Should Canada spend 28 Million ....

[Topaz]

Should Canada spend 28 Million on the War of 1812 bicentennial? Canada wasn't Canada when the war was fought and Canadians didn't become Canadians until 1947, so maybe the British should celebrate instead. Does anyone know how this money is going to be spent? Should the money be spent on something else? http://powerplayblog.ctv.ca/post/The-Last-Word-2428-million-budget-for-the-War-of-1812-bicentennial.aspx

[William Ashley]

Should Canada spend 28 Million on the War of 1812 bicentennial? Canada wasn't Canada when the war was fought and Canadians didn't become Canadians until 1947, so maybe the British should celebrate instead. Does anyone know how this money is going to be spent? Should the money be spent on something else? http://powerplayblog.ctv.ca/post/The-Last-Word-2428-million-budget-for-the-War-of-1812-bicentennial.aspx

The government shouldn't spend general tax revenue it should sell tickets and take donations for events they want to run. Spending while in a trillion dollar debt is completely reckless. Sell the tickets as a tax deduction if so but public support should equate the expenditure. The only reason I suggest a deduction is that every tax payer should be rebated 1 or 2 dollars over this nonsense deficit spending. First off they shouldn't be taxing people for this crap was it in the budget to begin with? Second they shouldn't be deficit spending for this crap. Third they should be rebating the general tax payer if they are. Finally they should be recouping this loss through people who actually support it and watch it. It could be profitable but do we celebrate wwii or korea by simulating civil defence operations what avout the various invasions of native lands? This is utter nonsense. To be spending even a fraction of a pence for this, even if it is fun, there is no money. Let the bond payers pay for it, they will be anyway.

It amounts to little more than military propaganda.

There are places like the fort at kingston niagra or york that run year round. These sorts of events should be run by those organizations but should be funded from the users of those organizations.

it is not the role of the federal government to spend money extravagantly on historical reinactment,,,it didn;t even pay for it then.. ifficers paid fr their posts not the other way around. If we are going to reinact it we shoukd start with the forces budget reinacted.

If Canadians won't fund killing american invaders out of their own pockets why even bother, where is the kindeed spirit?

And what fun is shooting a bunch of dummy targets, as who would want to play the american, it is doomed to failure.

If we can occupy and bur the whitehouse it just isn't representstive.

28 million to burn the whitehouse, ok. 28 million to shoot at people on the thames and southern ontario and montreal, no.

Edited October 16, 2011 by William Ashley

[olp1fan]

No Canada shouldn't, but this is Harper and he seems to be all about the military right now other than screwing veterans

[Smallc]

Should Canada spend 28 Million on the War of 1812 bicentennial? Canada wasn't Canada

Canadian history doesn't start in 1867...it doesn't even start in North America.

[Battletoads]

I question the point of memorializing 1800s British history... Not that I don't appreciate the American's having their capital burnt to the ground.

[charter.rights]

Yes they should spend it.

Canadians - children and adults alike - are in bad need of an education on our history. A celebration of how Canada came into being including the contributions made by Aboriginal people and the Loyalists, should be part of the curriculum in high school.

The added bonus to putting up money is that this is a stimulus program. While museums, community groups and reinactment groups will receive funding for specific events, the spin offs will create hundreds of millions in local spending in restaurants, fuel, memorabilia and other tourist money. It is likely to bring many foreigners into otherwise low tourist areas.

What most people don't realize is that while the legal creation of Canada may not have begun until 1867, real Canadians existed well back into the 18th century. We had settlers who moved into the wilderness, who lived and worked hand in hand with the native people here learning their ways and often trading with them for goods. All that changed with the Family Compact Movement, who were a group of elite Victorians who attempted to erase history, prohibit contact with Aboriginal people, create laws that stripped settlers and Aboriginal people of their land rights, and generally corrupted government to their own agenda of earning gross profit from the resources. Historians believe the movement disbanded before Confederation but it isn't difficult to see how they were simply absorbed into Canadian politics. The Victorians became the Tories and Sire John A. MacDonald was one of the most corrupt of them all using bribery, murder and abuse of power to advance his agenda.

If reconciliation with Aboriginal people is going to take place, we all need to learn and understand the actual history of Canada - and not just some grade 6 text put out by poor researchers. We need to understand that Aboriginal people put as much into the development of this country as any British, French or immigrant did. That their contributions for every war Canada was involved in (and some Canada was not involved in) equalled or outweighed the involvement of other Canadian volunteers. We need to understand that the moneys we owe First Nations - moneys that we hold in trust - come from that history, from their involvement in the war of 1812, to treaties to resource revenues that the Crown convinced them should stay with us for their perpetual care. The War of 1812 was about protecting their land as it was ours, and regardless if we consider 1867 to be our beginning, our roots go back over 3 centuries.

