William Ashley Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hs2tpcWDsdpC4srAoldoyouUcMNQ?docId=CNG.b6d207691ba28c0711d32cc4f2496bd7.4f1 Once again like Afghanistan, the majority of Canadians support Palestine yet, the Harper Government says no. I think this is definately another snub at the majority of Canadians. The reality of this bid is that it would give Palestine an equal footing rather than inferior status. The only way you have peace is when it isn't in anyones interest to attack. Because Palestine is defensible, give me a freaken break. It seems like Israel would sooner give me west jerusalem before the PLO I think that the west has a real chance of looking like the bastards they are by this time next week. It is a historical blunder on the image of western europe and America (and its Canadian satalite) Sarkozy showed himself to be "out of touch with palestine" stating they wouldn't do it. Not only are they doing it but they are also going to put it up to the UN security council not only for observer status but outright membership. Even with the US yanking its aid bottle as a threat of asking for rights. Israel is out of touch on the fact of the occupation and millions of arabs and palestinians living within Israels occupation zone. They are indefensible now, they will be indefensible regardless of their situation, hence the billions of dollars of military spending each year, and the mandatory service in the military by its Jewish population) as it is a state of appartheid, run by its masterace of jews.. The only doubt in my mind is if Turkey will have the balls to confront the world on the aid flotilla issue whenever it arises. It would be far more symbolic to have the flotilla on the day of the proposed state recognition. http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/freedom-flotilla-3-may-sail-after-ramadan-august/ Edited September 17, 2011 by William Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyly Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 after 63 years of waiting and an occupier that has no intention of negotiating what have they got to lose...how patient do they expect them to be, every year that goes buy the zionists take more land, more water...an intolerable situation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) The majority support Palestine? - do you have any proof of that... ETA: Acceptance of a Palestinian State will put an end to any peacekeeping/negotiations, and who will pay for this, they can't pay wages and pensions now. PA receives US $500 million in funding from the U.S., should the UN recognize statehood, then the funding should be stopped, unless there is a declaration of peace from Hamas. Edited September 17, 2011 by scribblet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarg Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 You seem to have difficulty with things like the truth and facts so would you mind providing evidence that the majority of Canadians (fyi that means more than just Toronto or that giant suburb of southern Onatrio) want Palestine to be recognized or in fact care at all about the issue at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Well we know that Conservatives don't want it because their hero says no but... Personally speaking, as someone who's tired of the constant wailing coming from Israel and its supporters,I support the rights for Palestine to be recognised as a state in the U.N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 Big rally here in support of http://www.blogwrath.com/canada-anti-semitism/mighty-rally-in-toronto-in-support-of-the-palestinian-terrorist-state/1898/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
segnosaur Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 You seem to have difficulty with things like the truth and facts so would you mind providing evidence that the majority of Canadians (fyi that means more than just Toronto or that giant suburb of southern Onatrio) want Palestine to be recognized or in fact care at all about the issue at all. I'd go a little further. Not only would I want to see proof that the majority want Palestine to be recognized, I'd want to see how many want the recognition coming under the current circumstances (i.e. Gaza controlled by a group not willing to recognize Israel, territorial issues in the west bank, etc.) I would have no problem with a Palestinian state. I think ultimately it would be a good thing. But I think such recognition should come only under certain circumstances (e.g. half the territory not run by people willing to launch rocket attacks, etc.) Not that I think Israel is perfect (they should really rethink their building programs) but the ball really is in the Palestinian court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 I'd go a little further. Not only would I want to see proof that the majority want Palestine to be recognized, I'd want to see how many want the recognition coming under the current circumstances (i.e. Gaza controlled by a group not willing to recognize Israel, territorial issues in the west bank, etc.) I would have no problem with a Palestinian state. I think ultimately it would be a good thing. But I think such recognition should come only under certain circumstances (e.g. half the territory not run by people willing to launch rocket attacks, etc.) Not that I think Israel is perfect (they should really rethink their building programs) but the ball really is in the Palestinian court. Exactly. This statement, "the majority of Canadians support Palestine" is clearly just made up, and in order to have any meaningful discussion about it even if it were true: it needs to be qualified. What does "supporting Palestine" even mean? I would also support a "Palestinian state", under the right circumstances. But those circumstances certainly don't exist today, and will never exist in future. So