Character Assassination of the Chief of the Defence Staff

[Smallc]

I'm absolutely appalled by the conduct of the media, especially CTV. I mean, today on QP, the CDS came on, explained the situation with his used of the jets and....Kevin Newman practically accused him of treason.

At one point, Natynczyk explained that the planes must fly a certain number of hours no matter what, and that they aren't now being used to their full potential (they flew 170 hours empty last year). Kevin Newman then proceeded to ask him about the price of a flight on Westjet!!!

There were several other points that the General made, as well. There's the reality that the CDS should never be out of communication range with the Canadian Forces or the Minister of National Defences (or the PM, for that matter). Flying commercial would potentially put him out of contact in an emergency.

There's the reality that the CDS does work while on the plane, and some of it is very sensitive. Flying commercial would be a waste of time.

Then, there's the reality that the CDS rarely flies alone, and that in fact multiple tickets would need to be purchased. Add to that the fact that media drastically inflated the cost of the flights (by including depreciation and crew costs that were paid anyway - the number they use is more than 3x the actual)...I'm just very frustration.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Smallc

[Smallc]

Oh, and if you don't believe me, just look at these headlines:

Disgusting Headlines

[Guest Derek L]

I agree 100%…………This storey is just the creation of news………….As was mentioned, the Challengers are already paid for, the aircrew aren’t making any more or any less flying the CDS or nothing around and all the trips, including the flight to meet his family on vacation, which was required since he missed his already paid commercial flight to attend a ramp ceremony……….I’m glad the CDS basically told them to pound sand when asked if he’d resign, or pay back the cost of the flights.

[Smallc]

I simply don't understand why Stephen Harper didn't explain this.

[TimG]

I simply don't understand why Stephen Harper didn't explain this.

You can't explain something in the modern media enviornment if it takes more than 30 seconds to explain it.

[Smallc]

You can't explain something in the modern media enviornment if it takes more than 30 seconds to explain it.

That's true, but he didn't seem at all supportive when the man hasn't done anything wrong.

[g_bambino]

Besides hockey and bitching about the weather, there doesn't seem to be a more common Canadian passtime than randomly singling out some person of authority on whom has been spent some amount of tax money for something the public, in its ignorance, thinks is a frivolity. Natynczyk is just the latest in a long line; before him was Harper, and Clarkson, and Chretien, and just about every member of the Royal Family for every second they were on Canadian soil (or in a Canadian jet). It's like an ugly mix of a residue of our Presbyterian beginnings with an almost total lack of knowledge about how things work around people high up in government.

It is, in part, created and fed by the media. But, they wouldn't keep produce it if the public didn't consume it ever time it was served, just like they do hockey drama and unusual weather events.

[sp]

Edited September 19, 2011 by g_bambino

[Smallc]

Yes, I agree, people are stupid.

I liked the CDS's line: The operation in Haiti was launched from the Back of a Challenger (two actually - one carrying Harper, and one carrying MacKay). Maybe some of that will get through the cloud of dirt. This CDS seems to be excellent at his job, and I'm really hoping that he can keep it.

Harper on the other hand, talked about the fact that his ministers don't use the jets as much...which is stupid since, as we now know, they're being under-utilized, but are flying anyway. I remember the fervour in 2010 when Flaherty used a Transport Canada Citation jet to fly from Ottawa to London. He's the Minister of Finance for God's sake, and there's nothing all that luxurious about a Citation. Commercial flying just can't get some things done, and it isn't the place for the PM, GG, CDS or senior ministers.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Smallc

[g_bambino]

Yes, I agree, people are stupid.

Not stupid. But certainly ill informed.

The media aren't going to do terribly much to educate, since the ignorance helps fuel the controversy off of which the media profits.

The Prime Minister, on the other hand, does seem to be doing a pretty lacklustre job of it himself. All I've heard, so far, was him muttering something about individuals who use a Challenger for personal reasons reimbursing the CF for the cost of a commercial flight. Perhaps I missed something.

[Smallc]

Not stupid. But certainly ill informed.

Whatever it is, it's their own fault.

[PIK]

The scandal free harper goverments just bugs the hell out of the media ,so they have to go out and try to make one.

[Oleg Bach]

It's not like he is the janitor stealing the bosses caddy for a road trip - he is the chief of defence.

[capricorn]

The scandal free harper goverments just bugs the hell out of the media ,so they have to go out and try to make one.

The issue initially made the news following a request for information by CTV for the passenger logs of the challengers.

