McGuinty's policy platform

[capricorn]

The embarrassing leak has exposed the fact that even top Liberal insiders are concerned about some of the policies outlined to party strategists during a conference call Sunday.

An audio recording of the Liberal conference call was heard by The Canadian Press, in a leak the Progressive Conservatives said was proof the Liberals have some serious internal problems.

"It's embarrassing that the Liberals, after keeping their platform secret for so many months, had all the details leak, said PC campaign spokesman Jason Lietaer.

"Clearly, there are even Liberals who don't want to see four more years of Dalton McGuinty."

----

All-day trains along existing corridors of the provincially run GO Transit service, an expansion from rush-hour only service, is expected to be a big hit in the vote-rich suburbs surrounding Toronto.

"This will probably be well accepted and good politics in the 905 area," Steeve is heard to say on the phone call, which included such notable Liberal insiders as former health minister George Smitherman and strategists Bob Richardson and Andrew Steele.

People who hire an immigrant for their first job in Ontario would be eligible for a tax credit on the first $10,000 of costs associated with the hiring, a plan that raised some concern on the Liberal conference call.

"It reminded me a little bit of the potential blow back that we could see by positioning it from the opposition as an affirmative action program," said Steele.

The Liberal platform puts another $60 million into more support workers to buy three million more hours of home care for seniors.

If elected, the party would also create three new undergraduate campuses at universities across the province, but the Liberals won't specify locations because they don't want candidates saying they'll be fighting for those spots.

----

The Liberal platform includes 68 promises, 45 of them new, and would cost about $1.5 billion by year four. By contrast, the Liberals say the Progressive Conservative platform would cost $4 billion by the fourth year and the NDP's plan about $2.6 billion.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20110904/mcguinty-campaign-promises-110904/

Heard on the recording are comments admitting that the Liberal claim of a $14B hole in Hudak's platform was made up!

The Liberals believe they've been successful in convincing people there is a $14-billion shortfall in the PC's platform numbers.

"The $14-billion hole is basically just our excuse to say that he (Hudak) is going to go after health care and education, because that's the main message we want to drive," said McGuinty strategist Alicia Johnston. "You know you can't trust this guy with our health care and education systems."

The Liberals want to emphasize to voters the importance of sticking with the party and the leader people know during challenging economic times.

"The main theme of this platform is that it is a serious plan for serious times," said Steeve.

And, to keep things on a serious level in these serious times, the Liberals are breaking with tradition and banning other parties from attending McGuinty's events.

Breaking with a tradition of professional courtesy on the hustings that stretches back decades, the governing Liberals have banned Progressive Conservative and New Democratic MPPs, candidates and staffers from all electoral events featuring Dalton McGuinty.

“The Ontario Liberal campaign will strike a very serious tone and we’re only interested in presenting our positive plan to Ontarians,” Chris Morley, McGuinty’s chief of staff, told the Star on Sunday.

Concerned that opposition politicians or aides “would play political games” at the Liberal leader’s events, Morley last week called senior officials with Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak and NDP Leader Andrea Horwath to advise them they were not welcome to attend.

Lynette Corbett, Hudak’s chief of staff, said she was “very surprised given past practices among the parties.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1049271

And of course a carrot is thrown in for seniors: an annual credit for "healthy home renovation" credit (even if they reside with a relative) to keep them comfy and safe.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/provincialelection/article/1049148--liberals-woo-students-seniors-on-eve-of-platform-launch?bn=1

The platform is to be announced tomorrow (Monday). Consider yourself warned.

[Boges]

Interesting.

No mention of their horrible energy policy?

Giving a tax break to someone hiring an immigrant will not go over well.

It's ironic that McGuinty would ban opposition parties form their events. I know it's not exactly the same but the CPC took a lot of heat for banning a student that had a pic of herself with Iggy on her facebook page.

[mentalfloss]

McGuinty promises 30 per cent tuition cut, as Liberal platform unveiled

Dalton McGuinty is hoping a 30 per cent cut in college and university tuition fees will win the Liberals a passing grade from voters.

The Liberal leader unveiled his long-awaited platform – including 45 new promises at a cost of $1.5 billion annually -- for the Oct. 6 election with a massive new pledge worth up to $1,600 a year for full-time university students.

