Time to defund the CBC

[Boges]

I think it's important for them to be able to quickly and efficiently make whatever decisions they need to make without it turning into a bureaucratized affair tangled in red-tape and political wrangling.

I'm pretty sure that's what they already are. Like any government organization they have to spend every red cent of that 1.1 billion or they may never see it again. Why else would they be crying poor in regards to switching from analog to digital. Something every other private broadcaster has already done.

BTW why is it that something really important like a hospital or the military is forced to show their books to the public but the CBC isn't. I'm entitled to know what the CEO of Hydro One or what the Prime Minister makes but not Peter Mansbridge? They both get their pay from the same taxpayer.

[Zachary Young]

Having the government control the media - fully or in part - is a terrible idea. The CBC should be privatized immediately. The programming on it is terrible anyway. Especially 'The Hour'. That has to be the worst show ever made.

[Boges]

Having the government control the media - fully or in part - is a terrible idea. The CBC should be privatized immediately. The programming on it is terrible anyway. Especially 'The Hour'. That has to be the worst show ever made.

Yeah but Strombo is cool and represents all Canadians man!

BTW the government doesn't have control over the CBC. That's the point. So it's not really a state broadcaster in the typical sense of the word.

It's more of a freeloading organization that takes government money, is accountable to no one and doesn't have to prove that money is going towards fulfilling its mandate (at least yet).

[Zachary Young]

What do you mean the government doesn't control the CBC? It's a crown corporation. Who controls it if not the state?

[Smallc]

What do you mean the government doesn't control the CBC? It's a crown corporation. Who controls it if not the state?

CBC controls itself. As you said, it's a Crown Corporation.

[Boges]

What do you mean the government doesn't control the CBC? It's a crown corporation. Who controls it if not the state?

How can the government control it if it can't even force them to release the figured on how they spend their money?

Apparently this whole WhateverCommonwealthNation-BC works well in the UK but it's pretty much the only game in town unless you get Satellite ditto with Jamaica. Which system would you prefer?

As a side, Don't you guise find it hilarious that every episode of Marketplace always ends the same way. After they reveal the scam someone is running and they spend all this money to track them down either to be lied to or ignored in those always hilarious "don't point the camera at me" moments. They always go to the government. Almost without fail.

"Minister X why aren't you protecting Citizen Y from Scam Z." Erica Johnson is pretty cute but I want to punch her square in the face every time I see her act all indignant to some government (Usually from the CPC) official.

Marketplace is pretty good evidence that the CBC is in favour of more government control of our lives not less.

If the CBC was a real Government Organization, Minister X would be able to say. "Shut that effing camera off or we're cutting your funding tomorrow"

Edited September 16, 2011 by Boges

[g_bambino]

"Minister X why aren't you protecting Citizen Y from Scam Z."

It's a pretty valid question directed at a not unreasonable individual, given that scamming people out of money is illegal.

If the CBC was a real Government Organization, Minister X would be able to say. "Shut that effing camera off or we're cutting your funding tomorrow"

Or the minister could just say "shut that effing camera off". Or, alternately, not agree to an interview.

You make a very weak argument.

[g_bambino]

What do you mean the government doesn't control the CBC? It's a crown corporation.

The government has little control over the CBC. The CBC is established through statute law; it is more a creature of parliament than the Cabinet, though the CBC's president is appointed by Order-in-Council.

[affirm]

Edited September 16, 2011 by g_bambino

[Zachary Young]

This is absurd. If the government does not control the CBC then some non government organization must control it. So go ahead, name the organization. United Church of Canada? MENNONITES??!?!?

Clearly, the CBC, as a crown corporation, is owned, operated and controlled by the government. It is the government.

[g_bambino]

If the government does not control the CBC then some non government organization must control it.

How do you come to that conclusion? The CBC is ultimately controlled by parliament: parliament created it, and parliament funds it, and the president is appointed by the Governor-General-in-Council on the advice of the prime minister who is accountable to parliament; but, the CBC thereafter runs itself.

