that accompanied the homeless people into the OCCUPY camps are grasping at straws because those problems happen on the street everyday and they don't pay attention then. The homeless people, more even than the occupiers themselves, epitomize the deep fractures in our society, where those with good fortune come to believe they are more deserving, and dismiss those less fortunate to 'deserve' their punishment.

It isn't so: A human being is a human being and those who are 'left behind' are the signal that something is terribly wrong. The rapidly increasing wealth of the 1% is being taken from the rest of us, and the cracks in the system are now exposed. We face a further round of 'austerity' cuts in services, with the most vulnerable among us already in dangerous circumstances, postsecondary graduates lacking opportunities, older workers unemployed and considered unemployable, the elder population about to increase dramatically, putting pressure on the system that will open more cracks and fissures that vulnerable people will fall through ...

The current system of power-by-wealth via corruption of our democracy, ie, by bending the political will of our governments - regardless of political party - to serve corporate interests over the interests of ALL Canadians ... that system is no longer acceptable, no longer viable: It only leads down the road of increasing public discontent, activism, and ultimately civil disobedience, disorder, and a complete breakdown in 'civil society' - rioting, looting, and pre-dominance of an underground economy.

Those who denigrate the OCCUPY movement might want to reconsider: Would they rather deal with an open, democratic movement that respects expression of ideas and seeks cooperative common solutions ... or the rapid expansion, indeed takeover, by the underground economy?

Don't be too bothered by the lackeys of the 1% who malign the OCCUPY movement: They're just stooges following orders blindly to ingratiate themselves to the 1%. They do it out of fear of the wealthy and powerful, because they know their wrath and try to avoid it.

The Occupiers, however, have no fear of the 1% or their stooges, and persist with direct democracy because Canadians see themselves as a democracy and have those values. It is a very mainstream movement. It's the power cabal of the 1% and their bought-and-sold-out politicians and other lackies that are out of step with Canadian values.

Edited November 28, 2011 by jacee

[Archanfel]

Boges, I get it. However, I disagree to some extent: The OCCUPY movement would never have had the impact it is having without the in-your-face occupations of the parks. It may not last forever, but it was a necessary initial tactic.

Now the movement is mostly moving indoors to more traditional operations, consolidating national and international connections and coordinating actions.

The occupations were just the vanguard, to test public support ... which is HUGE ... and to be a very public face and gathering place. It also made very public the development and implementation of the direct democracy general assemblies that anyone can participate in. It's unique, organized, possibly slow (as democracy is), and because it is/was out in the open, literally, in the parks, people learned a lot about it very quickly.

Exactly what impact did it have, other than exposing it's the occupiers who are the 0.1%? Toronto has 2.5M people. How many people participated in the movement? Canada has 34M people, how many participated in the movement nation wide? .1% might have been generous. If that's HUGE, then the number of multi-millionaires in Canada are HUGE.

[Trial-and-Error]

Trial-and-error, I love your whole post and welcome you to the board. Keep posting!

The issue of Canadian bank bailouts is still secretive in Canada, and needs to be exposed. We're paying for it. We have a right to know and a responsibility to act on the information.

Boges, I get it. However, I disagree to some extent: The OCCUPY movement would never have had the impact it is having without the in-your-face occupations of the parks. It may not last forever, but it was a necessary initial tactic.

Now the movement is mostly moving indoors to more traditional operations, consolidating national and international connections and coordinating actions.

The occupations were just the vanguard, to test public support ... which is HUGE ... and to be a very public face and gathering place. It also made very public the development and implementation of the direct democracy general assemblies that anyone can participate in. It's unique, organized, possibly slow (as democracy is), and because it is/was out in the open, literally, in the parks, people learned a lot about it very quickly.

Those who criticize protesters and defend the 1% would criticize no matter how the movement operated. Those who focused on the problems of drugs, alcohol and violence that accompanied the homeless people into the OCCUPY camps are grasping at straws because those problems happen on the street everyday and they don't pay attention then. The homeless people, more even than the occupiers themselves, epitomize the deep fractures in our society, where those with good fortune come to believe they are more deserving, and dismiss those less fortunate to 'deserve' their punishment.

It isn't so: A human being is a human being and those who are 'left behind' are the signal that something is terribly wrong. The rapidly increasing wealth of the 1% is being taken from the rest of us, and the cracks in the system are now exposed. We face a further round of 'austerity' cuts in services, with the most vulnerable among us already in dangerous circumstances, postsecondary graduates lacking opportunities, older workers unemployed and considered unemployable, the elder population about to increase dramatically, putting pressure on the system that will open more cracks and fissures that vulnerable people will fall through ...

The current system of power-by-wealth via corruption of our democracy, ie, by bending the political will of our governments - regardless of political party - to serve corporate interests over the interests of ALL Canadians ... that system is no longer acceptable, no longer viable: It only leads down the road of increasing public discontent, activism, and ultimately civil disobedience, disorder, and a complete breakdown in 'civil society' - rioting, looting, and pre-dominance of an underground economy.

Those who denigrate the OCCUPY movement might want to reconsider: Would they rather deal with an open, democratic movement that respects expression of ideas and seeks cooperative common solutions ... or the rapid expansion, indeed takeover, by the underground economy?

Don't be too bothered by the lackeys of the 1% who malign the OCCUPY movement: They're just stooges following orders blindly to ingratiate themselves to the 1%. They do it out of fear of the wealthy and powerful, because they know their wrath and try to avoid it.

