Gap between rich and poor rising faster in Canada

[CPCFTW]

I just want to underline what Moonlight is saying here for those who share Pliny's delusion that 'welfare' covers "essentials". It doesn't.

Not as most of us understand "essentials", not even close.

Think about yourself as a single male getting $585/mo to pay all of your "essentials". The way banks calculate it, we shouldn't pay more than 40% of income on shelter - $234/mo. Look in your local paper and see where you can live for that. Likely nowhere. Find the cheapest and take a drive by, (go in, pretend you are looking for your kid). Would you want your dog to live there? It's a crackhouse, right? If it's a student house, they won't rent to you. Realistically, you don't get a minimally decent room (share kitchen, bathroom) for under $400, and that's lucky. So you have $185 left for phone, tv, food, transportation ... getting the picture? You can't afford. Entertainment, maybe 1 or 2 bus fares a month (doctor, etc). Some months you can't afford a phone, no cabe tv, no internet ... and you eat spam (only the first half of the month), pasta or potatoes and canned vegs. So you sit in your room, watching your blurry over-the-air tv, looking forward to nothing but your next pasta-and-peas meal. Oh btw ... you have grade 3 literacy skills, can't do any job requiring reading/writing. (Dad was abusive, Mom ran from him and then from rent every two months, so you just never got into school very much and never had to with a new school every few months. This is a very typical story.)

These are the men who are chronic welfare recipients. They are unemployable. They don't live a joyful life of leisure. Still think you want their life?

They are about 20% of welfare recipients. Those who are alcoholics don't eat much. Those who smoke pick up butts on the street and re-roll them most of the month.Even those who don't drink/smoke become energy-drained due to poor nutrition, another chronic cause of being unemployable. Chronic malnutrition may well look like 'laziness', but try eating only kraft dinner for a week and see how energetic you feel: Try working an 8 hr shift carrying drywall. Or slugging beef carcasses in a meat cooler, some of the casual jobs occasionally available to men on welfare. They can't do it.

The other 80% of welfare recipients are single Mom's with pre-schoolers who spend, on average, 3 years on welfare - ie, until the kids are in school and they get help to find a min. wage job, or more likely 2 or 3 part-time ones, if you're lucky.Poor nutrition is chronic, and what kind of chance do kids have without energy for learning, or even playing?

Just had to get that out there. There's waaaaay too much misinformed jealousy among the wealthy for the illiterate, unemployable 'poor'.

Reminds me of one of Barbara Amiel's columns, written (years back) on a day when hubby (Conrad Black) was sick with the flu and whining and driving her nuts. , and she was whining that 'poor Connie ... he works so hard, and all those people on welfare just get a free living!'

I wonder if 'Connie' has changed his perspective on the 'poor', now that he's met some.

Seriously people, there is no easy life for the 'poor'. You don't want it, and you sure as heck have no reason to be jealous or resent them. You have all your faculties and likely won the genetic lottery. They lost, and most lost the childhood environment lottery too. It's not like kids can choose.

Citation: Jacee's ass.

Sorry I don't feel much compassion for the woe is me mentality of teenage mothers and alcoholics.

[GostHacked]

This is what it all boils down to. Globalization rewards those who work the hardest.

Bull, it rewards who is the cheapest with the most lax environmental laws as well as political climate in that country.

I am sure things were outsourced to China because they work hard.

You think that other societies/countries should foot the bill for your socialist paradise.

No where have I said that. And that is something I do not agree with, but that is happening anyways. And has been for some time.

I guess racism and worker exploitation is tolerable if it is outside of your country's borders.

But these people work the hardest!!

[Bonam]

Just had to get that out there. There's waaaaay too much misinformed jealousy among the wealthy for the illiterate, unemployable 'poor'.

Not jealousy. What's there to be jealous of? More like disdain.

[CitizenX]

Not jealousy. What's there to be jealous of? More like disdain.

You have "disdain" for the illiterate, and unemployable 'poor'?

