wyly Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 LOL My son and I are in agreement that the “two timing Ho” had it coming………..What’s funny is that the wife use to make fun of us watching “zombie crap” and is now addicted to the show. my wife was glad the "ho" got hers, she was annoying... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Michael Hardner Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 nope, adults need cheap thrills too...we're no different than the romans that filled the coloseeum... violence, gratuitous nudity, copious amounts of sex or political backstabbing is what it takes to keep my attention, anything else is just Disney family(kiddie) entertainment... Sometimes they do. Just like sometimes you need sugar in your diet. Now measure the amount of sugar in the North American died, and the number of cheap thrills too. Vegetables are boring too, you know. a grown up show that's being cancelled, evidently not good enough to attract and keep an adult audience ... It's a shame. I was happy that cable started making grown up shows, but it seems that the heydey will soon be behind us as everybody heads downmarket for the biggest crowds, ie. the murders that are the most shocking, that spray the highest volume of bodily fluids and bone fragments around, and the most unnecessary and disinterested soft lens sex scenes that you can fit into the script. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
wyly Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 Sometimes they do. Just like sometimes you need sugar in your diet. Now measure the amount of sugar in the North American died, and the number of cheap thrills too. Vegetables are boring too, you know. It's a shame. I was happy that cable started making grown up shows, but it seems that the heydey will soon be behind us as everybody heads downmarket for the biggest crowds, ie. the murders that are the most shocking, that spray the highest volume of bodily fluids and bone fragments around, and the most unnecessary and disinterested soft lens sex scenes that you can fit into the script. well it could a temporary trend we've been fed such insipid pap for so long we're gone to the opposite extreme and need our more basic cravings satisfied before we find a more moderate middle ground...I rarely watch network dramas anymore they just don't reflect reality, no cursing, no sex, no nudity, clean violence...thats disneyland, fantasy... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Michael Hardner Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 well it could a temporary trend we've been fed such insipid pap ... I don't find the gratuity in these shows any less insipid, right now. With The Sopranos, there was an arc to the stories and a realism to it. The current crop of shows are common comic books - the fact that they're not shy about blood or swearing doesn't make them sophisticated IMO. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
wyly Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 zombies may not seem to be serious entertainment but it may reflect reality...there are serious uni classes given on surviving zombie takeovers...they're not serious about zombies but about societal breakdown in an apocalyptic world from whatever cause, meteor strike, nuclear war, pandemic... and the zombie world of walking dead is a pandemic...so take out the zombie factor and replace it infectious disease carriers and you have the same show, it's just easier to watch soulless non-human zombies being slaughtered than infected humans... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bleeding heart Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) Watching cardboard cutout characters covered in zombie goo loses interest after awhile, doesn't it ? Why not watch a grown up show ? One of the reasons people enjoy horror is that it remains one of the better vehicles for exploring cultural and political subtext. Often, the subtext is unconscious, but it's always there. So if you think of George Romero's zombie franchise (to which the spate of zombie movies, and certainly The Walking Dead, owes practically everything), issues of class and capitalism are viciously satirized (the obvious vampire connection aside, what else are zombie films about than the logical end of rampant consumerism?). Even the crappy horror puts social and political ideas front and centre in the way that most entertainment does not...thanks precisely to its lack of subtlety, but also to the artistic usefulness of placing characters in extreme situations, so that the workaday and trivial become more obviously just that. (Compare to most romantic comedies, for example.) I have had some problems with the Walking Dead--especially the numbing second season, in which the essential banality of most of the characters become too obvious to ignore. But it has a lot going for it, in my opinion, especially in these first episodes of this season. Issues of political leadership (read: dictatorships) are becoming clear, and I think we're witnessing the breaking of the traditional family writ small here, as well. Also, honestly, the zombies are really cool! Edited November 5, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
wyly Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 I have had some problems with the Walking Dead--especially the numbing second season, in which the essential banality of most of the characters become too obvious to ignore. but they're trying to follow the plot of the comic book series.... in reality heroes get killed, good people die bad guys thrive... in an hour long episode where there isn't much time to flesh out one character of many, a character that's scheduled to die in only a few episodes... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bleeding heart Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 but they're trying to follow the plot of the comic book series.... in reality heroes get killed, good people die bad guys thrive... in an hour long episode where there isn't much time to flesh out one character of many, a character that's scheduled to die in only a few episodes... That said, I've never heard a single person--not one!--who didn't express deep disappointment about season 2. There's no justifying such dullness. If I want boring horror. I'll watch Paranormal Activity. However, the new season is really good so far, so I'm happy! Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
