Time to defund the CBC

[Saipan]

So CBC listeners don't pay taxes?

Yes, all pay and liberals benefit.

[Battletoads]

Yes, all pay and liberals benefit.

Feel free to point out some blatant liberal bias in recent CBC products.

[Smallc]

Then put a revised price on your 'case'. The subsidy now is around $800 million, most of which is TV.

So, and excuse me for a minute but, wth are you talking about? I'm talking about ending the television subsidy. I'm talking about investigating the need for CBC Radio. I'm saying that a case can be made for CBC Radio, because there are places in the far north, and even the north of Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec, that have nothing but CBC Radio. I'm talking about using the money for other productions, no matter which Canadian broadcaster wants to create them. What are you talking about?

[Socialist in Oil Country]

If we gave them more funding their production and programming wouldn't be so brutal

The only shows people watch on CBC any more (based on BBM ratings) are Hockey, news, Dragon's Den and Rick Mercer

We should be funding it WAY more, I wish it were as prominent in this country as the BBC in the UK

[Sandy MacNab]

Then we agree, in a sense. You would agree to personally fund a public broadcaster and I agree that it is OK for my taxes to go, in part, to the CBC.

I don't agree at all. No tax money should go to a politically biased - in the case of the CBC, Liberal - propaganda machine. Pay your taxes, then reach into your wallet if you want to donate personally to the CBC.

[Boges]

Feel free to point out some blatant liberal bias in recent CBC products.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHJGR4i7fhw

You know perhaps you could re-schedule the interview because you can tell he's busy. But why bother right?

[segnosaur]

Yes, all pay and liberals benefit.

Feel free to point out some blatant liberal bias in recent CBC products.

Just out of curiosity, is indication of "liberal bias" really that important? Some of us would feel the same way (that the CBC should be privatized/eliminated/etc.) regardless of any 'bias' that they may show.

And frankly, trying to pick examples of 'bias' is an exercise in cherry picking which is idiotic. Why? A network can post 99 out of 100 news articles with absolutely no bias, but if someone happens to find the one example that IS biased, they may shout "look how unfair they are!" even though the overwhelming number of cases do not point that way.

That said, I myself can identify a few cases where the CBC may have exhibited some amount of bias:

- When the RCMP released a report on the 'success' of the long gun registry, the CBC basically became a parrot, echoing the 'good' in the report. However, even a cursory analysis showed many flaws with its report. A competent investigation would have at least mentioned those. (Note: I have to admit, the CBC was not alone in this regards; the same lack of analysis extended to other media outlets as well. However, your request was to "show liberal bias", not "show where the CBC was alone in its bias".

- When Ann Coulter had her speech at the University of Ottawa cancelled, a CBC blogger did some "investigation" which claimed the organizers were 'wrong' in some of their claims (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside-politics-blog/2010/03/ann-coulters-adventures-in-ottawa-so-what-really-happened-last-night.html) . However, that blogger made many mistakes... she claimed the organizers were 'lying' about police claims, yet later reports showed that indeed the police were quite involved in the decision to cancel the event. Again, even a cursory analysis would have found enough holes to drive a truck through (including claims on travel time to the university, etc.)

Again, those are not necessarily examples of an "overall" liberal bias... They are, however, examples of shoddy journalism that yours and my tax money went to pay for.

Edited August 25, 2011 by segnosaur

[Black Dog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHJGR4i7fhw

You know perhaps you could re-schedule the interview because you can tell he's busy. But why bother right?

Or maybe the mayor-elect should have realized he had an interview scheduled for the same time as his very important high school football practice and had his staff reschedule accordingly.

[Tilter]

So CBC listeners don't pay taxes?

Doesn't hurt the economy a bit---all 4 listeners are stay-at-home seniors so only 4 people don't pay taxes.

[fellowtraveller]

because there are places in the far north, and even the north of Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec, that have nothing but CBC Radio.

then you can easily name one, for the third time.

If they have electricity, northern communities have had satellite TV access for decades and satellite radio access for several years. Most have broadband, which means they have much the same entertainment and information choices that you do.

They are not the ignorant peasants huddled around the campfire hoping for some news of their country that you are dreaming of.

The question is not what I am talking about, but your level of knowledge of the North in 2011. This is not the era of tape delayed CBC rebroadcasts.

[Boges]

Or maybe the mayor-elect should have realized he had an interview scheduled for the same time as his very important high school football practice and had his staff reschedule accordingly.

How about referring to the election as a four year storm moving in? Does that not scream Liberal bias.

[guyser]

How about referring to the election as a four year storm moving in? Does that not scream Liberal bias.

Could be.

Show us where that was said .

[Smallc]

The question is not what I am talking about, but your level of knowledge of the North in 2011. This is not the era of tape delayed CBC rebroadcasts.