[Moonlight Graham]

Sorry I don't feel much compassion for the woe is me mentality of teenage mothers and alcoholics.

If you were abused as a child, maybe were taken away from your parents by CAS and grew up in group homes or shuffled around foster homes and nobody ever really loved you, never had any family to be with on Xmas morning, you might run away and live on the street like many do. And if your dad sucked on your penis as a boy and nobody loved you, odds are pretty good you'd turn to alcohol or drugs to cope with the pain too.

If you were a young woman and a family member stuck their fingers in your vagina as a kid/teen, or you were abused in other ways and lived in foster/group homes & nobody loved you, odds are decent too that you'd act out sexually as many of these young women do and screw boys like crazy. Lots of teenage girls/young women get pregnant, but many of the ones that go on welfare are the ones that need to because they don't have loving parents/family to help them out. They have to rely on social assistance, social housing, foodbanks etc. to get by. If they're lucky they wont have to ever stay at a women's shelter because the asshole boyfriend they are attracted to because he's like her asshole daddy beat the shit out of her, and maybe the kid too. And the cycle continues...

I worked at a community drop-in center for young disadvantaged mothers for awhile, volunteered there for a couple years too. Above was quite typical.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I worked at a community drop-in center for young disadvantaged mothers for awhile, volunteered there for a couple years too. Above was quite typical.

Is it also typical for drop-in center staff to reinforce their permanent state of victimhood?

[Moonlight Graham]

Not jealousy. What's there to be jealous of? More like disdain.

Why disdain?

Mom or dad abuse you, you are taken away by CAS as a kid/teen, grow up in group homes, but you run away from that hell-hole where neglect and abuse is also prevalent, live on the streets for awhile or live off welfare, and drop out of high school.

Or maybe you have a disability and can't work, or only part-time?

Maybe you're a single elderly woman and worked your life as a cashier and never had enough to save for retirement, now you're back is screwed up or you're deemed too old to be employed.

Ya man, the heck with the welfare state. Liberty for everyone, charities will take care of these problems even though they failed to do so in Canada prior to WWI/WWII.

[Bonam]

You have "disdain" for the illiterate, and unemployable 'poor'?

Not in general, but that accusation would at least make sense, unlike the jealousy thing. Some of them, specifically those that can work but choose not to, I do have disdain for. Aimlessly wasting their lives loitering on streets and spending their welfare money on booze and pot. What's to respect about that?

[Wild Bill]

Reminds me of one of Barbara Amiel's columns, written (years back) on a day when hubby (Conrad Black) was sick with the flu and whining and driving her nuts. , and she was whining that 'poor Connie ... he works so hard, and all those people on welfare just get a free living!'

You obviously haven't got the faintest shred of a clue about Amiel's childhood and early life, do you? One would have to be completely and totally ignorant to have written the paragraph above!

Once again, simply unbelievable!

[CitizenX]

Not in general, but that accusation would at least make sense, unlike the jealousy thing. Some of them, specifically those that can work but choose not to, I do have disdain for. Aimlessly wasting their lives loitering on streets and spending their welfare money on booze and pot. What's to respect about that?

No you said You have "disdain" for the illiterate, and unemployable 'poor'? This not an accusation this is what you wrote.

Just had to get that out there. There's waaaaay too much misinformed jealousy among the wealthy for the illiterate, unemployable 'poor'.

Not jealousy. What's there to be jealous of? More like disdain.

The right winger in you is out for all to see. Shame Shame :angry:

Edited September 29, 2011 by CitizenX

[Bonam]

No you said You have "disdain" for the illiterate, and unemployable 'poor'? This not an accusation this is what you wrote.

No I quoted jacee who said "there's too much jealousy for the unemployable poor". I said: "not jealousy, disdain". That construct means that I believe "disdain" should replace "jealousy" in jacee's quoted statement. So the effective meaning is: "there is too much disdain for the unemployable poor". Reading comprehension. Work on it. Whether I, myself, hold any disdain was left completely unspecified in that statement.

