Shipbuilding contracts

[Smallc]

The Kingfish made the 280s obsolete, not Harper

I don't blame Harper (or Chretien or Martin) for their obsolescence, but rather the fact that they haven't been replaced.

[Derek 2.0]

At this point, why is the Athabaskan even in service? It's simply taking up resources that are better used in other places. I hope she is retired soon enough.

Place holder.....she should have went with her sisters (over a decade ago) last year.

[Derek 2.0]

I don't blame Harper (or Chretien or Martin) for their obsolescence, but rather the fact that they haven't been replaced.

At what point can we start blaming Trudeau for not replacing her (or her sisters)?

[Smallc]

At what point can we start blaming Trudeau for not replacing her (or her sisters)?

Give it a couple of years (there won't be replacements by then, but we should know by then if he's following through on his commitment to the navy - the rumours are he will ensure 6 AOPS and 3 AORs - we'll have signals of that by then).

[Smallc]

Place holder.....she should have went with her sisters (over a decade ago) last year.

I would have thought with the installation of rudimentary command and control systems on four of the 330s, she'd be gone by now. They're probably waiting until the entire refit process is complete.

[Derek 2.0]

I would have thought with the installation of rudimentary command and control systems on four of the 330s, she'd be gone by now. They're probably waiting until the entire refit process is complete.

I would assume that to be correct.

[Derek 2.0]

Give it a couple of years (there won't be replacements by then, but we should know by then if he's following through on his commitment to the navy - the rumours are he will ensure 6 AOPS and 3 AORs - we'll have signals of that by then).

A couple years? If Trudeau was serious about rebuilding capabilities in the RCN, he would direct the MND to make a run at a couple of the soon to be retired (early) Ticonderoga cruisers the USN is likely to lay-up as a interim option.......some of which are of the same vintage as our current frigates.

I'll give him until Spring 2016, the start of the US Government's next fiscal year, to put forth a proposal for an interim option........if he doesn't, now that he has the big-boy pants on, he's not serious about restoring the RCN.

[Smallc]

A couple years? If Trudeau was serious about rebuilding capabilities in the RCN, he would direct the MND to make a run at a couple of the soon to be retired (early) Ticonderoga cruisers the USN is likely to lay-up as a interim option.......some of which are of the same vintage as our current frigates.

I would go for that, but don't expect it to happen. It wouldn't have happened under Harper either though so, I can't really fault him for it.

[Derek 2.0]

I would go for that, but don't expect it to happen. It wouldn't have happened under Harper either though so, I can't really fault him for it.

And how do you know that? The RCN explored leasing two of the Supply class, there is no reason (aside from political will) the USN wouldn't sell/lease them to us for a song........they practically give away frigates (and the old Kidd class), often only charging for one last refit in American yards.......there is no reason, if Prime Minister Trudeau was serious about rebuilding the RCN, we couldn't seek the purchase of 1-2 of the soon to be 7 laid-up cruisers.....the Americans would likely give them away, as it will cost the USN money to deactivate and store them, likewise, some within the congress are attempting to force the USN to keep them, when the USN would rather retire them early and purchase more flight III Burkes......

.....hell, they might even sell us cheap a flight I Burke, they offered a cheap lease to the RAN over a decade ago....

As I said, I'll give Trudeau until Spring of next year to get settled, and the start of the next US Government budget circus, for him to follow through on his pledge to invest in the RCN.........don't get me wrong, I'm not unreasonable, I won't expect the cruisers to enter service for 12-18 months after a deal is signed (crews would need a period to transition of course), but if he doesn't seek an interim option (one that would be cheap and easy), then he is not serious about fixing the navy........simple as that.

[Smallc]

The Liberals have suspended the interim supply ship deal. In order to play politics, the government of the day had ignored competition from Irving and Seaspab. Irvin apparently had a lower prices option. The deal was also delayed at the behest of buerocrats inside the NSPS office, who feel the deal threatens the agreement signed with Seaspan. They have now delayed any decision into the new year, according to CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/topstories/davie-supply-ship-liberals-halt-1.3327039

I'm in favour of building an interim ship. If there were other offers on the table, they should have been considered. The Liberals owe just as much to the Atlantic provinces as too Quebec and can't ignore letters from Itving alleging misdeeds by the Conservatives in this case.

[Derek 2.0]

The Liberals have suspended the interim supply ship deal. In order to play politics, the government of the day had ignored competition from Irving and Seaspab. Irvin apparently had a lower prices option. The deal was also delayed at the behest of buerocrats inside the NSPS office, who feel the deal threatens the agreement signed with Seaspan. They have now delayed any decision into the new year, according to CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/topstories/davie-supply-ship-liberals-halt-1.3327039

I'm in favour of building an interim ship. If there were other offers on the table, they should have been considered. The Liberals owe just as much to the Atlantic provinces as too Quebec and can't ignore letters from Itving alleging misdeeds by the Conservatives in this case.