it's basically an example of mental masturbation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) What about the deal in 2003 I think that would have gave them 95% of all they wanted and said no. Edited September 17, 2011 by PIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 What about the deal in 2003 I think that would have gave them 95% of all they wanted and said no. Right, because they really don't want peace or conditions that wouldn't give them Israel too (right of return). If their unilateral declaration of statehood is accepted and recognized, they will take it as a mandate to continue attacking Israel, it will cause more problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 What about the deal in 2003 I think that would have gave them 95% of all they wanted and said no. That was insanity. To offer such concessions to a population that is still violent and filled with hate was pathetic. Thankfully, the "Palestinians" will never rest until they "liberate" all of "their" land, so they couldn't say yes to the offer. To give autonomy to the enemy on our doorstep was the height of irresponsibility. Israel has no shortage of treasonous leftist politicians who are willing to accept "Palestinian" promises of peace while they continually support terrorism. It's like letting Bernardo out of prison because he signed a paper and promised to be a good boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Ashley Posted September 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) Among the threats of retaliation made by Israeli ministers are tearing up the Oslo accords, under which the Palestinian Authority was given control of parts of the West Bank and Gaza, annexing West Bank settlements to Israel and withholding tax revenues which Israel collects on behalf of the Palestinians. I'm very very interested in seeing if the troop buildups in those areas by Israel will be used to achieve this, and what the response from Egypt and Turkey will be. Edited September 17, 2011 by William Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Ashley Posted September 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) I'm very very interested in seeing if the troop buildups in those areas by Israel will be used to achieve this, and what the response from Egypt and Turkey will be. BTW there are ample sources for more canadians support Palestine thing.. however they are becoming harder to find, due to a lot of new posts stating Canada is against Palistine (refering to the Canadian government's position, rather than popular opinion polls etc.. indicating the opposite view. Here is one quote --------------------------------------------------- Creation of a New StateSince April, the proportion of respondents in the three countries who support the creation of an independent Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza Strip living side-by-side with Israel has increased markedly. More than half of Britons (58%, +8) and Canadians (54%, +7) support this course of action, along with two-in-five Americans (45%, +7). It is important to note that at least one-in-three respondents in each country are undecided - ANGUS REIDhttp://www.angus-reid.com/polls/39510/americans_britons_and_canadians_hesitant_on_middle_east_talks/ --------------------------------------------------- Take Europe as an example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/12/recognising-palestinian-state-public-approval http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/30/israeli-military-arms-settlers-protests?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487 http://www.salon.com/news/middle_east/?story=/politics/war_room/2011/09/15/palestinian_forces_american_training http://tinyurl.com/3fj98mf Edited September 17, 2011 by William Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) I would hazard a guess that most of the world is tired of right-wing Israeli histrionics, such as threatening to rip up the Oslo Accords, overreacting mercilessly to largely ineffective homemade rockets, etc. I congratulate the Palestinians on stepping outside the endless recriminations to try to take a bold step forward, to benefit their people. Bob I am curious under what circumstances you would accept a Palestinian state ... only if it was far, far away from Israel? And the "treasonous" left wing politicians, don't they in fact represent a 60% majority of the Israeli people? Doresident/citizen Arabs vote in Israel? Edited September 17, 2011 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 I say if the Palestinians want to declare statehood, more power to them. If they finally decide to spend some of their energy on state-building rather than launching rockets that'd do everyone in the region a lot of good, including Israel. And, Israel could deal with a sovereign Palestinian state much more straightforwardly if they committed acts of war such as launching rockets, rather than dealing with some kind of pseudo-occupied territory that no one wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Ashley Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) I say if the Palestinians want to declare statehood, more power to them. If they finally decide to spend some of their energy on state-building rather than launching rockets that'd do everyone in the region a lot of good, including Israel. And, Israel could deal with a sovereign Palestinian state much more straightforwardly if they committed acts of war such as launching rockets, rather than dealing with some kind of pseudo-occupied territory that no one wants. 70% of Palestinians do not support the Launch of Qassam Rockets into Israel. 