[CitizenX]

No I quoted jacee who said "there's too much jealousy for the unemployable poor". I said: "not jealousy, disdain". That construct means that I believe "disdain" should replace "jealousy" in jacee's quoted statement. So the effective meaning is: "there is too much disdain for the unemployable poor". Reading comprehension. Work on it. Whether I, myself, hold any disdain was left completely unspecified in that statement.

Just had to get that out there. There's waaaaay too much misinformed jealousy among the wealthy for the illiterate, unemployable 'poor'.

Not jealousy. What's there to be jealous of? More like disdain.

You have "disdain" for the illiterate, and unemployable 'poor'?

Not in general, but that accusation would at least make sense

Edited September 29, 2011 by CitizenX

[bush_cheney2004]

... Whether I, myself, hold any disdain was left completely unspecified in that statement.

That's how I read it too...any notion of "jealousy" is way off the mark and nonsensical. "Disdain" fits the bill nicely.

[Shwa]

Maybe...look how much help Howard Dean provided to the Grits. Don't worry poor and downtrodden Canadians, an ex-US politician will fly in to save you (for a large speaking fee).

Speaking fees, schmeaking fees. It's the Empire-like clubs we are talking about here. Our Green barometer is down a titch, send up VP Gore will ya?

[CitizenX]

Hugh Mackenzie: From 1992 to 2007, 90% of the income gain in Canada went to the top 1% while their effective tax rate went down

Edited September 30, 2011 by CitizenX

[bush_cheney2004]

Hugh Mackenzie: From 1992 to 2007, 90% of the income gain in Canada went to the top 1% while their effective tax rate went down

More of the same....American examples to make a point about Ontario. Amazing.

[blueblood]

Hugh Mackenzie: From 1992 to 2007, 90% of the income gain in Canada went to the top 1% while their effective tax rate went down

You would have a point if the rich stuffed their money in a mattress, but fortunately we haven't for hundreds of years.

Do rich people not help ordinary people by hiring them, investing, saving in banks, and buying more products than an average person. Oh and don't forget paying more dollars in tax than the average person. A simple yes or no should suffice.

[jacee]

No

You would have a point if the rich stuffed their money in a mattress, but fortunately we haven't for hundreds of years.

Do rich people not help ordinary people by hiring them, investing, saving in banks, and buying more products than an average person. Oh and don't forget paying more dollars in tax than the average person. A simple yes or no should suffice.

No.

[Bonam]

No

No.

What a powerful argument. I, for one, stand in awe of your irrefutable logic.

[bush_cheney2004]

What a powerful argument. I, for one, stand in awe of your irrefutable logic.

This is exactly how liberals argue...see YouTube video over on the Lib-Con Brain Difference thread.

[Bonam]

This is exactly how liberals argue...see YouTube video over on the Lib-Con Brain Difference thread.

Yeah the woman in the video is a perfect representation of jacee here.

[eyeball]

Do rich people not help ordinary people by hiring them, investing, saving in banks, and buying more products than an average person. Oh and don't forget paying more dollars in tax than the average person. A simple yes or no should suffice.

Yes and no is just too complicated isn't it?

[Jack Weber]

You would have a point if the rich stuffed their money in a mattress, but fortunately we haven't for hundreds of years.

Do rich people not help ordinary people by hiring them, investing, saving in banks, and buying more products than an average person. Oh and don't forget paying more dollars in tax than the average person. A simple yes or no should suffice.

The above response reminds me of Patrick Ewing's "defense" of being a very well paid NBA player during the last work stoppage in that league...

It was laughably pathetic then and it still is now....

[cybercoma]

Do rich people not help ordinary people by hiring them, investing, saving in banks, and buying more products than an average person. Oh and don't forget paying more dollars in tax than the average person. A simple yes or no should suffice.

No.

[cybercoma]

What a powerful argument. I, for one, stand in awe of your irrefutable logic.

This is exactly how liberals argue...see YouTube video over on the Lib-Con Brain Difference thread.

The poster asked for a yes or no answer.