So yes the War of 1812 should be celebrated at the expense of government. Only this time make sure some MP from Bracebridge doesn't get a gazebo or other useless diversion of funds skimmed off the top. Although that would be consistent with the history of the Tories.......

Edited October 16, 2011 by charter.rights

[Shwa]

Should Canada spend 28 Million on the War of 1812 bicentennial? Canada wasn't Canada when the war was fought and Canadians didn't become Canadians until 1947, so maybe the British should celebrate instead. Does anyone know how this money is going to be spent? Should the money be spent on something else?

Seriously Topaz, you need to learn a little bit more about your country.

"Canada" Etymology - Wikipedia

Cartier later used the word Canada to refer not only to that particular village, but also the entire area subject to Donnacona (the chief at Stadacona); by 1545, European books and maps had begun referring to this region as Canada.

So yeah, Canada was Canada when the War of 1812 was fought and yeah Canadians fought in it. I can see that some of the 28 million being spent might even be worth for folks like you.

[Tilter]

Should Canada spend 28 Million on the War of 1812 bicentennial? Canada wasn't Canada when the war was fought and Canadians didn't become Canadians until 1947, so maybe the British should celebrate instead. Does anyone know how this money is going to be spent? Should the money be spent on something else? http://powerplayblog.ctv.ca/post/The-Last-Word-2428-million-budget-for-the-War-of-1812-bicentennial.aspx

No. People can come to Hamilton to see a museum devoted to the 1812 war and like all that is British--- not all that interesting.

Let's dwell on the future with the US, not the past.

[Tilter]

Seriously Topaz, you need to learn a little bit more about your country.

"Canada" Etymology - Wikipedia

So yeah, Canada was Canada when the War of 1812 was fought and yeah Canadians fought in it. I can see that some of the 28 million being spent might even be worth for folks like you.

I guess Canada was Canada in 01 AD --- it was just called something else.

[Shwa]

I guess Canada was Canada in 01 AD --- it was just called something else.

Was it? That is, are you stating this as fact? Because if you are, it tells us a lot about you.

[Guest American Woman]

I question the point of memorializing 1800s British history... Not that I don't appreciate the American's having their capital burnt to the ground.

Awwwwww. We love you, too. And as such, we "appreciate" all harm that's come to Canada, too.

-------------------------------------------

Gotta love this:

If there's one thing Americans do better than almost anyone else, it's the glorification of their war history.

Visit the Alamo, Custer's Last Stand, Gettysburg or Pearl Harbor and you'll see battleground America preserved to rapturous perfection.

So for Prime Minister Stephen Harper to seize on celebrating Canadian history is a noble cause.

'If the Americans do it, it's gotta be a noble cause - so let's celebrate fighting the Americans and thank God we didn't end up part of them.'

Ohhhhh. The irony.

Edited October 16, 2011 by American Woman

[g_bambino]

Should Canada spend 28 Million on the War of 1812 bicentennial?

Yes.

Canada wasn't Canada when the war was fought and Canadians didn't become Canadians until 1947, so maybe the British should celebrate instead.

And that's precicely why this anniversary needs to be played up: Canadians have a poor understanding of the history of their own country and (perhaps because) too many succumb to this wimpy, cringing, anti-British sentiment. The above question was never asked when it was the 400th anniversary of the founding of Quebec that was being marked; nobody said the French government should be paying for the celebration of an historical event that was part only of France's past.

The War of 1812 was technically a war between the UK and the US, but had the British, Aboriginals, and Canadians (they did exist at the time; national identity is not solely defined by citizenship law) either not fought against or lost to the American invasion, this country wouldn't exist. Such a decisive event is of huge importance to the understanding of how this nation came to be what it is. And if educators are not going to have us know this country's story, then let the federal government use this milestone as a way to familiarise Canadians with the details of their own nation.

[Argus]

Should Canada spend 28 Million on the War of 1812 bicentennial? Canada wasn't Canada when the war was fought and Canadians didn't become Canadians until 1947, so maybe the British should celebrate instead. Does anyone know how this money is going to be spent? Should the money be spent on something else? http://powerplayblog.ctv.ca/post/The-Last-Word-2428-million-budget-for-the-War-of-1812-bicentennial.aspx

One of the problems this society has is it's been bringing in tons of immigrants at the same time as history has basically been dropped from most school curriculums. This means many Canadians, particularly younger and newer ones have no sense of shared history or values on which to build a common culture and terms of reference from. Canadians need to learn more about this country and how it came to be. Did anyone watch the CBC docudrama on Jonn A Macdonald last month? It was quite interesting, and enlightening. I thought it was kind of funny to see, as the film suggests, that MacDonald actually arranged to have Queen Victoria 'select' Ottawa as the capital in order to short circuit Liberal opposition, and that the government briefly fell over the choice.