Clearly, the CBC, as a crown corporation, is owned, operated and controlled by the government.

No, it is owned by the Crown. The Crown is not just the government.

[Zachary Young]

Anyway, this is all semantics. The CBC should be auctioned off immediately. The government has no business influencing, owning, controlling or censoring media. We should also cease regulation of the airwaves. A truly free media means Global should be able to say whatever it wants without the government fining them.

[Bob]

CBC controls itself. As you said, it's a Crown Corporation.

Essentially, an organization that is unaccountable to the very people that fund it - the taxpayers.

[g_bambino]

Anyway, this is all semantics.

Translation: I don't like the facts so I'll ignore them and carry on as before.

[g_bambino]

Essentially, an organization that is unaccountable to the very people that fund it - the taxpayers.

It is accountable to parliament.

[Bob]

It is accountable to parliament.

Not really.

[Bob]

Anyway, this is all semantics. The CBC should be auctioned off immediately. The government has no business influencing, owning, controlling or censoring media. We should also cease regulation of the airwaves. A truly free media means Global should be able to say whatever it wants without the government fining them.

I agree 100%. Sell of the CBC's assets and let it stand on its own two feet, and abolish the CRTC.

[bloodyminded]

Translation: I don't like the facts so I'll ignore them and carry on as before.

Exactly. Debating whether or not some monolithic entity called "the Government...controls the CBC" or not is hardly semantics.

It's an argument based on a huge misunderstanding of what "the government" actually is...but it's not semantics.

What people often fail to understand is that public broadcasters generally are mandated, as a central premise, not to be beholden to government.

Can anyone really argue with a straight face that CBC news, radio or television, is more sycophantic and less combative than the private networks?

I'm just not seeing it.

And such a claim demands good evidence, not shouts about "the Government!"

(Analogously, many people think the Queen is a tyrannical part of Canadian government, when in fact one of the points is to avoid potential (and partisan) tyranny.)

I hasten to add that I'm making no claims specifically about the CBC itself; I'm only objecting to the idea that a public broadcaster is part of "the government," with the connotations that immediately arise in using that word.

Edited September 16, 2011 by bloodyminded

[g_bambino]

Not really.

Yeah, really.

[Boges]

BM are you claiming that the CBC has no agenda and is truly an unbiased news source? I'd sorta need evidence to support that theory.

Being 100% unbiased is next to impossible. Again I doubt many here really object to the political slant the CBC takes. Take into account who watch the several.

It's very difficult to provide satisfactory evidence to prove a Liberal bias.

Anyone can give examples of how they believe the CBC display their Liberal bias.

- I point to them not naming the war criminals that the government of Canada wants to find and deport.

- The election widget that more times than not recommended you vote Liberal.

- CBC Radio in Toronto's treatment of Mayor Rob Ford.

- The fact Strombo still has a show. Unless you think he's "dreamy" why would you watch that show?

- Wall to wall coverage of Jack Layton's death. (I know other network covered the issue but not to the extent as the CBC) They actually had a pundit call Ezra Levant disgusting for wondering why the CBC covered the death so much.

- After the Olso bombing/shooting they ran a story asking why right-wing extremism is making a comeback in Europe. (Really because of one guy? Where are all the stories about how Islam is taking over Europe?)

Now I'm sure you'll try to multi-quote me refuting each of those points. Again those are just examples why I believe there is a deep Liberal bias. I've seen Micheal Coren talk about the CBC and say that there are just some issues that are never discussed at the CBC, I've heard him say that people get blackballed on the CBC for their political views. I can't prove it these are just anecdotes.

I'm just a messageboarder I really don't want to do research to prove my thesis here. Unless I perhaps get given a gumint grant.

But again the CBC's political bias isn't the main issue. Many people have said they just don't like the fact that 1.1 billion is given to this organization and they refuse to open their books.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Boges

[g_bambino]

Exactly. Debating whether or not some monolithic entity called "the Government...controls the CBC" or not is hardly semantics.