I live just below what is considered northern Manitoba. My knowledge is probably a fair bit better than yours. Yes, we have what is almost considered broadband now, and we do have many amenities. We don't have a broad choice in Radio, so I'm sorry, you're wrong when it comes to that. We do get more than CBC, but I've driven places (such as north of Grand Rapids Manitoba...there's also Split Lake, Brochet, to name a few - the same exists across the north) where there is nothing for poor people who can't afford all of the amenities that I can. In other words, you aren't really sure what you're talking about.

All of this, btw, doesn't mean I think that we need CBC Radio, only that there is more of a case for it.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Smallc

[segnosaur]

Re: The CBC interview with Mayor elect Ford of Toronto...

How about referring to the election as a four year storm moving in? Does that not scream Liberal bias.

I listened to that clip... to be honest, I don't really think it is an example of liberal bias. (And remember, this is coming from someone who thinks the CBC should be privatized or eliminated.)

I saw the 'four year storm' as simply a statement that his expected leadership will take a different tone than previous municipal terms. (I'm not from Toronto, but didn't Ford campaign on the subject of "shaking things up"?)

Many of the other things that were talked about in the interview (such as repeated challenges to specify "where will cuts be made") were what I would consider "good journalism". (I would certainly hope that they applied the same resolution when interviewing previous mayors.)

It may have been a bit questionable to call him while he was distracted by his coaching duties, but I can't say for sure without knowing the real circumstances surrounding the interview setup.

[segnosaur]

How about referring to the election as a four year storm moving in? Does that not scream Liberal bias.

Could be.

Show us where that was said .

It was mentioned in the first 10 seconds of the intro.

From the clip:

"The weather in Toronto is stormy today, with heavy winds, thunderstorms, and a 100% of four years of Rob Ford. The Penny pinching councilman stormed the city elections last night when he walked away with nearly half the votes".

Again, nothing that I see as terribly biased. Heck, given his calls to cut costs, calling him "Penny pinching" is something he might almost call a compliment.

[WWWTT]

Here is my take on this subject,three points.

First is that we have a huge neighbour that is a master of propoganda.There must be some kind of counter effort or its bye bye Canada.

Second.As far as comedy goes the CBC has helped nurture some excellent writers,actors and comedians.The CBC has no Canadian rival as far as comedy goes.And on that point it can be argued the CBC is worth every penny,keep the talent rolling.

Third is the business about bias journalism and/or programing.From what I have read this seems to be the most sensitive issue.

In my opinion I believe it is the job of the journalist or interviewer to be in depth almost to the point of intrusive and voice alternative opinions to the interviewed to obtain a braoder perspective.

I do not believe that doing this is in any way partisan-However if the politician/person being interviewed is a conservative,a conservative viewer may assume the journalist /interviewer is biased.And vise versa for liberal or NDP being interviewed and viewed.

I have come to this conclusion after years of observation from interviews of all stripes or political colours.

I still believe that many in the media are biased,some are only better at hiding it than others.But in my opinion the CBC is probably the most balanced broadcaster in Canada.

WWWTT

[segnosaur]

First is that we have a huge neighbour that is a master of propoganda.There must be some kind of counter effort or its bye bye Canada.

You are, of course, making the rather incorrect assumption that the U.S. and its media is some monolithic organization dedicated to "subverting Canada".

The fact is, despite complaints of media consolidation, is far from coherent in any sort of messages. You can find opinions in the U.S. running across a wide political spectrum.

And yes, we may partake in many forms of American entertainment, but frankly I think there are more than enough cultural differences to keep the 2 countries separate.

Second.As far as comedy goes the CBC has helped nurture some excellent writers,actors and comedians.The CBC has no Canadian rival as far as comedy goes.And on that point it can be argued the CBC is worth every penny,keep the talent rolling.

And if nobody ever watches that Comedy?

Of course, you're also making the rather unsupported assumption that without the CBC those comedy writers/actors will be out of work. The fact is, there have been many shows on other networks (Corner Gas, Due South, Red Green, etc.) And if Rick Mercer or the '22 minutes' group wasn't appearing on CBC, there's a good chance they would find a home on either another broadcast network, or on Cable.

Third is the business about bias journalism and/or programing.From what I have read this seems to be the most sensitive issue.

Not necessarily sensitive with me... I'm more concerned with the financial costs.

[segnosaur]

Note: I said I didn't want to play the 'bias' game... but here is an example:

"There is not a great cultural culture, if you allow me the expression, among the Conservatives"

- Daniel Lessard, CBC Radio bureau chief, following a conservative election victory.

(He has since gone on to apologize for the remarks.)

