Character Assassination of the Chief of the Defence Staff

[g_bambino]

Bambino, smallc, let your "Hollywood starlets" (Queen/CDS) spend my money...

You mean parliament spends your money. (You know the Queen, CDS, prime minister, etc. spend only as much as they're allocated in the budget passed by parliament, right?)

[Smallc]

Bambino, smallc, let your "Hollywood starlets" (Queen/CDS) spend my money

What are you talking about? This as about the top person in the Canadian Forces, not Brad Pitt.

[dre]

Again, this is an engineered, anti-military witch hunt.

Well, theres lots of witches to hunt, and government officials are in season.

These guys requested some information and made it available. If Canadians are confortable with officials using government resources to go on trips to the Bahamas then nobody will care. They arent, then they will. Its just a piece of information, and people can feel however they want about it.

All these spending line-items should be on an easily searchable government website anyhow. The freedom of information act isnt enough, and the government should open up both itself and its books completely IMO.

[Argus]

I usually sit in economy and get work done. I'm not alone. I see mothers working/taking care of kids in economy.

Are you serious? The CDS is not you. The CDS is not going to spread papers around before him dealing with military operations while a mother feeds her baby and peers over his shoulder? You want him and his aids to go over casualty figures from Afghanistan while passing papers back and forth between their seats in economy?

[Argus]

No, I was the poster that said that Dechert, like Natynczyk, are abusing the public trust. They use their access to my bank account and my credit cards with impunity. They use this access to make themselves feel important.

Natynczyk runs a multi-billion dollar organization with over 100,000 employees.

He IS important.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Argus

[Guest Derek L]

Well, theres lots of witches to hunt, and government officials are in season.

These guys requested some information and made it available. If Canadians are confortable with officials using government resources to go on trips to the Bahamas then nobody will care. They arent, then they will. Its just a piece of information, and people can feel however they want about it.

All these spending line-items should be on an easily searchable government website anyhow. The freedom of information act isnt enough, and the government should open up both itself and its books completely IMO.

Well that’s just it, he wasn’t using government resources for a personal trip per say……His pre approved vacation was, that he paid for, which was planned around his family flying commercial, was interrupted by his job…..If it was planned that he’d just swing down to the Bahamas with government assets, why did his family fly commercial?

I have no problem with the public having access to seeing what the majority of their tax dollars are spent on……but this……….How would the reporter know to get reports from the freedom to information act, checking prior VIP flights? Obviously the reporter was tipped off? By who? And what was their motive?

I’m certain there’s more goings on in Government that would be more newsworthy.

But I agree, we likely won’t hear anything more about this in a week…..

[Army Guy]

I think we all get frustrated with government spending, but do you think we'd really be saving any funds by forcing the CDS , plus staff, flying commerical air...should we look at some of the problems before thinking we are really going to save any money here.....what class do we assign him and his staff, do we limit the CDS staff , do we allow his armed security detail, do we want to put at risk general population on board with his presence, do we even want to risk an incident , do we increase security for these flights....

what about perception from other nations....the CDS landing in some civilian airport in commercial aircraft going through regular customs. What if an incident requires the CDS to divert ?, what about sceduling does the CDS modify his scedule to flight times, what do we do if he needs to last minute re scedule ....or do we use an aircraft that was purchased for exactly these reasons....These aircraft have access to all the special comms gear these individuals need to govern their depts and the country if need to be....

[Argus]

I am a democrat, but I want no more of this 21st century form of democratic government.

Maybe you should join Zachary in the new world order, then.

[Wild Bill]

Are you serious? The CDS is not you. The CDS is not going to spread papers around before him dealing with military operations while a mother feeds her baby and peers over his shoulder? You want him and his aids to go over casualty figures from Afghanistan while passing papers back and forth between their seats in economy?

Good point, Argus. Actually, it could be even worse!

I can see it now. Iran launches a nuke at Tel Aviv. The whole world goes nuts and national leaders everywhere are frantically talking to each other, getting military communications and spy in the sky info at a furious rate.