“We're taking the next step ... to make sure postsecondary education remains accessible and affordable to the middle class,” said the Liberal platform, entitled “Forward. Together.”

“So we're going to support all middle-class Ontario families with a 30 per cent across-the-board post-secondary tuition grant.”

The new measure, which would be directly applied by the universities and colleges when they send out tuition bills, would cost the treasury $423 million annually.

Existing tuition breaks for low income students would remain in place, party officials said.

It would be available only to students from families with a gross household income of $160,000 a year -- about 86 per cent of the 90,000 students currently enrolled -- and takes effect Jan. 1.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1049355--mcguinty-promises-30-per-cent-tuition-cut-as-liberal-platform-unveiled?bn=1

[William Ashley]

The tuition thing is pretty much 2 or 3 "free courses" a year. Or one free course a term.

Things are fluctuating online. I'm trusting the internet less and less as time goes on. WE NEED A NATIONAL NETWORK FOR SECURE COMPUTING SEPARATE FORM THE INTERNET.

I thought I saw the original bill as being 200 million then the cbc news article is stating 400 to 500 million. For the tuition grant

I would think a lot of students would be highly responsive to that type of situation. Although the 30% reduction thing seems off. For some programs the 1700 would be more like 50% of tuition -- so it will be nice if this gets presented as a $1700 per student or 30% off tuition. They mean two totally different things.

For someone in a high cost program -- 30% is a lot more than $1700 for a low cost program.

I've seen differing figures also

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/09/05/ontario-liberals-campaign_n_949313.html

This one stating 1600 etc..

False reporting or hacking from China over the arms sales misreporting from Canadian Media? Likely just some places havn't quoted the amount listed on the campaign website.

30% across-the-board, postsecondary undergraduate tuition grant.

That means – every year – the families of five out of six students will save $1,600 per student in university and $730 per student in college

Although you know a term is starting up right now, why not give it for the whole year starting now? Rather than just winter and spring terms?

The Ontario Legislature is not currently in Session. The Second Session of the 39th Parliament prorogued on June 1, 2011.

Well it will be interesting to see how things turn out ---

Edited September 5, 2011 by William Ashley

[Boges]

Funny had the PC's put a tuition cut in their platform they'd be accused of eroding the tax base.

You need look no further than the strike of support workers and Ontario Community colleges to realize why tuition is so high.

I think too many students are going to post-secondary school for the wrong reasons. There should be no government subsidies for Liberal Arts degrees or programs that have little or no expectations on the future job market.

Money should be funneled to alloying people easier access to industries in demand like the trades and re-training people that find themselves unemployed because the industry they had been working in for years has erroded.

[jacee]

I think too many students are going to post-secondary school for the wrong reasons. There should be no government subsidies for Liberal Arts degrees or programs that have little or no expectations on the future job market.

No evidence of that myth:

http://www.ipb.uwo.ca/rates.php

[capricorn]

Giving a tax break to someone hiring an immigrant will not go over well.

As far as I can see, that is the item most talked about online. Most comments centre around "it's divisive" and "an unfair advantage over other unemployed and underemployed Ontarians". Christina Blizzard expresses it this way.

Thousands of people — young and old — have lost their jobs in recent years. Our manufacturing sector has been decimated, in part due to McGuinty’s disastrous electricity policies.

But this government is going to throw $12 million into a program that will skew the hiring scene for home-grown job seekers.

Imagine this: A company is hiring staff. There are two applicants. One is a young person recently arrived in this country, speaking little English. He or she has no background and no history of working and paying taxes in this country.

The other applicant is a young person who was educated here. Who’s paying taxes. Whose parents paid taxes and who’ve contributed to this community in countless ways. The young person probably has a student debt.

Who’ll get the job? Well, McGuinty’s just given employers 10,000 reasons to hire the newcomer.

This isn’t what immigration to this country is all about.

Countless generations of newcomers have arrived on our doorstep. They’ve worked hard, paid their way. Never gone on welfare. And asked nothing — repeat NOTHING — from their government.

I have news for McGuinty and his out-of-touch buddies. It’s a tough job market out there for everyone.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/05/mcguinty-pandering-to-immigrants-blizzard

The $10,000. tax credit to businesses hiring new immigrants may become McGuinty's Tory faith based schools moment.