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110915/million-spent-on-vip-flights-for-natynczyk-since-110915/20110915/?hub=OttawaHome

I wonder if they were that curious when Rick Hillier was CDS.

[g_bambino]

I wonder if they were that curious when Rick Hillier was CDS.

I'm not sure. But, Chretien did get flack for first advising the purchase of the Challengers and then using them.

[guyser]

I'm absolutely appalled by the conduct of the media, especially CTV.

I only caught a blurb of this on Fri night, but are you appalled that he used it to go to 6 hockey games and to meet his wife/family doen in the Carribean?

I thought it seemed a lot loony to use the plane for this.

What am I missing?

[August1991]

At one point, Natynczyk explained that the planes must fly a certain number of hours no matter what, and that they aren't now being used to their full potential (they flew 170 hours empty last year). Kevin Newman then proceeded to ask him about the price of a flight on Westjet!!!

Then maybe we have too many planes.

There were several other points that the General made, as well. There's the reality that the CDS should never be out of communication range with the Canadian Forces or the Minister of National Defences (or the PM, for that matter). Flying commercial would potentially put him out of contact in an emergency.

Yadda, yadda, national security, yadda, yadda.

There's the reality that the CDS does work while on the plane, and some of it is very sensitive. Flying commercial would be a waste of time.

I usually sit in economy and get work done. I'm not alone. I see mothers working/taking care of kids in economy.

Then, there's the reality that the CDS rarely flies alone, and that in fact multiple tickets would need to be purchased. Add to that the fact that media drastically inflated the cost of the flights (by including depreciation and crew costs that were paid anyway - the number they use is more than 3x the actual)...I'm just very frustration.

What's a Chief without all the Indians? Or what's a Hollywood starlet without all the security?

I agree 100%…………This storey is just the creation of news………….As was mentioned, the Challengers are already paid for, the aircrew aren’t making any more or any less flying the CDS or nothing around and all the trips...

Entirely misses the point.

----

Smallc, governments spend too much money. Let me make this more plain: too many people have too free access to taxpayer's credit cards and debit cards. Government spending is growing steadily.

From Athens to Brussels, from Washington to Canberra to Ottawa, this has to stop.

As a famous economist (Herb Stein) once famously said, something that can't go on forever will eventually stop.

If Stephen Harper makes a serious attempt at cutting government spending, then he is going to face all manner of interest groups (eg. CBC) angry about their cuts. They will point directly at the CDS and ask "Why us? Why not him?" And Stephen Harper will lose the debate.

And Canadian governments will slowly, generally follow the trendline of taking an ever larger chunk of our GDP, as they have over the past 80 years or so.

Edited September 19, 2011 by August1991

[Guest Derek L]

I only caught a blurb of this on Fri night, but are you appalled that he used it to go to 6 hockey games and to meet his wife/family doen in the Carribean?

I thought it seemed a lot loony to use the plane for this.

What am I missing?

The flights to hockey and football games were in his capacity as Chief of defence staff, representing the Canadian forces…….Just as we send around the Governor General to “wave the flag”…….The flight to the Caribbean to meet up with his family was done, since he missed his already paid for commercial flight to attend the repatriation of Canadian solders and a journalist.

These Challenger jets are already paid for, and the crew frequently make empty flights to keep certified on the aircraft, in other words, to keep their training level up.

This is a non-storey.

[g_bambino]

What am I missing?

The fact that the Chief of the Defence Staff isn't ever off-duty (even when on vacation; he could be required at a moment's notice) and thus can't ever fly commercial airlines.

[g_bambino]

Yadda, yadda, national security, yadda, yadda.

I usually sit in economy and get work done. I'm not alone. I see mothers working/taking care of kids in economy.

Aren't you the person who said a parliamentary secretary should be fired because his few flirtatious emails with a Chinese journalist were a threat to national security?

[Guest Derek L]

Then maybe we have too many planes.

No, six aircraft are about right, to maintian approx 2 aircraft 24/7 for Government of Canada VIP flights.....(Prime Minister/GG/Royal Family/Senior Cabinet minsisters/CDS)

Yadda, yadda, national security, yadda, yadda.

Smallc raises a good point. The level of (secure) communications within a military aircraft are many magnitudes above that of a civilian airline…..Canadian forces have been engaged in two war zones during the current CDS tenure

I usually sit in economy and get work done. I'm not alone. I see mothers working/taking care of kids in economy.

