Deepr cuts = Bigger bonuses

[Moonbox]

They are already supposed to be cutting programs, now they just get paid more money for cutting more..you know as incentive

Bureaucracies are notorious for resisting cuts to their funding. It's often almost impossible. The bureaucrats, in this case, are being given an incentive to actually find savings themselves. I think it's a wonderful idea. The public service is bloated and there are so many redundant jobs there that I would LOVE to see some cuts.

why should they be paid more from our tax dollars to do their job when Tony Clement is telling the rest of us

to deal with it?

Because the 'consultants' in this case are generally the best of the best in accounting and auditing etc You can't just hand Canada's books over to Joe the Accountant and have him find savings for us. He'd be buried in paperwork for the rest of his life. You'd need a of experienced professionals. $90,000/day will end up being a tiny sum in relation to the savings they'll potentially find.

Fuckin' he can deal with what is an awakening of the Canadian populace

He will be the first throw into the lions den

I'm sure he's positively quaking at the prospect of a bunch of 'activists' wetting their beds over this.

[jacee]

Oops ... sorry olp. Didn't see your thread.

A few posts

here

Continued here in your thread now.

Edited October 11, 2011 by jacee

[fellowtraveller]

oh shit, wait, I bet you people think its smart to pay contractors 90,000 a day to give the government advice on how to do their job

we don't even need a government it looks like, just pay contractors to do it!!

Conservatives the treasonous party of Canada

I guess you are not used to how big businesses and governments operate, particularly in a unionized environment......

I'll give you a lesson, explain the contractors thing for free, just this once.....

The govt knows already what needs to be done in downsizing themselves, they have long identified programs and people to chop. The people that get paid these bonuses, the EX, ADM, DM levels, also know what to do but lack both motivation and courage.

Here is what happens: all the execs meet with the consultants to talk about 'change management'. The agenda will have many structured and some esoeric topics, but the purpose of the meeting is very simple: for management to tell the conusltant what the result desired is to be.

The consultant trundles off, makes a show of consultation with 'stakeholders', rephrases the questions and most of all repackages the decisions that management has already made long ago. The the consultant packages them beautifully and presents them to everybody as new knowledge and considered revelations. Management is delighted to discover that their unspoken conclusions are validated by a prestigious firm. Workers are dismayed to find out that the rumours are true, though they will of course get compensated.. Oh,and the execs get bonuses for their hard work. Some will also get canned as their programs and people vanish.

The axe swingeth.

Twas ever so.

[olp1fan]

I guess you are not used to how big businesses and governments operate, particularly in a unionized environment......

I'll give you a lesson, explain the contractors thing for free, just this once.....

The govt knows already what needs to be done in downsizing themselves, they have long identified programs and people to chop. The people that get paid these bonuses, the EX, ADM, DM levels, also know what to do but lack both motivation and courage.

Here is what happens: all the execs meet with the consultants to talk about 'change management'. The agenda will have many structured and some esoeric topics, but the purpose of the meeting is very simple: for management to tell the conusltant what the result desired is to be.

The consultant trundles off, makes a show of consultation with 'stakeholders', rephrases the questions and most of all repackages the decisions that management has already made long ago. The the consultant packages them beautifully and presents them to everybody as new knowledge and considered revelations. Management is delighted to discover that their unspoken conclusions are validated by a prestigious firm. Workers are dismayed to find out that the rumours are true, though they will of course get compensated.. Oh,and the execs get bonuses for their hard work. Some will also get canned as their programs and people vanish.

The axe swingeth.

Twas ever so.

if you need motivation to do your job correctly then resign

if i don't fulfill the duties of my job I get canned

its that freaking simple

[Michael Hardner]

If we know what services we're getting for the money paid, then we have the information necessary to make choices pure and simple.

This means that we can make choices to increase, maintain, decrease or remove services altogether.

Again, this should have nothing to do with left/right but with having an informed public that knows what we are doing with our resources. Of course, the Conservatives want to cut taxes - but whether or not they do that we will all benefit from the information. If we knew, for example, that certain healthcare programs would vastly improve with more funding then we could allocate resources from one area to the healthcare area.