Here's something from her column I hadn't picked up from the 60 page platform document.

There’s another interesting admission in the platform. They’ve finally discarded any pretence that all-day kindergarten is about education.

“Full-day kindergarten is saving families up to $6,500 per child per year in child care costs,” says their glitzy platform book.

So, it wasn’t about quality education after all. It’s all about free daycare. It’s about buying your vote with your own money.

[Boges]

As far as I can see, that is the item most talked about online. Most comments centre around "it's divisive" and "an unfair advantage over other unemployed and underemployed Ontarians". Christina Blizzard expresses it this way.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/05/mcguinty-pandering-to-immigrants-blizzard

The $10,000. tax credit to businesses hiring new immigrants may become McGuinty's Tory faith based schools moment.

Here's something from her column I hadn't picked up from the 60 page platform document.

Yet Unionized Teachers had to be incharge. I don't think Daddy Dalton wants to win.

[capricorn]

Yet Unionized Teachers had to be incharge.

More school kids = more teachers = more votes for Premier Dad. Premier Dad's teacher wife must be so proud.

I don't think Daddy Dalton wants to win.

He's depressed. 13 Liberal giant brains jumped ship and are not running for re-election.

[Wild Bill]

More school kids = more teachers = more votes for Premier Dad. Premier Dad's teacher wife must be so proud.

He's depressed. 13 Liberal giant brains jumped ship and are not running for re-election.

I'm still not sure if he's simply throwing out bribes in all directions, desperately trying to get some support, or if he's dumb enough to believe his own BS!

Maybe it's both! A dumb Dalton insisting on running his own ship and a bunch of his more intelligent crew frantically trying to keep the ship afloat...

[Guest Peeves]

I'm still not sure if he's simply throwing out bribes in all directions, desperately trying to get some support, or if he's dumb enough to believe his own BS!

Maybe it's both! A dumb Dalton insisting on running his own ship and a bunch of his more intelligent crew frantically trying to keep the ship afloat...

I think Dalton didn't think the 'immigrant job incentive' policy through, it's a vote killer big time.

All points are good ones. That teachers were bought by the baby sitting jobs, that A Canadian could lose a job to someone just off the boat because of a Liberal incentive program, that buying student votes and something seemingly missed,the billions in illegal eco.tax up front on products we buy.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2010/07/10/14669871.html

[Boges]

Of course you're racist if you don't think immigrants should get tax credits to be employed right?

[Argus]

No evidence of that myth:

http://www.ipb.uwo.ca/rates.php

I`m not sure the term `employed`is adequate in this case. In my experience, a lot of those arts grads are employed in the service industry, which is not what we send them to university for.

[bloodyminded]

Here's something from her column I hadn't picked up from the 60 page platform document.

Theres another interesting admission in the platform. Theyve finally discarded any pretence that all-day kindergarten is about education.

Full-day kindergarten is saving families up to $6,500 per child per year in child care costs, says their glitzy platform book.

So, it wasnt about quality education after all. Its all about free daycare. Its about buying your vote with your own money.

Why is it either/or?

And even given the writer's own framework: how are any number of government items--certainly including tax cuts--not about "buying your vote with your own money"?

Edited September 6, 2011 by bloodyminded

[scribblet]

This tax credit is discriminatory, I wonder if it would survive a charter challenge, it could also be a game changer unless McGuinty backtracks now.

Hey, want 10 grand, just don't hire the native-born Canadian.

[capricorn]

Hey, want 10 grand, just don't hire the native-born Canadian.

...and immigrants here longer than 5 years.

[scribblet]

Will this divisive policy be McGuinty`s downfall, John Torie`s voucher proposal was called divisive and contributed to his downfall.

I`m predicting a minority Liberal gov`t.

[Michael Hardner]

I`m not sure the term `employed`is adequate in this case. In my experience, a lot of those arts grads are employed in the service industry, which is not what we send them to university for.

In my experience, they end up in sales too, which is a lucrative and productive career.

[Boges]

This tax credit is discriminatory, I wonder if it would survive a charter challenge, it could also be a game changer unless McGuinty backtracks now.