The Occupiers, however, have no fear of the 1% or their stooges, and persist with direct democracy because Canadians see themselves as a democracy and have those values. It is a very mainstream movement. It's the power cabal of the 1% and their bought-and-sold-out politicians and other lackies that are out of step with Canadian values.

Arrived home in the wee small hours the other morning thinking I could squeeze in one more activity and respond to your post, Jacee. What was I thinking? No sooner had I logged in and readied myself for action, I found my eyes losing their focus and my normally nimble fingers slacking off shamelessly. The brain was quickly shutting down and fighting its loss of stamina due to the years I had packed on to it was not an option. So I hied myself off to bed.

But now I'm back at the starting line.

Jacee, many thanks for your very kind words and welcome. Seems that we are in synch on the various issues you raise. Certainly the points you make are worth remembering. I was particularly touched by your insights on poverty in this land of plenty. It seems that in any kind of financial crunch, the already disenfranchised are made to be the first to suffer the harsh effects. As if that weren't bad enough, they become the inevitable scapegoats of the problem. Were it not such a heartless, boldface lie, it would be effing funny. And I agree, too, that the Wallstreet movement belongs in the public arena and that we should be exceedingly grateful to those who are putting their very beings on the line for the rest of us who can't or won't participate. However, if the Movement participants are successful, the rest of us will gladly benefit.

And now, Jacee, I'm about to indulge myself in something many will find outrageous— especially in light of just how far out I am going. But here we go just the same. Caveat: It's just a surmise nonetheless.

Given that violent crime rates are decreasing what could be motivating Harper to build more prisons? You can say anything about dear Stephen except that he's stupid and ill informed. He knows full well what the stats are on crime. So, could it be............is it at all possible................probable even...................that he needs places in which to incarcerate dissenters? Aware of just what additional legislation he plans to bring in and aware that the vast majority will take umbrage, and anticipating the growth of the WS movement, he brings in legislation that will see more prisons built.

Think everyone, since 911, a lot of things have come to pass that would have been unimaginable a decade ago. As you should know, the U.S. Constitution has all but been canabalized; the media is now in the hands of a few; there is little independent reporting going on and being presented in mainstream media; the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya have been without proven public cause; and now we're hitting on Iran. Canada's anthem is not O Canada but “I Will Follow You” and it does follow the dictates of the U.S. Either covertly or openly. Now, throw in this rather nasty business of submitting to the indignities of being zapped or groped at airports. Are they kidding me? That I should attend an airport to be groped, zapped or both? Not on your life. I will pay the price by eliminating all trips which must of necessity involve airports. Yes, folks, I, in my own small way, am standing firm and wish to hell others would follow suit. But invoking and practicing principles is not my only gig. I can also practice pragmatism which I do now by granting exceptions to those who must use air travel as part of their jobs. For all others who refuse to follow my example, I ask as a bare minimum that you acknowledge the fact that you allow yourselves to be herded like so much cattle and sheep.

This crap is unheard of in a democratic society. And yet, people are buying into it on one level or another. Great stuff, cuz there's more to come. And the flavour will be the same. As for the new prisons, for now I'm just surmizing that Harper is preparing for something quite nefarious—something we refuse to even contemplate. I don't look at things that way. I prepare myself for the worst but hope like hell for the best.

I can't for the life of me think that building more prisons has anything to do with incarcerating the run of the mill criminal but rather it's about warehousing political “criminals.” So one and all, bite me for such an outrageous, highly improbable, silly notion. Ready your incisors and attack at will. But catch me if you can cuz I'm outta here.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Trial-and-Error

[Boges]

$20,000-$60,000 to repair the damage done to the park by the Occupiers. Paid by the Toronto taxpayers of course.

Guess the Ford's will have to close another pool.

Good job!

[Shwa]

$20,000-$60,000 to repair the damage done to the park by the Occupiers. Paid by the Toronto taxpayers of course.

But millions to repair the damage to the feelings of the people in the neighbourhood and their inability to walk Fifi or sell their overprices lattes for a month.

Oh, the humanity.

Guess the Ford's will have to close another pool.

He'd be smarter to close the park.

Good job!

Well at least the Occupy movement said they'd kick in $10k. Rather decent of them. $10k will buy a heck of a lot of grass seed.

[Boges]

You don't seem to me as the type of guy to mock Hipsters Shwa.

OPSEU should kick in some cash since they're the ones who donated the Yurts.

[Michael Hardner]

$20,000-$60,000 to repair the damage done to the park by the Occupiers. Paid by the Toronto taxpayers of course.

Guess the Ford's will have to close another pool.

Good job!

I would love it if we had visibility into all city expenses to this level. In fact, this could be a drop in the bucket for all we know.

[Boges]

I would love it if we had visibility into all city expenses to this level. In fact, this could be a drop in the bucket for all we know.

Probably, but it's an unneeded drop in the bucket.

If I went to a public park and started pouring bleach on the grass would the City just eat the cost or send me a bill?

[Michael Hardner]

If I went to a public park and started pouring bleach on the grass would the City just eat the cost or send me a bill?

You might indeed be charged, but would you make the front page of every paper ?

[Boges]

You might indeed be charged, but would you make the front page of every paper ?

If I was raging against the 1% I might.

[Shwa]

If I was raging against the 1% I might.

What's with all the mights and ifs? I think you should do it as a social experiment.

Get back to us with the results.