Meanwhile, Canada's PM is blissfully unaware and totally out of the loop. He's just left on a trip to some function in a Caribbean country. Since he hasn't had a day off in about 3 months he decided to take his family along. Sensitive to all the criticism from the Opposition benches, they take a commercial flight, which unfortunately doesn't offer wifi computer connections and their cell phone connection is on the blink.

When he arrives in the Caribbean, several hours after the crisis has commenced, he has access to land-based communications services but none of them are diplomatically scrambled and secure. He has to humbly beg to use the facilities at an American or British embassy. Since he doesn't have Canada's own government plane that HAS such communication facilities he has to take a commercial flight and only allow a minimum of telephone discussion, so as not to breach security.

Eventually he gets back to Ottawa and faces his first Question Period, where of course the Opposition parties immediately castigate him for being such a bonehead as not to take a government jet!

Yammerheads, I tell ya. Yammerheads it is.

[August1991]

I think we all get frustrated with government spending, but do you think we'd really be saving any funds by forcing the CDS , plus staff, flying commerical air...

Army Guy, true, we all get frustrated with government spending.

But as Thatcher said, government (socialist experiments) will eventually run out of other people's money. Then what? What happens when the CDS can no longer spend other people's money?

-----

What planet are you people living on? Government servants cannot continue to consume a greater part of GDP. The CDS cannot have more flights and more planes. Eventually, it will stop.

Eventually he gets back to Ottawa and faces his first Question Period, where of course the Opposition parties immediately castigate him for being such a bonehead as not to take a government jet!

Optics. Even you WB understand that our PM could fly commercial except for optics.

We pay Harper and his family to make him feel important.

-----

I prefer small government. Years ago, I recall meeting a small country PM at Ottawa airport. I offered my hand but he smiled and carried his own baggage. He was alone, and had no security.

This is how Harper should travel, and what government should be.

As an ordinary Canadian, I have no more patience for this regal PM, sophisticated CDS or spendthrift politicians/public servants who spend 5 star on the basis of security/importance.

Thinking of Luther and Thatcher, we will likely have such government soon - unless we have worse. American and European government politicians/officials cannot continue to spend as they do.

What then?

Edited September 19, 2011 by August1991

[William Ashley]

Good point, Argus. Actually, it could be even worse!

I can see it now. Iran launches a nuke at Tel Aviv. The whole world goes nuts and national leaders everywhere are frantically talking to each other, getting military communications and spy in the sky info at a furious rate.

Meanwhile, Canada's PM is blissfully unaware and totally out of the loop. He's just left on a trip to some function in a Caribbean country. Since he hasn't had a day off in about 3 months he decided to take his family along. Sensitive to all the criticism from the Opposition benches, they take a commercial flight, which unfortunately doesn't offer wifi computer connections and their cell phone connection is on the blink.

When he arrives in the Caribbean, several hours after the crisis has commenced, he has access to land-based communications services but none of them are diplomatically scrambled and secure. He has to humbly beg to use the facilities at an American or British embassy. Since he doesn't have Canada's own government plane that HAS such communication facilities he has to take a commercial flight and only allow a minimum of telephone discussion, so as not to breach security.

Eventually he gets back to Ottawa and faces his first Question Period, where of course the Opposition parties immediately castigate him for being such a bonehead as not to take a government jet!

Yammerheads, I tell ya. Yammerheads it is.

Why not just carry a satalite phone or get a communications transcription program that will create scrambling that is on a predetermined phase transfer of decoding keys?

Sounds like an easy way to have secure communications anywhere. Or just use a fake internet VOIP program? Or all of the above.

Being secure doesn't require you to have a military jet with you. The fact the military jet is an easy target for EW totally negates its benefit.

Edited September 19, 2011 by William Ashley

[Guest Derek L]

Why not just carry a satalite phone or get a communications transcription program that will create scrambling that is on a predetermined phase transfer of decoding keys?

Sounds like an easy way to have secure communications anywhere. Or just use a fake internet VOIP program? Or all of the above.

Being secure doesn't require you to have a military jet with you. The fact the military jet is an easy target for EW totally negates its benefit.