[cybercoma]

Reporters can be fairly autonomous. When someone says, "CBC is a liberal mouthpiece" or something similar, they are suggesting that there is a systemic bias. Comments or article by individual reporters that show bias here and there do not show a systemic bias at the CBC. I'm sure there are instances where individual reporters have shown conservative bias as well. People making the claim that CBC is a biased news source need to show that their skewness is endemic.

[WWWTT]

You are, of course, making the rather incorrect assumption that the U.S. and its media is some monolithic organization dedicated to "subverting Canada".

Oh I'm sorry,I forgot how much American programing helps to educate its viewers about Canada.

And yes, we may partake in many forms of American entertainment, but frankly I think there are more than enough cultural differences to keep the 2 countries separate.

Thanks to the CBC.

Of course, you're also making the rather unsupported assumption that without the CBC those comedy writers/actors will be out of work. The fact is, there have been many shows on other networks (Corner Gas, Due South, Red Green, etc.) And if Rick Mercer or the '22 minutes' group wasn't appearing on CBC, there's a good chance they would find a home on either another broadcast network, or on Cable.

Actually I have talked with Bruce McCulloch and Kevin McDonald about "The kids in the hall" back in the mid 90's at their favorite resturaunt in downtown Toronto.I believe they would disagree with you.

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

Oh! Here, let me get that for you.

*bends down, fakes picking something up and mimes dusting it off*

You seem to have dropped those names.

[segnosaur]

You are, of course, making the rather incorrect assumption that the U.S. and its media is some monolithic organization dedicated to "subverting Canada".

Oh I'm sorry,I forgot how much American programing helps to educate its viewers about Canada.

We already have something that helps educate Canadians about Canada... its called school. Perhaps you might have heard of it.

(And here's a little hint... fictional shows appearing on networks are not "educating viewers about Canada (or any country really)". They are entertainment.

And yes, we may partake in many forms of American entertainment, but frankly I think there are more than enough cultural differences to keep the 2 countries separate.

Thanks to the CBC.

No, thanks to the various cultural traditions, both shared among all Canadians and unique amongst all sub-groups, that manages to keep us distinct.

Heck, look at the U.S.... an urban New Yorker is about as different from a rural Alabama resident as they are from a Torontonian. Both the New Yorker and Alabamian even live in the same country, yet magically they've managed to retain their own sub-culture.

Actually I have talked with Bruce McCulloch and Kevin McDonald about "The kids in the hall" back in the mid 90's at their favorite resturaunt in downtown Toronto.I believe they would disagree with you.

You see, what you have done is engaged in a false appeal from authority. McCulloch and McDonald may be fine comedic talents, but there is no reason to believe they would have any more knowledge about history, etc. than others.

Of course, I could point out that:

- The comedy network (the one most likely to have hosted their show) didn't even exist in the mid-90s (Launched in 1997)

- Ironic that they would claim that their show wouldn't get picked up by cable, considering their show was carried on HBO in the US

- There show, while produced in Canada, did very little to "illustrate Canada". Yes it was good sketch comedy, but for most of the sketches people probably couldn't tell if it was produced in the U.S. or Canada. Yet early on you talked about CBC "educating us about Canada"... well, where was the education there?

[segnosaur]

Oh! Here, let me get that for you.

*bends down, fakes picking something up and mimes dusting it off*

You seem to have dropped those names.

Hey, maybe with that ability to mime things, you can get a show on CBC TV.

[fellowtraveller]

I live just below what is considered northern Manitoba. My knowledge is probably a fair bit better than yours. Yes, we have what is almost considered broadband now, and we do have many amenities. We don't have a broad choice in Radio, so I'm sorry, you're wrong when it comes to that. We do get more than CBC, but I've driven places (such as north of Grand Rapids Manitoba...there's also Split Lake, Brochet, to name a few - the same exists across the north) where there is nothing for poor people who can't afford all of the amenities that I can. In other words, you aren't really sure what you're talking about.

All of this, btw, doesn't mean I think that we need CBC Radio, only that there is more of a case for it.

I've lived much of my adult life North of 60 or nearly so, so I have no doubt about what is happening in the north. You have broadband but somehow cannot get streaming audio by the hundreds/thousands of stations? Is their some kind of filter in Manitoba on this? No satellite radio available?

Andf let us talk money then: your contention is to provide a full national network so as to provide a warm and fuzzy feeling to a few remote communities with very, very few people so they can hear Rex Murphy over the air? Wouldn't it cost a fraction of 1% of that scheme to just provide those communities with braodband access and open the world to them?

[Smallc]

I've lived much of my adult life North of 60 or nearly so, so I have no doubt about what is happening in the north. You have broadband but somehow cannot get streaming audio by the hundreds/thousands of stations? Is their some kind of filter in Manitoba on this? No satellite radio available?

I said poor people, not me. My family does rather well.