If you think this all sound idyllic and pristine, you're probably correct - however remind yourself what tools we have today to make these decisions. The answer is - not many. We're left with political rhetoric to decide.

When Dalton McGuinty won his first election, he did so on the *image* he brandished of a kindler/gentler PM. But images are the stuff of mass media, not of an informed public. An informed public would have asked why McGuinty didn't restore Harris' welfare cuts, and indeed why the kindler/gentler man left them in place and only raised welfare rates a modest amount much later.

We need information. Once we have that, I believe that a new public will form around the information and Canada will be light years ahead of where it was.

[Michael Hardner]

if you need motivation to do your job correctly then resign

if i don't fulfill the duties of my job I get canned

its that freaking simple

It is that simple, but that's not how the world works unfortunately.

[Michael Hardner]

If we know what services we're getting for the money paid, then we have the information necessary to make choices pure and simple.

This means that we can make choices to increase, maintain, decrease or remove services altogether.

Again, this should have nothing to do with left/right but with having an informed public that knows what we are doing with our resources. Of course, the Conservatives want to cut taxes - but whether or not they do that we will all benefit from the information. If we knew, for example, that certain healthcare programs would vastly improve with more funding then we could allocate resources from one area to the healthcare area.

If you think this all sound idyllic and pristine, you're probably correct - however remind yourself what tools we have today to make these decisions. The answer is - not many. We're left with political rhetoric to decide.

When Dalton McGuinty won his first election, he did so on the *image* he brandished of a kindler/gentler PM. But images are the stuff of mass media, not of an informed public. An informed public would have asked why McGuinty didn't restore Harris' welfare cuts, and indeed why the kindler/gentler man left them in place and only raised welfare rates a modest amount much later.

We need information. Once we have that, I believe that a new public will form around the information and Canada will be light years ahead of where it was.

To add: If the Conservative government actually implements Open Government in the way that it should be implemented, I may find myself voting for them for the first time. It would be the most forward-looking step of any Canadian government in a generation.

[olp1fan]

It is that simple, but that's not how the world works unfortunately.

It is totally unfair to be paying these people with tax money and them not fulfill their duties

unless they are bribed to with incentives

I'm sorry I cannot support this way of thinking

Edited October 11, 2011 by olp1fan

[olp1fan]

To add: If the Conservative government actually implements Open Government in the way that it should be implemented, I may find myself voting for them for the first time. It would be the most forward-looking step of any Canadian government in a generation.

if you're talking about the Harper conservstives that will never happen

[wyly]

To add: If the Conservative government actually implements Open Government in the way that it should be implemented, I may find myself voting for them for the first time. It would be the most forward-looking step of any Canadian government in a generation.

open government from the conservatives?

you won't be voting conservative in my lifetime...but then I am getting older

[wyly]

It is totally unfair to be paying these people with tax money and them not fulfill their duties

unless they are bribed to with incentives

I'm sorry I cannot support this way of thinking

that happens in the private workplace as well, always has, always will...

[olp1fan]

that happens in the private workplace as well, always has, always will...

that way of thinking needs to be changed for society to improve

[Michael Hardner]

that way of thinking needs to be changed for society to improve

You're not asking for a way of thinking to be changed - you're asking for human nature to improve.

You're asking for people to do their jobs better when nobody's watching them, or when they have no incentives to do so. The fact is that you need both positive and negative reinforcement to be present to ensure a productive workplace. Some people just don't work without them being present.

[olp1fan]

You're not asking for a way of thinking to be changed - you're asking for human nature to improve.

You're asking for people to do their jobs better when nobody's watching them, or when they have no incentives to do so. The fact is that you need both positive and negative reinforcement to be present to ensure a productive workplace. Some people just don't work without them being present.

I guess so , its the unions fault for fighting to keep lazy workers employed

[guyser]

that way of thinking needs to be changed for society to improve

Your mother never gave you a quarter to clean your room ](last week) ?

Edited October 11, 2011 by guyser

[olp1fan]

Your mother never gave you a quarter to clean your room ](last week) ?