wyly Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 That said, I've never heard a single person--not one!--who didn't express deep disappointment about season 2. There's no justifying such dullness. If I want boring horror. I'll watch Paranormal Activity. However, the new season is really good so far, so I'm happy! season two was a lot of touchy feely character development IMO which is why I (and I suspect many others) didn't care for it...we want death and destruction and a fast advancing plot...for something more cerebral I watch Boardwalk empire, I actually care about character development there... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bleeding heart Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) season two was a lot of touchy feely character development IMO which is why I (and I suspect many others) didn't care for it...we want death and destruction and a fast advancing plot...for something more cerebral I watch Boardwalk empire, I actually care about character development there... I agree...but I think if the character development had been good, more of us would have appreciated it. That is, I don't think it's the fact of it, so much as that it wasn't especially good. And yeah, I think Boardwalk Empire is fantastic. Edited November 5, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Guest Derek L Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 zombies may not seem to be serious entertainment but it may reflect reality...there are serious uni classes given on surviving zombie takeovers...they're not serious about zombies but about societal breakdown in an apocalyptic world from whatever cause, meteor strike, nuclear war, pandemic... and the zombie world of walking dead is a pandemic...so take out the zombie factor and replace it infectious disease carriers and you have the same show, it's just easier to watch soulless non-human zombies being slaughtered than infected humans... I agree 100%………..I think for most, the term “zombie” is codeword for “other people”……..I think it’s a natural response by society when facing uncertainty………Look at the last big “post apocalyptic” fad in the late 70s and early 80s………….Instead of zombies, we had survivors from a nuclear war………The more things change……… Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) I agree 100%………..I think for most, the term “zombie” is codeword for “other people”……..I think it’s a natural response by society when facing uncertainty………Look at the last big “post apocalyptic” fad in the late 70s and early 80s………….Instead of zombies, we had survivors from a nuclear war………The more things change……… The whole 'Zombie thing' has enjoyed a resurgence thanks mostly to the arrival of 'Resident Evil' on the PlayStation II back in '96. Those first REs...based on the Japanese 'Bio-hazard' series...still creeps me out to this day. 'Silent Hill' was another early PSII offering that translated to high levels of undead creepiness. 'Survival Horror' is the genre's name. In both Silent Hill and RE, you were lucky to have ammo for your gun. If you had a gun... Edited November 5, 2012 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Derek L Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 The whole 'Zombie thing' has enjoyed a resurgence thanks mostly to the arrival of 'Resident Evil' on the PlayStation II back in '96. Those first REs...based on the Japanese 'Bio-hazard' series...still creeps me out to this day. 'Silent Hill' was another early PSII offering that translated to high levels of undead creepiness. 'Survival Horror' is the genre's name. In both Silent Hill and RE, you were lucky to have ammo for your gun. If you had a gun... Well I'm not much into video games, but I'm not that worried about having ammo for my guns Quote
Michael Hardner Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 One of the reasons people enjoy horror is that it remains one of the better vehicles for exploring cultural and political subtext. Often, the subtext is unconscious, but it's always there. Sure, sure. And you can put that into pretty much any art too ... So if you think of George Romero's zombie franchise (to which the spate of zombie movies, and certainly The Walking Dead, owes practically everything), issues of class and capitalism are viciously satirized (the obvious vampire connection aside, what else are zombie films about than the logical end of rampant consumerism?). Even the crappy horror ... There's very little in WD to commend it in that way, though. I don't think I have seen much. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
bleeding heart Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 Sure, sure. And you can put that into pretty much any art too ... Yes, but I think it's more often prevalent in horror (again: rarely from the filmmakers' particular artistic prescience, but rather as an element of the genre itself). Outside of explicitly political film (say, Election, or either version of The Manchurian Candidate) horror films remain (on an obvious, surface level, I mean) closest to the political and cultural fears and contentious issues....simply because fear is exactly what they are dealing with. So much has been made among film-wonks, and probably accurately, that the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a direct result of the Vietnam War. The Exorcist is about, among other things, the "generation gap." These films are much more than these matters, of course, but the matters are components. The lesser horror films, even the bad ones, do something similar. The so-called "torture-porn" sub-genre has as its genesis (at least arguably) Abu Ghraib. I Spit on your Grave is unthinkable without the seventies' women's movement (whether the film is feminist or backlash-reactionary depends on your perspective, I think....either way, it's clearly there). Of course you're right, that we could name a thousand non-horror films and make many of the same points. No question about it. I only mean that with horror films, the contemporary currents of large-scale fears and anxieties rise directly to the surface, for better or worse. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