Hey, want 10 grand, just don't hire the native-born Canadian.

He's not backtracking. He accused Hudak of being a Teabagger yesterday.

I Effing hate this guy with a passion!

[capricorn]

He's not backtracking. He accused Hudak of being a Teabagger yesterday.

I Effing hate this guy with a passion!

Here's McGuinty's exact quote.

"It think it's a sad day for Ontartio. You know, the Progressive Conservative Party is no longer with us," he said.

"It's been taken over by the Tea Party, and they're practicing a different kind of politics, which is the politics of anger, envy, resentment, and division."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontariovotes2011/story/2011/09/06/tax-credit-ontario-immigrant546.html

Really? I've yet to see the wooden Hudak angry, envious, resentful or divisive. I'm sure if he did regular folks would notice and talk about it. Whether that would cause them to equate him and the PCs as Tea Partyers is another matter. It appears the Liberal war room believes that references to the PCs as the Tea Party will adequately demonize Hudak and the PCs, deflect from a discussion of the Liberal platform and improve their position in the polls.

[scribblet]

Here's McGuinty's exact quote.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontariovotes2011/story/2011/09/06/tax-credit-ontario-immigrant546.html

Really? I've yet to see the wooden Hudak angry, envious, resentful or divisive. I'm sure if he did regular folks would notice and talk about it. Whether that would cause them to equate him and the PCs as Tea Partyers is another matter. It appears the Liberal war room believes that references to the PCs as the Tea Party will adequately demonize Hudak and the PCs, deflect from a discussion of the Liberal platform and improve their position in the polls.

Agreed, McGuinty is attempting to change the narrative, by smearing Hudak, this is an opportunity for a great ad. I'd donate to that one.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

No worse than what I'd hear listening to Hudak behind closed doors.

Except more talking about liberal bogey men and how people can't be trusted with the real plans on how he is going to folow through with his plans.

Edit:

The Liberals noted in a release that Hudak introduced proposed legislation in June 2010 titled Newcomers Employment Opportunities Act that included a 10 per cent wage subsidy for employers who hire skilled newcomers.

Link

Edited September 8, 2011 by MiddleClassCentrist

[scribblet]

Hudak's plan is no where near what McGuinty is proposing, it's for English as a second language and capped at $400.00 I doubt that anyone would be too upset if McGuinty capped his proposal at the same amount.

There are a lot of skilled Ontario workers who are collecting EI right now, from all walks of life who could do with we employment assistant programs, so if McGuinty wants to do that, it should be for ALL people. We should not be creating a society that rewards one group while putting another at a disadvantage.

[capricorn]

No worse than what I'd hear listening to Hudak behind closed doors.

Got an example?

The Liberals noted in a release that Hudak introduced proposed legislation in June 2010 titled Newcomers Employment Opportunities Act that included a 10 per cent wage subsidy for employers who hire skilled newcomers.

Well then. Isn't it interesting that at the time the McGuinty gov. didn't enable its adoption but now they're for an even more generous tax credit package?

In addition, the 2010 proposal is not in the PC election platform. Here is what is in the PC platform for newcomers.

We will create more opportunities for newcomers to Ontario.

We will make Ontario a magnet for the world’s best and brightest by reducing barriers for potential new Canadians, particularly

for people who settle in Ontario’s small towns. To ease our newcomers’ transition we will improve transparency of foreign

credential recognition, and create a tax credit for employers who sponsor language training.

http://www.ontariopc.com/pdf/Changebook_en.pdf

Note that the language training credit applies to newcomers already employed, not those seeking employment.

[Oleg Bach]

There are no leaders to be had in any of the parties running - which is distressing..BUT just remember - never in the history of mankind has a politican ever solved a problem or enhanced the quality of human life..EVER - I don't even know why we have them....do YOU?

Your life is in your hands - not theirs - so lets not worry about what mindeless idiot gets in - it's not going to matter one way or the other - so enjoy you life - stand tall and carry yourself like the king you are and let the public servants go about wasting your money -and attemtping to oppress - cos' they area fools and YOU are not - good luck and don't worry about the end results of the election - better to have a useless government than a truely dangerous one...Love to all and see you later.