I was never given allowance

plus your argument doesn't hold

A kid is not firstly employed by his mom to already clean his room

Edited October 11, 2011 by olp1fan

[olp1fan]

guyser, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't personally attack me by insinuating I am a child

[Michael Hardner]

I guess so , its the unions fault for fighting to keep lazy workers employed

There are other factors at play here... not the least of which is the politicians running the whole show. Plus, there's the faceless dehumanizing machine that is the bureaucracy.

[capricorn]

Bureaucracies are notorious for resisting cuts to their funding. It's often almost impossible. The bureaucrats, in this case, are being given an incentive to actually find savings themselves.

Finding efficiencies means more than cutting positions. For example, finding suppliers of goods and supplies at a lower unit cost can sometimes result in saving hundreds of thousands of dollars. This exercise will stir creative thinking. Another example is service contracts for equipment.

[Topaz]

Let's not forget how Canada got to this point. The Libs. left 13 billion in a emergency fund and the Tories went through that plus another what 56 billion plus the growing interest on it and now to get themselves out of debt, Canadian workers are going to lose their jobs thanks to the managers of these dept. The Tories also have the largest government, so they hired many workers, patted themselves on the back for growing the employed, then turn around and fire them so they can also pat themselves on the back to save money? I, too, don't think managers, especially in government, should get a special bonus for doing their job.

[capricorn]

They are already supposed to be cutting programs,

Who said anything about cutting programs? But hey if along the way a program is found redundant then bonus, cut it loose. And the way things work, chances are no layoffs would happen as attrition and re-assignment can take care of most of that.

[Boges]

I guess so , its the unions fault for fighting to keep lazy workers employed

Whoa!!! I thought you were Left of Black Dog until you posted that.

[capricorn]

The fact is that you need both positive and negative reinforcement to be present to ensure a productive workplace. Some people just don't work without them being present.

Ah, I recognize here a person educated in business administration.

[Shwa]

I guess you are not used to how big businesses and governments operate, particularly in a unionized environment......

I'll give you a lesson, explain the contractors thing for free, just this once.....

The govt knows already what needs to be done in downsizing themselves, they have long identified programs and people to chop. The people that get paid these bonuses, the EX, ADM, DM levels, also know what to do but lack both motivation and courage.

Here is what happens: all the execs meet with the consultants to talk about 'change management'. The agenda will have many structured and some esoeric topics, but the purpose of the meeting is very simple: for management to tell the conusltant what the result desired is to be.

The consultant trundles off, makes a show of consultation with 'stakeholders', rephrases the questions and most of all repackages the decisions that management has already made long ago. The the consultant packages them beautifully and presents them to everybody as new knowledge and considered revelations. Management is delighted to discover that their unspoken conclusions are validated by a prestigious firm. Workers are dismayed to find out that the rumours are true, though they will of course get compensated.. Oh,and the execs get bonuses for their hard work. Some will also get canned as their programs and people vanish.

The axe swingeth.

Twas ever so.

I take it from this lesson that you either currently work, or have worked, in the federal government. Pretty spot on lesson!

You did forget to mention the liberal use of such words as 'efficiencies' 'effectiveness' and the good old 'world class' phrase. But I imagine in this round of cuts, those are merely anachronisms now...

[Shwa]

Let's not forget how Canada got to this point. The Libs. left 13 billion in a emergency fund and the Tories went through that plus another what 56 billion plus the growing interest on it and now to get themselves out of debt, Canadian workers are going to lose their jobs thanks to the managers of these dept. The Tories also have the largest government, so they hired many workers, patted themselves on the back for growing the employed, then turn around and fire them so they can also pat themselves on the back to save money? I, too, don't think managers, especially in government, should get a special bonus for doing their job.

It is performance pay and has been around in the public service executive class for as long as I can remember. They are renumerated by achieving certain goals, usually yearly, based on - usually - some legislative or policy initiative. It isn't anything new and executives have gotten bonuses for staff reduction programs in the past.

What a smart top level executive will do is offer early retirement packages to staff and easily attain the 10% cut required. Afterall, millions in early retirement packages to public service staff is less than billions. I hope our esteemed MLW neocons remember this math when the time comes...