DogOnPorch Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 Well I'm not much into video games, but I'm not that worried about having ammo for my guns Heh...no comment. These were not your run of the mill shoot 'em ups. There were no points involved. No extra lives. Just you and a crazy environment. These are also some of the first 3D modeled games...though the first REs were actually clever 2D mimics. So all around, they were pretty darn amazing at the time. Still are on some levels. Very immersive. Either way, they spawned their own set of movies...still going. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bleeding heart Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 Either way, they spawned their own set of movies...still going. If you mean Silent Hill, i haven't seen it. If you mean Resident Evil, then yeah...awful pieces of film trash. Epically bad. Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
DogOnPorch Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) If you mean Silent Hill, i haven't seen it. If you mean Resident Evil, then yeah...awful pieces of film trash. Epically bad. They have not lived up to the old video games...either one. But, then it's one of those things...it's hard to translate the feeling involved in YOU moving around trying to stay alive and interacting with the environment and a movie where all that is preplanned. Edited November 5, 2012 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bleeding heart Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 (edited) They have not lived up to the old video games...either one. But, then it's one of those things...it's hard to translate the feeling involved in YOU moving around trying to stay alive and interacting with the environment and a movie where all that is preplanned. I think you're right. I'm searching my memory for any game-induced movie that's memorable. There might be one or two, I'm not sure. Edited November 5, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
DogOnPorch Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 I think you're right. I'm searching my memory for any game-induced movie that's memorable. There might be one or two, I'm not sure. The whole concept of traditional (adventure) movies is being heavily challenged by the newer video games/sims. However, the move away from designing FOR powerful desktops and towards consoles like the X Box has dumbed down the latest batch of technical marvels. Skyrim being a good example...not as good as the two before it...Oblivion and Morrowind...by popular consensus. Pretty...yes...but lacking in depth. I posted a vid of what Morrowind (a classic) looks like after modders have had a few years to play with it. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Derek L Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 Heh...no comment. These were not your run of the mill shoot 'em ups. There were no points involved. No extra lives. Just you and a crazy environment. These are also some of the first 3D modeled games...though the first REs were actually clever 2D mimics. So all around, they were pretty darn amazing at the time. Still are on some levels. Very immersive. Either way, they spawned their own set of movies...still going. I’m not against them in principle……..don’t get me wrong, about three computers ago it was not impossible that the odd night might have been wasted playing SimCity or attempting to figure out the later incarnations of Harpoon……..The wife has spent a fortune playing the “free” FB games…..And our son has an x-box that he plays over the net with friends and family (My younger brother) on rainy days……..I’ll admit that the he has one shooting game he plays online (Battlefield?) with his friends (and my younger brother) that I’ll sit and watch from time to time that can be “intense”………I’ve tried it, but can’t quite get the hand/eye/controller thing down, and the allure of shooting a computer generated SKS, Remington 700/870 and a Beretta 9mm isn’t quite there when you have the real thing in the room next to you……. Maybe it’s just me, fore I’ve been trying for years to get the wife to Farmville our backyard Quote
DogOnPorch Posted November 5, 2012 Report Posted November 5, 2012 I was part of an online squadron for years. All military types...I was the token Canadian. Was great fun. Mostly WW2 Pacific Navy...but we went to all the theaters of WW2 at times. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Derek L Posted November 6, 2012 Report Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) I was part of an online squadron for years. All military types...I was the token Canadian. Was great fun. Mostly WW2 Pacific Navy...but we went to all the theaters of WW2 at times. In his game, he tried to get me to “fly” a USMC Venom……..I have over 400 hours in real UH-1N/H/210s……..Couldn’t even get the Venom off the ground.....At that point, I decided to leave it to the "experts" Edited November 6, 2012 by Derek L Quote
wyly Posted November 6, 2012 Report Posted November 6, 2012 I think you're right. I'm searching my memory for any game-induced movie that's memorable. There might be one or two, I'm not sure. I heard rumors of a Halo movie but other than that I don't know of any... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted November 6, 2012 Report Posted November 6, 2012 In his game, he tried to get me to “fly” a USMC Venom……..I have over 400 hours in real UH-1N/H/210s……..Couldn’t even get the Venom off the ground.....At that point, I decided to leave it to the "experts" I played the damn busters with the skipping bombs simulation years ago, I sucked and gave up...I never managed to ever blow up the damn... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
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