Are Air Canada or Westjet airliners EMP hardened? Also, what makes you think a military jet is a “easy target” to electronic warfare?

[Topaz]

I think Natynczk is an ok guy, the only thing that stood out for me was that he NEEDED an vacation because of the stress within the world and the military. I understand that, so when do the guys on the ground fighting this war get pulled out and taken to the Carribean for THEIR vacation with THEIR families? Just think of all the practice time the plane and the pilots would have then.

[capricorn]

Government servants cannot continue to consume a greater part of GDP.

They can and they do. The problem I see is that politicians don't have the balls to cut the fat and stick to the downsizing. The Liberals did in the 90s with their program review but turned around and grew government to a size larger than before the cuts. The Conservatives are just as bad; there's no excuse for this majority government not to get serious about shrinking the bureaucracy.

Optics.

Chief of the Defence Staff General Walter Natynczyk spoke to reporters Monday morning following separate meetings with Prime Minister Stephen Harper and opposition party defence critics.

Gen. Natynczyk backed away from statements Sunday where he refused to reimburse taxpayers for any flights on a Challenger jet to Canadian Forces-related sporting events, fundraisers or a 2010 flight to tropical St. Martin.

“If the government, as the Prime Minister indicated, his office looks at that trip ... if the interpretation of the Treasury Board guidelines on this regard is incorrect, then I will reimburse as required,” he said.

“If I have to pay for the ticket, then I will do that.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/jet-setting-general-changes-tune-if-i-have-to-pay-for-the-ticket-then-i-will/article2171284/

Looks like the General got the "optics" speech from on high.

We pay Harper and his family to make him feel important.

This is one of the most bizarre comments you've ever come out with, and you've hatched some doozies.

[Smallc]

I understand that, so when do the guys on the ground fighting this war get pulled out and taken to the Carribean for THEIR vacation with THEIR families?

Except that he paid for his vacation.

[capricorn]

I think Natynczk is an ok guy, the only thing that stood out for me was that he NEEDED an vacation because of the stress within the world and the military. I understand that, so when do the guys on the ground fighting this war get pulled out and taken to the Carribean for THEIR vacation with THEIR families? Just think of all the practice time the plane and the pilots would have then.

I do declare Topaz, you seem to be growing a soft spot for the men and women in uniform. Good on ya.

[Guest Derek L]

I think Natynczk is an ok guy, the only thing that stood out for me was that he NEEDED an vacation because of the stress within the world and the military. I understand that, so when do the guys on the ground fighting this war get pulled out and taken to the Carribean for THEIR vacation with THEIR families? Just think of all the practice time the plane and the pilots would have then.

After deployment, the members serving in Afghanistan had a week to decompress……My brother, after has first of two rotations, spent a week in Greece Cyprus.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

I'll give credit when it's due.......A balanced report by CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/09/19/pol-challenger-natynczyk.html

The Prime Minister's Office has said it would look into the expenses and Natynczyk said if he's advised he must pay back some money, he would.

Natynczyk met with Prime Minister Stephen Harper and opposition defence critics Monday morning. He says he has the full support of Harper and Defence Minister Peter MacKay.

"These aircraft — these Challengers — are not used very much," CBC's James Cudmore reported.

Natynczyk said military Challengers are flown an additional 170 hours a year with no passengers on board so that pilots can maintain their proficiency.

"So these hours are paid for, they're all paid for — there's no incremental cost to the Crown," he said. "That's why, especially when I travel and I have the team with me, it's less expensive to the government of Canada to get into that Challenger than it is to put them into an aircraft, in a commercial aircraft."

Natynczyk travels with up to six or seven people, sometimes including a close protection team with automatic weapons. He also needs the secure communication lines provided on government aircraft that allow him to work while he's in the air.

Cudmore said sources told CBC News that the story about Natynczyk may have been leaked by someone, perhaps in a bid to see the general replaced

And this will be intresting to see who leaked the storey...

Liberal defence critic John McKay says Natynczyk made a compelling case.

