Scarf Melee at Playland Amusement Park

[jbg]

Playland is a glorious, art deco amusement park built in the 1920's in Rye, New York, about 40 kms from New York City. On a fine, hot, sunny summer day it is pure fun. There's a swimming pool, lots of rides, and the place is fully of giggling children and teens out having a good time. Prices are low, and the place is not pretentious

Thus, it was a good choice for the holding of an celebration of Eid-ul-Fitr, a Muslim holiday capping off the Ramadam fast. Unfortunately, things went badly wrong. One wonders if the same thing would happen witha synagogue youth group celebration. I have excerpted two articles, links within headlines.

15 arrested in Playland melee over head scarves

(link)

RYE, N.Y. A melee broke out Tuesday afternoon at Playland Amusement Park when Muslim visitors became angry that the park was enforcing its rules on headgear by prohibiting the women from wearing their traditional head coverings on some rides.

******************

Parks officials "painstakingly" told the organizer about the headgear ban, said Tartaglia. But he said that the rules might not have been communicated by the organizer to some attendees.

Three accidents on Playland rides that killed two children and a park worker between 2004 and 2007 were unrelated to clothing the victims were wearing. But the headgear ban was among safety rules that went into effect after those deaths.

"It's a safety issue on rides. If it's a scarf, you could choke," Tartaglia said.

**********************

Her father and 14 other people were arrested after word of her protest spread to others in the crowd and tempers flared, she said. Some were yelling and cursing at each other, after an internal dispute arose over whether the women should just take their scarves off to go on the rides. (See related story for more details.)

=====================================

Update: Photographer on Playland melee: Authorities right to step in

(link)

RYE When Tara Abadir saw groups of Muslim men and women pushing and shoving each other at Rye Playland, she grabbed her sister's camera and started taking photos.

"They were fighting with each other, screaming at each other," she said. "It kept going."

***************

People were just grabbing each other and fighting I saw a man hit a woman on her back," she said, "It was clear if authorities didn't step in, someone would have been seriously hurt."

When police tried to break up the melee, Abadir said, "there was resistance." She recalled seeing a Muslim woman was pleading with an officer to let go of her friend.

"She was saying, 'Please, please sir. She's a lady. You can't touch her.' And (the officer) said 'I don't care who she is. You can't hit people. That's not how it works.'"

Edited September 1, 2011 by jbg

[Moonlight Graham]

BEHOLD! THE POWER OF A PIECE OF CLOTH!

Oh great scarf, how thy gentle fibers divide man against each other. Fear not nuclear weapons nor climate change, for it is cloth that shall ignite the funeral pyre for the human race.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Moonlight Graham

[Mr.Canada]

Ban all head scarves and face coverings in public. Problem solved. We need to stop being so politically correct and scared of Muslims or scared of offending Islam.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[g_bambino]

Ban all head scarves and face coverings in public.

Well, that'll ruin Hallowe'en. And no more sexy 1950s movie starlet look with silk scarf around the head and big sunglasses. What a bummer.

[CANADIEN]

Ban all head scarves and face coverings in public. Problem solved. We need to stop being so politically correct and scared of Muslims or scared of offending Islam.

Why stop there? Let's ban all religious headgear and clothings. Including those worn by Catholic priests and nuns. Agreed?

Oops, I forgot. Unlike the (sensible) decision by the amusement park to prohibit pieces of clothing that could pause a safety risk for people wearing them, your chier motivation is your hatred towards Muslims. How remiss of me.

[jbg]

Oops, I forgot. Unlike the (sensible) decision by the amusement park to prohibit pieces of clothing that could pause a safety risk for people wearing them, your chier motivation is your hatred towards Muslims. How remiss of me.

The truth is somewhere between your post and that of the post to which you were responding.

The problem that Mr. Canada points out, perhaps in somewhat extreme terms, is that many, though not all, Muslims are not prepared to accept secular laws of the U.S. or Canada. Whether it's amusement park rides, voting or other public activities, Muslim tradition must sensibly bow to secular norms. Similarly, I do not support making allowances for workers to stop work five (5) times a day for prayer. Maybe we can bend a bit on holidays, but a month off for Ramadan is a bit much.

Remember, they came here. When in Rome....

[Moonlight Graham]

Ban all head scarves and face coverings in public. Problem solved. We need to stop being so politically correct and scared of Muslims or scared of offending Islam.

Does this mean no more San Diego Chicken? Or Mickey Mouse at Disneyland? Or Spartacat???

[cybercoma]

the (sensible) decision by the amusement park to prohibit pieces of clothing that could pause a safety risk for people wearing them

They weren't banned before 2007 and there had never been an issue with them. No one has ever been hurt by wearing them on the rides. It's a little hard to say something poses a risk, if people were allowed to do it before and they were never injured from it. In this way, I don't think it's sensible at all.

[GostHacked]

Ban all head scarves and face coverings in public. Problem solved. We need to stop being so politically correct and scared of Muslims or scared of offending Islam.

But I need my helmet to ride my motorbike. It covers my whole head. What should I do Mr. Canada?