[capricorn]

This is money well spent. As others have said Canadians need to know more about this country's history and the events that shaped our future.

PBS produced a documentary on the War of 1812 which recently aired. For those interested, here's a preview.

http://video.pbs.org/video/17851834/

Here's the full doc.

http://www.pbs.org/wned/war-of-1812/the-film/watch-film-and-bonus-features/

[scribblet]

Agreed..

[Guest American Woman]

PBS produced a documentary on the War of 1812 which recently aired.

My Mom watched that - said it was really good.

American history teaches that the War of 1812 was against the British; the soldiers who burned down the White House were of British Citizenship.

[Shady]

How much does it cost each year to broadcast Little Mosque On The Prarie? Canada's infomerical for Islam. How about we stop subsidizing that kind of crap, and other similar unwatched television on CBC. We could make up the $28 million in no time.

[capricorn]

My Mom watched that - said it was really good.

It's excellent. I watched it once and will do a second time. It's lengthy - 2 hours - so I watched it in 30 minute intervals.

American history teaches that the War of 1812 was against the British; the soldiers who burned down the White House were of British Citizenship.

What's interesting is that when the war was declared, the British were heavily involved fighting Napoleon's army in Europe. The British forces engaged in the 1812 conflict relied on Canadians and Natives to fight alongside them. The documentary makes the following conclusion. Neither side won since no borders were affected as a result. The Natives were the losers because the peace agreement between Britain and the US, as constructed, killed their quest of establishing a Native land straddling the Canada US border.

[g_bambino]

The documentary makes the following conclusion. Neither side won since no borders were affected as a result.

Successfully fending off a hostile takeover seems a pretty decisive victory.

[capricorn]

Successfully fending off a hostile takeover seems a pretty decisive victory.

By that measure, a victory for both sides then. From the documentary, the British were also trying to conquer US territory. So the same could be said that the US repelled a hostile takeover.

[g_bambino]

From the documentary, the British were also trying to conquer US territory. So the same could be said that the US repelled a hostile takeover.

Would there have been movement of British troops into the US had the US not planned and launched an invasion of Canada first?

[capricorn]

Would there have been movement of British troops into the US had the US not planned and launched an invasion of Canada first?

No. Yet at the outset, invading Canada was not the original intent of the war. As I understand, the Americans declared war against Britain mostly due to trade restrictions imposed by the British. This summary pretty well sets the scene and is described in detail in the PBS documentary.

The War of 1812 was a military conflict fought between the forces of the United States of America and those of the British Empire. The Americans declared war in 1812 for several reasons, including trade restrictions because of Britain's ongoing war with France, impressment of American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy, British support of American Indian tribes against American expansion, and over national honour after humiliations on the high seas. Tied down in Europe until 1814, the British at first used defensive strategy, repelling multiple American invasions of the provinces of Upper and Lower Canada. However, the Americans gained control over Lake Erie in 1813, seized parts of western Ontario, and destroyed the dream of an Indian confederacy and an independent Indian state in the Midwest under British sponsorship. In the Southwest General Andrew Jackson destroyed the military strength of the Creek nation at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend. With the defeat of Napoleon in 1814, the British adopted a more aggressive strategy, sending in three large invasion armies. British victory at the Battle of Bladensburg in August 1814 allowed the British to capture and burn Washington, D.C. American victories in September 1814 and January 1815 repulsed all three British invasions in New York, Baltimore and New Orleans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

[Wilber]

Canadian history doesn't start in 1867...it doesn't even start in North America.

Quite right, if we had lost the War of 1812 there would be no Canadian history, just American history.

[Wilber]

No. Yet at the outset, invading Canada was not the original intent of the war. As I understand, the Americans declared war against Britain mostly due to trade restrictions imposed by the British. This summary pretty well sets the scene and is described in detail in the PBS documentary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

Britain's poor judgment when it came to dealing with the Americans was due to their total concentration on the 20 year death struggle they were engaged in with Napoleon, not a desire for war with the US. The economic blockade of continental Europe was the single biggest weapon they had. The last thing they needed was a war on both sides of the Atlantic.

An invasion of Canada certainly was an intention of the war. The seeds of Manifest Destiny were very much alive in 1812.

The whole continent of North America appears to be destined by Divine Providence to be peopled by one nation, speaking one language, professing one general system of religious and political principles, and accustomed to one general tenor of social usages and customs. For the common happiness of them all, for their peace and prosperity, I believe it is indispensable that they should be associated in one federal Union.

John Quincy Adams, 1811

[Wilber]

My Mom watched that - said it was really good.

American history teaches that the War of 1812 was against the British; the soldiers who burned down the White House were of British Citizenship.

The burning of Washington was in part retaliation for the burning of York (Toronto). Some might say it would have been better if neither of them had been rebuilt.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Wilber