"If the plane is sitting on the ground, nothing's happening with the plane. It’s still a cost to the taxpayer and the irony of the whole thing is that if he in fact books a commercial flight, it’s actually adding to the cost to the taxpayer," McKay said, adding he's critical of the NDP and Harper.

And a Liberal member defending him to boot!!

But of course, the left leaning CBC, is only trying to defend their flanks from cuts (sarcasm) and to show that CTV was "punked".......

[PIK]

One thing about the jets ,they can turn around if need be, where commercial is not going to.

[Rick]

Are you suggesting that Canada is on the verge of a revolution?

We’re lucky if we get 50% of the public out to vote…..let alone mass protests and/or armed revolt...

It's closer than the ignorant right wing think it is.

I love how the Conservatives in here are crying foul about people daring to question the very same waste they used to rail Liberal governments over and how their military boy should be entitled to his entitlements

Oh the irony....

[Guest Derek L]

It's closer than the ignorant right wing think it is.

I love how the Conservatives in here are crying foul about people daring to question the very same waste they used to rail Liberal governments over and how their military boy should be entitled to his entitlements

Oh the irony....

Do you have any evidence to suggest that’s the case? Or is that just a hunch? I tend to look towards near 40% of our population not bothering to vote as key, to prove that you’re full of beans……If 40% of Canadians can’t be bothered to spend twenty minutes voting every few years, I highly doubt you’ll see them take up arms and wage a “Workers Spring”……..

Perhaps I’m wrong in defining the terms/conditions/results of your said revolution………When you talk of revolution, are you suggesting you and some like minded friends getting worked up after a Rage concert and egging a government office? Something along these lines perhaps is putting things into a better context?

If not, enlighten me with your wisdom…..

[Rick]

Natynczyk runs a multi-billion dollar organization with over 100,000 employees.

He IS important.

Only in the minds of the military sycophants.

What he is, is someone who is employed by and whose expense account is paid for by me and the rest of this country's taxpayers.

As such we have the right to demand he quit needlessly wasting our money for his own personal benefit.

[Guest Derek L]

Only in the minds of the military sycophants.

What he is, is someone who is employed by and whose expense account is paid for by me and the rest of this country's taxpayers.

As such we have the right to demand he quit needlessly wasting our money for his own personal benefit.

Another couple of questions about your revolution……….will it be after a welfare day, and will it happen along a bus route?

[Rick]

Do you have any evidence to suggest that’s the case? Or is that just a hunch? I tend to look towards near 40% of our population not bothering to vote as key, to prove that you’re full of beans……If 40% of Canadians can’t be bothered to spend twenty minutes voting every few years, I highly doubt you’ll see them take up arms and wage a “Workers Spring”……..

Perhaps I’m wrong in defining the terms/conditions/results of your said revolution………When you talk of revolution, are you suggesting you and some like minded friends getting worked up after a Rage concert and egging a government office? Something along these lines perhaps is putting things into a better context?

If not, enlighten me with your wisdom…..

Or you might say that 40% are so disgusted with this country's political direction that they don't see voting as a true means for the change they desire.

Ignorance isn't a good thing to have Derek. I suggest you look around you and by around I mean outside of your cigar filled cognac sipping elitist world. Like August mentioned earlier, it's happening throughout the world. Canadians aren't immune from the tides that are turning with the working poor revolting against your Gods...

[Guest Derek L]

Or you might say that 40% are so disgusted with this country's political direction that they don't see voting as a true means for the change they desire.

Ignorance isn't a good thing to have Derek. I suggest you look around you and by around I mean outside of your cigar filled cognac sipping elitist world. Like August mentioned earlier, it's happening throughout the world. Canadians aren't immune from the tides that are turning with the working poor revolting against your Gods...

What first world, democratic nations have been overthrown lately? They’ve been talking a workers revolution in the West for decades…………but yet……it hasn’t happened…….And I’m losing little sleep over it…….

30 years ago, it was these guys championing the cause amongst the youth

Now you can watch them on Sony's Vevo site........and download their songs on itunes

I wonder how much money has been made by the guy that came up with the idea to put Che’s likeness on a t-shirt…………

That's Irony