[Michael Hardner]

The problem that Mr. Canada points out, perhaps in somewhat extreme terms, is that many, though not all, Muslims are not prepared to accept secular laws of the U.S. or Canada

Please prove this.

[Mr.Canada]

The new immigrants need to start respecting our ways of life in the west instead if trying to change everything to suit them and make the rest of us uncomfortable. This is our country. If immigrant people aren't happy with the way things in the west are perhaps they should move someplace else.

We need to ban all Islamic face coverings in public. We cannot have citizens walking around in a non western tradition disguise. Remember 9/11? It can happen again if we aren't ready to change history will repeat itself.

If a private company decides something is a safety issue then that's it case closed, it's a safety issue. We don't pay their insurance they do. Their insurance co. most likely made these restrictions in the first place.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[Sir Bandelot]

Remember, they came here. When in Rome....

I find this statement ironic, coming from a Jew.

[GostHacked]

The Islamists need to start respecting our ways of life in the west instead if trying to change everything to suit them and make the rest of us uncomfortable. This is our country. If Islamic people aren't happy with the way things in the west are perhaps they should move someplace else.

Yeah, all those who immigrated from former eastern block countries need to leave as well. We can't let little old Polish ladies running around with scarves on their heads. My grandma who was born in Canada should not be able to wear her scarf on her head either then correct? Because it is not part of our 'western' culture?

We need to ban all Islamic face coverings in public. We cannot have citizens walking around in a non western tradition disguise. Remember 9/11? It can happen again if we aren't ready to change history will repeat itself.

Yeah remember 9/11? Not one them was wearing Islamic clothing when they hijacked the planes (if you still believe that it was Muslim terrorists). None of them hid their faces.

If a private company decides something is a safety issue then that's it case closed, it's a safety issue. We don't pay their insurance they do. Their insurance co. most likely made these restrictions in the first place.

I don't have a problem with a private company deciding what the rules are on their own property.

[Mr.Canada]

Yeah, all those who immigrated from former eastern block countries need to leave as well. We can't let little old Polish ladies running around with scarves on their heads. My grandma who was born in Canada should not be able to wear her scarf on her head either then correct? Because it is not part of our 'western' culture?

Head coverings weren't a problem until people who covered their entire faces started coming to Canada. This should not be allowed in Canada.

Yeah remember 9/11? Not one them was wearing Islamic clothing when they hijacked the planes (if you still believe that it was Muslim terrorists). None of them hid their faces.

They were told to wear western clothes so as to blend in. It worked. We have to be smarter then them now. We need to start racial profiling to protect the majority of our own citizens. I think it's about time that the majority gets a say in the running of our country instead of noisiest minority groups.

I don't have a problem with a private company deciding what the rules are on their own property.

A company is contracted to run the midway at a fair. That company has to pay insurance so for the day the fair ground is their own property.

[Mr.Canada]

Here is a video of the arrest.

The police did their jobs. If a massive brawl breaks out for any reason the police must take action to protect those who are innocent.

Wearing a long hijab on some rides is an obvious safety concern. Not to mention an insurance liability.

[Michael Hardner]

Head coverings weren't a problem until people who covered their entire faces started coming to Canada. This should not be allowed in Canada.

Key words: coming to Canada. In other words, it became a lightning rod for racist and xenophobic points of view. There was religious garb like this prior, but it was just another thing to make the haters become angry.

[cybercoma]

The new immigrants need to start respecting our ways of life in the west

As if there's some homogeneous way of life here. Liberty, remember, is about people finding and pursuing the way of life that suits them best.

instead if trying to change everything to suit them and make the rest of us uncomfortable.

If the way someone dresses makes you uncomfortable, then I think the issue is with you.

This is our country. If immigrant people aren't happy with the way things in the west are perhaps they should move someplace else.

The call to the West is liberty and freedom. This implies that the West respects others' cultures, religions and beliefs. If you don't respect someone's right to observe their faith in a way that is not harmful to others, then might I suggest that you move some place else that adheres more to your intolerant and anti-Western worldview.

We need to ban all Islamic face coverings in public. We cannot have citizens walking around in a non western tradition disguise.

You say, "we cannot have citizens walking around," but you mean we cannot have Muslims walking around covered in public. It seems you're perfectly ok with others being covered because...

Remember 9/11? It can happen again if we aren't ready to change history will repeat itself.

And, yes. I remember 9/11. Do you remember how many of the hijackers were wearing traditional Muslim headcoverings? I'll save you the trouble of looking it up. The answer is ZERO.

Moreover, you're committing a logical fallacy with your argument here. While all the terrorists of 9/11 were Muslim that does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists. To give you a different example of your categorical error, consider the following:

All dogs are animals. True.

All animals are dogs. False.

Applied to your argument:

All 9/11 terrorists were Muslim. True.

All Muslims were 9/11 terrorists. False.

