Derek 2.0 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Trudeau has also criticized a number of his father's initiatives and policies, so this idea that he's going to be a Pierre Trudeau clone is unwarranted. I'm sorry, Derek, I simply do not believe that the son should bear the sins (real or perceived) of the father. If you want to criticize Justin Trudeau's proposals, I'm completely cool with that, but if you're going to start criticizing him based on a three decade old government, then yeah, I have a big problem with that. Why? A Liberal Prime Minister Trudeau in 2015 is promising a review of the Canadian Forces, like was done, by a Liberal Prime Minister Trudeau in 1968-1970, absent their relationship, contrasting similar policies are very valid. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Why? A Liberal Prime Minister Trudeau in 2015 is promising a review of the Canadian Forces, like was done, by a Liberal Prime Minister Trudeau in 1968-1970, absent their relationship, contrasting similar policies are very valid. The word "review" means a lot of things. You're just trying to condemn a potential Liberal government with the actions of a Liberal government four decades ago. Quote
Smallc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) What's wrong with a review? The Conservatives can't pay for the military the promised. It seems a review is needed. Edited October 8, 2015 by Smallc Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 The word "review" means a lot of things. You're just trying to condemn a potential Liberal government with the actions of a Liberal government four decades ago. No, I'm condemning a potential Liberal Government for its own promises, well contrasting it with a past Liberal Government that promised much the same.........And yes, review can mean a lot of things, but when combined with "leaner" and "cutting budgets", the intent should be quite clear. Quote
waldo Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 No, I'm condemning a potential Liberal Government for its own promises, well contrasting it with a past Liberal Government that promised much the same.........And yes, review can mean a lot of things, but when combined with "leaner" and "cutting budgets", the intent should be quite clear. the actual phrasing used: a strategy for a “leaner, more agile, and better-equipped” military... intended to work to change the failing procurement system. Is there a problem? . Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 What's wrong with a review? The Conservatives can't pay for the military the promised. It seems a review is needed. Nothing, if the Liberals plan to focus the Canadian military onto UN Peacekeeping, disaster response and domestic defense/policing etc, a review will clearly find we can cut all sorts of capabilities within the current force structure that would no longer be needed for its new stated purpose.........Setting the road map to dismantle the Forces first is very prudent. Quote
Argus Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 No, I'm condemning a potential Liberal Government for its own promises, well contrasting it with a past Liberal Government that promised much the same. If only you could contrast it with a conservative government which treated the military better than Jean Chretien. Alas.... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Derek 2.0 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 the actual phrasing used: a strategy for a “leaner, more agile, and better-equipped” military... intended to work to change the failing procurement system. Is there a problem? . "Leaner" combined with a review of current capabilities that would no longer be needed, equates to a smaller force. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 If only you could contrast it with a conservative government which treated the military better than Jean Chretien. Alas.... I feel when Trudeau is done, the Forces will look back on Chretien/Martin/Harper with nostalgia. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 I feel when Trudeau is done, the Forces will look back on Chretien/Martin/Harper with nostalgia. Unless you have a crystal ball, this is little more than an attack taken out of thin air. It's fascinating how you portray yourself as analytical, until push comes to shove, and then you're just like any other partisan. Quote
Argus Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 I feel when Trudeau is done, the Forces will look back on Chretien/Martin/Harper with nostalgia. Perhaps, but the Conservatives have done nothing to persuade those who care about the military that this is a reason to vote for them. I would rate their stewardship as a complete and total failure on every single count, insofar as the military file goes. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Derek 2.0 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Unless you have a crystal ball, this is little more than an attack taken out of thin air. It's fascinating how you portray yourself as analytical, until push comes to shove, and then you're just like any other partisan. There is no need for a crystal ball, when they are saying clearly their desire for a "leaner force", focused on Peacekeeping/disaster response/domestic aide to power etc. Since we're getting personal, what do you feel a "leaner force" equates to? Increased fitness standards perhaps? Quote
waldo Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 "Leaner" combined with a review of current capabilities that would no longer be needed, equates to a smaller force. your interpretation is self-serving... you've already presumed on the review outcome. Clearly, the current procurement system is broken... clearly, funding is always limited/constrained by other priorities... which ever party has been in government. You're forever in this "force projection" mindset, yet you have no sense of fiscal reality in presuming to pay for "your toys". I trust the review would start with... what position does Canada want/need to play in the 'global community'. Perhaps you fear the outcome of such a starting point - yes? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 your interpretation is self-serving... you've already presumed on the review outcome. Clearly, the current procurement system is broken... clearly, funding is always limited/constrained by other priorities... which ever party has been in government. You're forever in this "force projection" mindset, yet you have no sense of fiscal reality in presuming to pay for "your toys". I trust the review would start with... what position does Canada want/need to play in the 'global community'. Perhaps you fear the outcome of such a starting point - yes? I fully agree, as I said above, if a Liberal Government determines no need for a modern combat capability for the Canadian Forces, gutting said current and future force structure is very prudent.......no quibble there. Quote
Smallc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Nothing, if the Liberals plan to focus the Canadian military onto UN Peacekeeping, disaster response and domestic defense/policing etc, a review will clearly find we can cut all sorts of capabilities within the current force structure that would no longer be needed for its new stated purpose.........Setting the road map to dismantle the Forces first is very prudent. What if the Liberal plan is to simply kill babies? What else should we make up? Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 What if the Liberal plan is to simply kill babies? What else should we make up? What is being made up? I'm repeating (the cited) Liberal platform. Quote
Smallc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 What is being made up? I'm repeating (the cited) Liberal platform. And then proceeded to presume it's outcome. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 And then proceeded to presume it's outcome. Sure, based on its stated intent.......you presume the Liberal's platform is not truthful? Quote
Smallc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Sure, based on its stated intent.......you presume the Liberal's platform is not truthful? Youre taking the intent to its extreme, hoping to gain points. It isn't working. Quote
Derek 2.0 Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 Youre taking the intent to its extreme, hoping to gain points. It isn't working. No, I'm countering your assertion that the RCN (and the Forces as a whole) would "benefit" from a Liberal Government. Quote
Smallc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 No, I'm countering your assertion that the RCN (and the Forces as a whole) would "benefit" from a Liberal Government.They haven't benefitted from the Conserative one yet. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 They haven't benefitted from the Conservdtivr one yet. And that's the real irony. For all the Tories' love of trumpeting the military, they have precious little to show for it. Quote
Smallc Posted October 8, 2015 Report Posted October 8, 2015 And that's the real irony. For all the Tories' love of trumpeting the military, they have precious little to show for it. When I post on my phone it's like I'm drunk. Quote
Army Guy Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 And that's the real irony. For all the Tories' love of trumpeting the military, they have precious little to show for it. They have delivered more than any other party.... CF-18 Upgrade New C-130J New C-17 plus additional contract for more. UAV's A firm plan on the F-35 AOP's Firm contract for temporary AOR ship. Frigate program New Sub update's and new Sub repair facility in BC. Contract for new AOR's M777 towed Arty LAV 6.0 upgrades New and used Leo II MBT's M113 upgrades TLAV Iltis replacement ( G-wagon) HSVW TAPV C-7 upgrades New 40 mm auto grenade launcher sys New HLVW replacement. and many more such as NVG goggles, GPS, etc etc.... What has the previous liberals gave us to date.....a decade of darkness.....what has the new liberal government promised todate.....to cancel the F-35 program, and purchase anything but F-35, and use the money saved and dump it into the navy ship building program....... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Smallc Posted October 17, 2015 Report Posted October 17, 2015 They returned spending to Paul Martin levels. They've done very little since 2011. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.