Scotty Posted January 30, 2012 Report Posted January 30, 2012 And I'm not sure how deportation would result from such a small issue. I would hate to think that a single issue could be politicized in such a way to make that happen - it's unfair. I think it's fair for us as a society to tell newcomers that we have certain standards of behavior, backed up by law, and if their cultural ignorance - er, prejudice, is so deeply rooted they can't abide those standards they have no business in being here. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted January 30, 2012 Report Posted January 30, 2012 However, in my view, immigrants that start riots over not removing a scarf due to safety concerns are not people that I would want in my country. I thought you might feel that way. What do you think a poll taken in Canada would say to that? I'm thinking the majority would agree. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
jbg Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Posted January 31, 2012 However, in my view, immigrants that start riots over not removing a scarf due to safety concerns are not people that I would want in my country. I'm quite sure there's one place I'd want a rioter, whether natural born Americans or immigrants; in jail. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Michael Hardner Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 Maybe the 'facilitator' might point out to the other poster to play the ball instead of attacking the poster. I think it's fair to surface prejudices, but it's bad argument to do so then just walk away. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 I think it's fair for us as a society to tell newcomers that we have certain standards of behavior, backed up by law, and if their cultural ignorance - er, prejudice, is so deeply rooted they can't abide those standards they have no business in being here. The other example I can think of is with turbans and safety issues. These questions have gone through the legal system to resolve them, in the eyes of the law. If you don't comply with such edicts, there are consequences. Deporting someone, though, is out of proportion to the infraction committed. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
The_Squid Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 The other example I can think of is with turbans and safety issues. These questions have gone through the legal system to resolve them, in the eyes of the law. If you don't comply with such edicts, there are consequences. Deporting someone, though, is out of proportion to the infraction committed. That's not why they should be deported.... it's the near-riot they caused. According to park officials, disappointed customers were then offered a refund, and several people proceeded to the park’s main entrance to get back the $20 each member of the group had paid. Then, the Parks Department said, about 20 members of the Muslim American group started fighting among themselves. Peter Tartaglia, the deputy commissioner of the department, said there was pushing and shoving, so some park rangers intervened. One ranger sustained an injured shoulder; another injured a knee. Fifteen people, men and women, were placed under arrest... http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/nyregion/fight-erupts-over-head-scarves-at-playland-park-in-rye.html Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 That's not why they should be deported.... it's the near-riot they caused. It still doesn't seem like much. Let's see - charging them with assault would likely hurt their citizenship chances if they're not already citizens I suppose. Is there anything else we really need to do here ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
The_Squid Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 It still doesn't seem like much. Let's see - charging them with assault would likely hurt their citizenship chances if they're not already citizens I suppose. Is there anything else we really need to do here ? I don't think that deportation would be excessive. If someone comes to this country (hypothetical for Canada, since this took place in the USA) I don't think that we have any obligation to allow them to stay if they have shown that they don't care to follow the laws of their chosen potential homeland. In fact, I would contend that it would be foolish of us to allow someone like that to stay... Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 31, 2012 Report Posted January 31, 2012 I don't think that deportation would be excessive. If someone comes to this country (hypothetical for Canada, since this took place in the USA) I don't think that we have any obligation to allow them to stay if they have shown that they don't care to follow the laws of their chosen potential homeland. In fact, I would contend that it would be foolish of us to allow someone like that to stay... Looking at it more closely, there are already rules around deportation around serious charges, including crimes of violence. wiki So, it seems that this isn't anything but another gawker story for us to gawk at. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Scotty Posted February 1, 2012 Report Posted February 1, 2012 The other example I can think of is with turbans and safety issues. These questions have gone through the legal system to resolve them, in the eyes of the law. If you don't comply with such edicts, there are consequences. Deporting someone, though, is out of proportion to the infraction committed. Why do we refuse to recognize the existence or even the concept of a failed immigrant? We used to, or at least, the system used to quite frequently. In my view the move which shorted the time spent in Canada to attain citizenship to a mere three years was short-sighted and misguided, to say the least. It used to be seven, and ten would have been preferable. Failing that, we ought to be screening these people's attitudes a lot more before ever allowing them to come here. And I don't mean merely for Muslims. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Michael Hardner Posted February 1, 2012 Report Posted February 1, 2012 Why do we refuse to recognize the existence or even the concept of a failed immigrant? We used to, or at least, the system used to quite frequently. In my view the move which shorted the time spent in Canada to attain citizenship to a mere three years was short-sighted and misguided, to say the least. It used to be seven, and ten would have been preferable. Failing that, we ought to be screening these people's attitudes a lot more before ever allowing them to come here. And I don't mean merely for Muslims. How did they decide that back then and how should they? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
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