56% of Israeli's support settlement construction in Palistinian territory. http://www.haaretz.com/news/poll-56-of-israelis-back-settlement-construction-1.277841 two years later.. http://goo.gl/YrmbL Edited September 18, 2011 by William Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 70% of Palestinians do not support the Launch of Qassam Rockets into Israel. And? I'm sure a large % of Canadians don't support bombing Libya either. So what? Our government initiated aggressive action, and if Qaddafi had the capability, he would be justified to strike back at us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 And? I'm sure a large % of Canadians don't support bombing Libya either. So what? Our government initiated aggressive action, and if Qaddafi had the capability, he would be justified to strike back at us. His 70% number is a lie with no support. Moreover, "settlement construction" is not qualified, so it necessarily includes construction in areas like Jerusalem and the surrounding neighbourhoods. OF COURSE Israelis support such developments, as they are mandatory to the basic operations of the capital city. Did anyone else notice how this guy just compared settlement development to murder as if they're somehow two sides of a coin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 I would hazard a guess that most of the world is tired of right-wing Israeli histrionics, such as threatening to rip up the Oslo Accords, overreacting mercilessly to largely ineffective homemade rockets, etc. I congratulate the Palestinians on stepping outside the endless recriminations to try to take a bold step forward, to benefit their people. Bob I am curious under what circumstances you would accept a Palestinian state ... only if it was far, far away from Israel? And the "treasonous" left wing politicians, don't they in fact represent a 60% majority of the Israeli people? Doresident/citizen Arabs vote in Israel? Jacee, although I typically have no problem discussing issues with people who know far less about the history of this region as well as how contemporary politics operate today, when it comes to someone like yourself who is so far out in left field and committed to lies and misrepresentations in order to construct a false narrative predicated on a one-dimensional view of all world events (you being a communist who hates all things privately owned, as well as all the other stupid baggage that comes with such a worldview)... there's really no point, is there? I mean, you literally make up percentages on the fly. It's hilarious, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 BTW there are ample sources for more canadians support Palestine thing.. however they are becoming harder to find, due to a lot of new posts stating Canada is against Palistine (refering to the Canadian government's position, rather than popular opinion polls etc.. indicating the opposite view. Here is one quote --------------------------------------------------- - ANGUS REID http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/39510/americans_britons_and_canadians_hesitant_on_middle_east_talks/ --------------------------------------------------- Take Europe as an example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/12/recognising-palestinian-state-public-approval http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/30/israeli-military-arms-settlers-protests?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487 http://www.salon.com/news/middle_east/?story=/politics/war_room/2011/09/15/palestinian_forces_american_training http://tinyurl.com/3fj98mf Without qualification, those numbers aren't too meaningful are they? Most Jewish people support the creation of a "Palestinian" state, as well, but within certain conditions. I would also support a "Palestinian" state under the right circumstances, but those circumstances will never come to be, so why even waste time entertaining such a fantasy? Most importantly, considering the massive ignorance of 99%+ of Westerners about the Israeli-Arab conflict, and how this conflict has no relevance to their lives whatsoever, why does it matter *what* Canadians or other Westerners think anyways? America provides aid to Israel, so I can understand their concern on a certain level, but Canadians and other posters in this forum speaking of how "tired" they are with this problems as if they're somehow affected by it? Talk about absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hs2tpcWDsdpC4srAoldoyouUcMNQ?docId=CNG.b6d207691ba28c0711d32cc4f2496bd7.4f1 Once again like Afghanistan, the majority of Canadians support Palestine yet, the Harper Government says no. I think this is definately another snub at the majority of Canadians. ******************** Israel is out of touch on the fact of the occupation and millions of arabs and palestinians living within Israels occupation zone. They are indefensible now, they will be indefensible regardless of their situation, hence the billions of dollars of military spending each year, and the mandatory service in the military by its Jewish population) as it is a state of appartheid, run by its masterace of jews.. The only doubt in my mind is if Turkey will have the balls to confront the world on the aid flotilla issue whenever it arises. It would be far more symbolic to have the flotilla on the day of the proposed state recognition. http://kiaoragaza.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/freedom-flotilla-3-may-sail-after-ramadan-august/ If we admit the Palestinian Authority why not admit the Symbionese Liberation Army (link to thread)? All sarcasm aside, it is a very bad idea for these countries pushing for Palestinian "recognition" to support the admission of any splinter group, liberation army or the like. Many African and Asian states are riven by tribal and secular conflict. In my opinion it would be a terrible idea to start willy-nilly admitting renegade organizations that in no real sense are states. Even the admission of non-viable, postage-stamp states has degraded the U.N. and essentially made it unworthy of support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.