Are you conducting a war on the other side of the planet well in economy?

What's a Chief without all the Indians? Or what's a Hollywood starlet without all the security?

If a Hollywood starlet is kidnapped it won’t effect our national security

Entirely misses the point

Not at all, I don't feel you (or CTV) have a vaild point.

Smallc, governments spend too much money. Let me make this more plain: too many people have too free access to taxpayer's credit cards and debit cards. Government spending is growing steadily.

From Athens to Brussels, from Washington to Canberra to Ottawa, this has to stop.

As a famous economist (Herb Stein) once famously said, something that can't go on forever will eventually stop.

If Stephen Harper makes a serious attempt at cutting government spending, then he is going to face all manner of interest groups (eg. CBC) angry about their cuts. They will point directly at the CDS and ask "Why us? Why not him?" And Stephen Harper will lose the debate.

And Canadian governments will slowly, generally follow the trendline of taking an ever larger chunk of our GDP, as they have over the past 80 years or so.

The economic difference between the CDS riding aboard a Canadian forces Challenger, well performing his official capacity, and flying Scare Canada, is the cost of the meal he (and his staff) ate in flight…………

[dre]

The flights to hockey and football games were in his capacity as Chief of defence staff, representing the Canadian forces…….Just as we send around the Governor General to “wave the flag”…….The flight to the Caribbean to meet up with his family was done, since he missed his already paid for commercial flight to attend the repatriation of Canadian solders and a journalist.

These Challenger jets are already paid for, and the crew frequently make empty flights to keep certified on the aircraft, in other words, to keep their training level up.

This is a non-storey.

Its not a big deal, but its an optics thing and politicians around the world need to be more careful. We are headed for a time of great austerity yet our government is spending money like a drunken sailor and shows absolutely no sign of stopping.

So theres going to be more attention on this kind of thing. The free ride for western governments and their license to waste unlimited amounts of money is nearing an end.

[Guest Derek L]

Its not a big deal, but its an optics thing and politicians around the world need to be more careful. We are headed for a time of great austerity yet our government is spending money like a drunken sailor and shows absolutely no sign of stopping.

So theres going to be more attention on this kind of thing. The free ride for western governments and their license to waste unlimited amounts of money is nearing an end.

The optics are being engineered to look bad…….The CDS represents directly approx ~90k men and women in uniform….throwing out a puck or conducting a coin toss in communities that have a large representation of military folks and their families is no different than a minister attending a ribbon cutting ceremony.

The Department of national defence is one of the few departments that returns the unused portion of it’s annual budget to the treasury annually…….If we’re that bad off, we should also axe the Snowbirds and the RCMP’s musical ride amongst other cultural funding events…….What is the CBC’s yearly budget? What does it cost to make Little Mosque on the Prairie or Hockey Night in Canada?

[August1991]

Aren't you the person who said a parliamentary secretary should be fired because his few flirtatious emails with a Chinese journalist were a threat to national security?

No, I was the poster that said that Dechert, like Natynczyk, are abusing the public trust.

They use their access to my bank account and my credit cards with impunity. They use this access to make themselves feel important. It has to stop. Why? Because it can't continue.

----

If you don't believe me, just look at what is happening in Athens and Washington.

[dre]

The optics are being engineered to look bad…….The CDS represents directly approx ~90k men and women in uniform….throwing out a puck or conducting a coin toss in communities that have a large representation of military folks and their families is no different than a minister attending a ribbon cutting ceremony.

The Department of national defence is one of the few departments that returns the unused portion of it’s annual budget to the treasury annually…….If we’re that bad off, we should also axe the Snowbirds and the RCMP’s musical ride amongst other cultural funding events…….What is the CBC’s yearly budget? What does it cost to make Little Mosque on the Prairie or Hockey Night in Canada?

I think theres going to be more scrutiny of ALL of those things.

[Guest Derek L]

No, I was the poster that said that Dechert, like Natynczyk, are abusing the public trust.

They use their access to my bank account and my credit cards with impunity. They use this access to make themselves feel important. It has to stop. Why? Because it can't continue.

----

If you don't believe me, just look at what is happening in Athens and Washington.

How is the CDS abusing the public's credit card? He's carrying out his official capacity……….What’s the real actual cost of these flights? What would the cost be for him and a few of his aides to eat a boxed Hungreyman dinners on the government’s dime? 20-30 bucks a flight for 4 or 5 people?

What's that times six flights? Couple hundred dollars?