More to the point, you're trying to prevent future terrorism by targeting Muslims and it is most certainly not the case that all terrorists are Muslim. It's also not the case that banning their perfectly innocuous religious observances (like tradition headcoverings), would make us any safer. In fact, it's more likely to insight violence due to pulling the rug out from under people. Lure them with the promise of liberty and tolerance, then attack their religion when they get here. At best, it's hypocritical.

If a private company decides something is a safety issue then that's it case closed, it's a safety issue. We don't pay their insurance they do. Their insurance co. most likely made these restrictions in the first place.

If there has never been an accident due to religious head-scarves, it's hard to see how this could be considered a safety issue. They operated without this ban for decades and did not have a single incident. It's not case-closed. It's a restriction that unfairly impacts one group of people more than any other and in this way produces a religious bias, whether intentional or not.

[Mr.Canada]

Key words: coming to Canada. In other words, it became a lightning rod for racist and xenophobic points of view. There was religious garb like this prior, but it was just another thing to make the haters become angry.

I don't think Canadians should be forced to accept everything culturally foreign or be labeled a racist or phobic. This is a ridiculous point of view.

[Michael Hardner]

I don't think Canadians should be forced to accept everything culturally foreign or be labeled a racist or phobic. This is a ridiculous point of view.

The entire country is a cultural construct made of European, Asian and native aspects to name a few.

We accepted these things and we will continue to do so. It's healthy to do so, and Canadians feel so strongly about it that it's in our constitution.

I'm sorry for you that you don't like people who look different, but you shouldn't base your world views on such feelings.

[jbg]

They weren't banned before 2007 and there had never been an issue with them. No one has ever been hurt by wearing them on the rides. It's a little hard to say something poses a risk, if people were allowed to do it before and they were never injured from it. In this way, I don't think it's sensible at all.

Three people were killed between 2004 and 2007 on rides. The park is overall not particularly safe. They reviewed rules and toughened them in 2007 as a result of the tragedies.

[Black Dog]

Three people were killed between 2004 and 2007 on rides. The park is overall not particularly safe. They reviewed rules and toughened them in 2007 as a result of the tragedies.

How many victims were wearing headscarves?

[cybercoma]

I find this statement ironic, coming from a Jew.

This is true, jbg. I have nothing but respect for you, but what's being discussed in this thread is consistent with the discrimination faced by Jews in the early 20th century. Imagine not being allowed to wear the yamulka or even the entire outfit worn by the Hasidic Jews. More specifically to this discussion about safety issues on amusement park rides, imagine they banned the peyos as a potential hazard. It quite simply unfairly targets one group of people over another. Even though anyone with peyos, regardless of religion would not be admitted, the only people with them are select Jewish sects. It unfairly targets one religion.

The headscarves worn by Muslim women does not seem any more of a safety hazard than a woman having long or really curly hair.

[Mr.Canada]

And, yes. I remember 9/11. Do you remember how many of the hijackers were wearing traditional Muslim headcoverings? I'll save you the trouble of looking it up. The answer is ZERO.

Moreover, you're committing a logical fallacy with your argument here. While all the terrorists of 9/11 were Muslim that does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists. To give you a different example of your categorical error, consider the following:

All dogs are animals. True.

All animals are dogs. False.

Applied to your argument:

All 9/11 terrorists were Muslim. True.

All Muslims were 9/11 terrorists. False.

I never claimed that all Muslims were terrorists. I have no idea where you got this from.

More to the point, you're trying to prevent future terrorism by targeting Muslims and it is most certainly not the case that all terrorists are Muslim. It's also not the case that banning their perfectly innocuous religious observances (like tradition headcoverings), would make us any safer. In fact, it's more likely to insight violence due to pulling the rug out from under people. Lure them with the promise of liberty and tolerance, then attack their religion when they get here. At best, it's hypocritical.

Many people come to the west to destroy it and our way of life. Which is why they force their women to wear the head and face coverings. Its the Muslim men who force their women to wear these oppressive styles of dress under threat of death. I'm shocked and appalled that you aren't more supportive and against the oppression of women in our society. Honor killings are a real threat here in Canada. They are carried out more and more nowadays...it's really sad that girls are killed because they want to be a normal teenager.

If there has never been an accident due to religious head-scarves, it's hard to see how this could be considered a safety issue. They operated without this ban for decades and did not have a single incident. It's not case-closed. It's a restriction that unfairly impacts one group of people more than any other and in this way produces a religious bias, whether intentional or not.

There have been many injuries due to long hanging hair. In fact I grew up with a girl who had her scalp ripped off by a go cart after her long hair became entangled in the wheels. There is no reason to believe that a long hijab couldn't create a hazard for the wearer. Many women wear the hijab long down the back. It may not have been a problem had they been wearing it short and tucked in.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[Mr.Canada]

One thing that's being ignored is that the Muslims turned to violence to sort out the disagreement. Surely this isn't the most civilized way to go about it. I'm not surprised of people here ignoring the Muslim triggered violence when they don't get their own way.

[jbg]

Please prove this.

The fact that there was a melee over the scarf issue is pretty good proof as to the U.S. As to Canada, as Chretien said, "a proof is a proof".