It's an argument based on a huge misunderstanding of what "the government" actually is...but it's not semantics.

And such a claim demands good evidence, not shouts about "the Government!"

There's definitely a certain conspiratorial tone to all the frothing - usually coming from occupants of the pretty far right, libertarian types - about the CBC being a mouthpiece of The Government. And, like a lot of conspiracy theorists who're driven by emotion rather than fact-based logic, they end up throwing out such wild, unsupported claims that they end up contradicting themselves. They shout: "The CBC is institutionally lefty, endlessly broadcasting praises, subtle and overt, for Trudeau and multiculturalism!" and, at the same time, "the CBC is the propaganda outlet of The Government!" Yet, putting aside the fact that the government doesn't control the CBC beyond appointing its president, the party that presently forms the government is the Conservative Party of Canada. Is the Conservative Cabinet really commanding the CBC to spout ceaseless adulation for a former leader of the Liberal Party and his policies? What do the conspiracists think is Harper's reasoning for that?

[Boges]

There's definitely a certain conspiratorial tone to all the frothing - usually coming from occupants of the pretty far right, libertarian types - about the CBC being a mouthpiece of The Government. And, like a lot of conspiracy theorists who're driven by emotion rather than fact-based logic, they end up throwing out such wild, unsupported claims that they end up contradicting themselves. They shout: "The CBC is institutionally lefty, endlessly broadcasting praises, subtle and overt, for Trudeau and multiculturalism!" and, at the same time, "the CBC is the propaganda outlet of The Government!" Yet, putting aside the fact that the government doesn't control the CBC beyond appointing its president, the party that presently forms the government is the Conservative Party of Canada. Is the Conservative Cabinet really commanding the CBC to spout ceaseless adulation for a former leader of the Liberal Party and his policies? What do the conspiracists think is Harper's reasoning for that?

Who here other than perhaps Zachery is saying the CBC is the mouthpiece of the government?

[g_bambino]

Who here other than perhaps Zachery is saying the CBC is the mouthpiece of the government?

Isn't Zachary enough? Regardless, there's also the person who "agrees 100%" with Zachary: Bob, for one. There's also more than enough comments in this thread about the CBC being a liberal (or Liberal) mouthpiece, which is still an odd thing to believe when the CBC has always received its funding from and been accountable to parliament, even when it's been dominated by conservatives, such as... Well, right now.

[sp]

Edited September 16, 2011 by g_bambino

[Boges]

which is still an odd thing to believe when the CBC has always received its funding from and been accountable to parliament, even when it's been dominated by conservatives, such as... Well, right now.

[sp]

I 100% agree. There's no evidence that the government runs the CBC, infact the evidence is to the contrary. But it clearly funds a majority of it.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Boges

[Zachary Young]

The CBC is a crown corporation. It's employees are government employees. If they run the show, then clearly it is run by the government. I think what you guys are trying to say is that the CBC is autonomous from the PMO or Parliament. Which may or may not be true, I have no perspective on this matter, but it's just silly to say that a crown corporation is not run by the government. It is part of the government.

[g_bambino]

The CBC is a crown corporation. It's employees are government employees. If they run the show, then clearly it is run by the government.

Perhaps some difficulty is arising here from the definition of the term "government". The Crown is the ultimate authority of governance in the country, sure. But, since Canada is a constitutional monarchy, the Crown is the keystone of a construct in which its power is shared and exercised by multiple institutions: the courts (the Queen-on-the-Bench), parliament (the Queen-in-Parliament), and the government (the Queen-in-Council).

The only influence the Governor-General-in-Council (read: the government) has over the CBC is the appointment of the president through Order-in-Council. Otherwise, it is parliament - the Queen, House of Commons, and Senate together - that has more influence over the CBC; the CBC was created by and is still bound by statute law passed by parliament, the CBC receives its funding annually from parliament, and it is thus to parliament that the CBC is accountable.

PMO staffers are government employees. CBC producers are not.

[c/e]

Edited September 16, 2011 by g_bambino