So it's the Conservatives fault that the Liberals have "delayed" the interim AOR? That's quite the dance

And to think, I was going to give the Liberal Government 6 months until they started screwing with the RCN......gotta feel for Davie, left holding the bag on the MV Asterix...........

[Smallc]

So it's the Conservatives fault that the Liberals have "delayed" the interim AOR? That's quite the dance

I blame the Liberals for delaying. I blame the Conservatives for shady dealings.

Also, the Conservatives could have signed a contract, again - didn't.

[Smallc]

Short list for CSC RFQ

For the Combat Systems Integrator, the pre-qualified firms are:

Atlas Elektronik GmbH

DCNS SA

Lockheed Martin Canada [bets?]

Saab Australia Pty Ltd.

Selex ES S.p.A.

Thales Nederland B.V.

ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems GmbH

For the Warship Designer, the pre-qualified firms are:

Alion-JJMA Corp.[uS]

BAE Systems Surface Ships Limited [uK]

DCNS SA [France]

Fincantieri S.p.A. Naval Vessels Business Unit [italy]

Navantia SA [spain]

Odense Maritime Technology [Denmark]

ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems GmbH [Germany]

https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/mark-collins-rcns-canadian-surface-combatant-will-be-foreign-design/

[Derek 2.0]

I blame the Liberals for delaying. I blame the Conservatives for shady dealings.

Also, the Conservatives could have signed a contract, again - didn't.

What "shady dealings"? Are you alleging impropriety on the part of the previous Government and/or Davie? If you are, you had better provide proof or retract the baseless claim prior to libeling the two parties.

The Conservatives signed the letter of intent, with the contract to be signed by the Government after the election.......nothing "shady" about that, in the interim, Davie has a container vessels tied up...and the navy will be further delayed an interim AOR. You can't blame Harper for the Liberal Government punting the program (a classic Liberal move on defense).

Funny enough, with the expected cost of the refugees into the billions, including millions to be spent (from DND's budget) housing them on bases once they arrive, its no surprise something else had to be cut........and you're suggesting the Liberals have billions put aside for fighters and frigates, but clearly not ~700 million for a critical need for the RCN.

[Derek 2.0]

Short list for CSC RFQ

No different than the list released last year.........your point? If they Liberals aren't going to fund an interim AOR, new frigates are a pipe dream.

[Smallc]

No different than the list released last year.........your point? If they Liberals aren't going to fund an interim AOR, new frigates are a pipe dream.

no one is buying frigates during this mandate. What will be done is to get the project to a final selection.

[Smallc]

The Conservatives signed the letter of intent, with the contract to be signed by the Government after the election.......nothing "shady" about that, in the interim, Davie has a container vessels tied up...and the navy will be further delayed an interim AOR.

If I had to guess, there will be no interim AOR. Apparently, the Conservatives left us with a semi structural deficit. The Asterix was not part of the NSPS. The Liberals have stated they are fully committed to the NSPS.

[Derek 2.0]

no one is buying frigates during this mandate. What will be done is to get the project to a final selection.

And nobody is currently buying AORs, nor currently leasing an interim AOR.........Of course, this could all be resolved, if as you suggested, the Trudeau Government was keen on retaining a "blue-water navy"........as it stands, their first major decision has torpedoed the RCN.

[Derek 2.0]

If I had to guess, there will be no interim AOR. Apparently, the Conservatives left us with a semi structural deficit. The Asterix was not part of the NSPS. The Liberals have stated they are fully committed to the NSPS.

Nobody ever suggested it was a part of the NSPS, but an interim solution to the RCN's AOR shortfall, caused by two accidents resulting in the retirement of our previous vessels, a key requirement for a "blue-water" navy............a navy you suggested the Liberal are committed to......a funny way to confirm a commitment..........

[Smallc]

Nobody ever suggested it was a part of the NSPS, but an interim solution to the RCN's AOR shortfall, caused by two accidents resulting in the retirement of our previous vessels, a key requirement for a "blue-water" navy............a navy you suggested the Liberal are committed to......a funny way to confirm a commitment..........

Funny you defended all this stuff when the Conservatives were in power.

[Derek 2.0]

Funny you defended all this stuff when the Conservatives were in power.

Why wouldn't I defend the previous Government's decision to provide an interim AOR?

None the less, this is a Liberal decision, that runs counter to their promise to support the RCN.......no amount of Harper (or Davie) bashing can change that.

[Smallc]

The government committed to new ships as part of the NSPS. The interim option may be sacrificed as a result.

[SpankyMcFarland]

With the benefit of hindsight, was it wise to build these ships in Canada?

Edited November 20, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland

[bush_cheney2004]

For those of us keeping score at home, just when did Canada build and commission its last ship...in a Canadian shipyard ?

Edited November 20, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[Smallc]

With the benefit of hindsight, was it wise to build these ships in Canada?

It was not. We could have had far more ship for far less.