New leader of the NDP - A Sepratist?

[Peter F]

You talk of what you think people SHOULD do! I speak of what they WOULD do! When people are revved up emotionally being calm and rational goes out the window.

So Quebecers should not get emotional since the rest of the country will! Canadians can't help themselves. So Quebecers should pick up the slack. ... well, thats what should happen.

[Remiel]

How about we just leave and let you ignorant eastern slithering misfits freeze in the dark?

How long HAVE yhou been sucking the welfar tit anyway?

Not that you are here anymore, but the East gets most of its oil from overseas. Most of the oil from the West goes to the States.

[Remiel]

So Quebecers should not get emotional since the rest of the country will! Canadians can't help themselves. So Quebecers should pick up the slack. ... well, thats what should happen.

Who exactly would Quebec go to to plead its case for all of Northern Quebec not staying part of Canada? The UN? The same UN that has pretty much all signed the Declaration of Rights of Indigenous Peoples? The same peoples who live in Northern Quebec?

It does not really matter though, I suppose, at the end of the day who gets emotional. That is what we have international organizations for these days. And on the debt and territory, I doubt they would come down on Quebecs side.

[wyly]

I'm not denying what you're saying about how there's nothing to be gained by being vengeful. That's exactly what lawyers tell their clients when in the middle of a divorce negotiation. I'm not denying that what you describe would be for the best!

I'm stating what I believe to be the reaction of the rest of Canada! Do you believe that I'm wrong? The ruling party at the time would be the one representing the rest of Canada at the negotiations. Do you really think they would retain power the following election if people thought they were "nice" to Quebec?

You talk of what you think people SHOULD do! I speak of what they WOULD do! When people are revved up emotionally being calm and rational goes out the window.

it'll be a long process and the emotional bit will fade and just as in any divorce reality sets in cooler heads will prevail...then the civil servants, lawyers and politicians will do what they're paid to do and get on with rational negotiations...

[Jack Weber]

I hope it gave you a thrill, twerp.

Nope...

Men claiming "culture" while getting in touch with their feminine side (Like wearing a skirt) is'nt thrilling...

It's just a sign of weakness...

Keep "reaching for the rainbow",however...

[Jack Weber]

How about we just leave and let you ignorant eastern slithering misfits freeze in the dark?

How long HAVE yhou been sucking the welfar tit anyway?

Never...

This proud Eastern Bastard lives near the Sir Adam Beck generating station...Niagara Falls...

Just pump the oil and make us some money...That is all....

[wyly]

The NDP should be embarassed. Seperatism does not work - hard core communism does not work - soft porn socialism does not work - Why for heavens sake do these people hold ideas that have been historically proven to NOT WORK?

ya you're right lets toss out those socialist concepts like medicare and pension plans...or better yet let's do it on voluntary basis you go first Oleg, pay for own medical care return your pension cheques...

[CPCFTW]

ya you're right lets toss out those socialist concepts like medicare and pension plans...or better yet let's do it on voluntary basis you go first Oleg, pay for own medical care return your pension cheques...

Or let's just keep them until we're bankrupt like greece, portugal, italy, USA, etc. By the time we are bankrupt we will probably be retired so it will just be our kids who have to pay off the debts of our greedy, entitled, socialist society! Let's leave them a bright future of crippling debt! They won't mind because we'll have saved them some trees to hug!

Edited August 7, 2011 by CPCFTW

[Wild Bill]

So Quebecers should not get emotional since the rest of the country will! Canadians can't help themselves. So Quebecers should pick up the slack. ... well, thats what should happen.

Quebecers ARE emotional! Separatism is emotional by definition! It's all about having your own country, your own sense of nationalist pride, of tribalism in the extreme.

Is it your position that Quebecers have coldly and logically decided that separation would be a big improvement to their ECONOMIC well-being?

The whole issue is emotional. If Quebec separates that will have been an emotional decision. The reaction from the rest of Canada will be in the same vein. It's just human nature.

[punked]

Or let's just keep them until we're bankrupt like greece, portugal, italy, USA, etc. By the time we are bankrupt we will probably be retired so it will just be our kids who have to pay off the debts of our greedy, entitled, socialist society! Let's leave them a bright future of crippling debt! They won't mind because we'll have saved them some trees to hug!

So you think countries with out Medicare and Pension plans are better off? Yah have fun living in Somalia or Zimbabwe ok? I'll stay in this country with its AAA credit rating.

Edited August 7, 2011 by punked

[Oleg Bach]

ya you're right lets toss out those socialist concepts like medicare and pension plans...or better yet let's do it on voluntary basis you go first Oleg, pay for own medical care return your pension cheques...

No there is a place for a moderate and centralist type of socialism in every nation - It's called nationhood...or family. - as for the medical card - I can go the rest of my life without seeing a doctor - as for the "cheaques' - it is not enough to live but just enough to keep you addicted to the money god while seperating you from the real sustainer in life called Faith>

Christianity was the basis for western socialism "sell all you have and put the money in a common purse so all can come and take when needed" to para phrase....todays socialists are an unholy bunch - they force charity - and charity by force is not true beneovolence.

[Peter F]

Quebecers ARE emotional! Separatism is emotional by definition! It's all about having your own country, your own sense of nationalist pride, of tribalism in the extreme.

Is it your position that Quebecers have coldly and logically decided that separation would be a big improvement to their ECONOMIC well-being?

The whole issue is emotional. If Quebec separates that will have been an emotional decision. The reaction from the rest of Canada will be in the same vein. It's just human nature.

I agree with you the whole thing is an emotional issue not an economic one. Thats why it never goes away.

But I was pointing out the two-faced silliness of the poster I was replying to. He was claiming that Canadians will have an emotional reaction to a seperate Quebec therefore Quebecers better not get emotional.

[jbg]

The Clarity Act serves the very purpose of forcing a province to remain in Canada. It manages to impose conditions that not only aren't revealed, but don't even actually exist.

How can a federation exist with "easy in, easy out"? Why wouldn't Saskatchewan, for example, be a loyal participant until oil is discovered, then want out?

[jbg]

Wow you really don't know how Canada works. Canada is not a Federation like the states it is a Confederation JUST LIKE THE EUROPEAN UNION.

Let's see how long the EU lasts once Greece, Portugal, Spain or Ireland goes seriously on the fritz.

[punked]

Let's see how long the EU lasts once Greece, Portugal, Spain or Ireland goes seriously on the fritz.

My point was that the poster who was posting doesn't even know what type of Government Canada is, he is clearly uneducated and has decided Canada is just mini-America which it isn't. I don't think the EU confederation will stick together either, I do however think the Canadian one will as long as English Canada stops trying tell French Canada they are allowed to have who they voted for rep them because Conservatives don't like when non Conservatives win.

[punked]

How can a federation exist with "easy in, easy out"? Why wouldn't Saskatchewan, for example, be a loyal participant until oil is discovered, then want out?

Again not a Federation remember CONFEDERATION July 1, 1867? We are a confederation.

Saskatchewan can leave if they want to. However they would have to pay Canada back for the railroad they build, the oil and gas wells they drilled, the power lines they laid, Etc. It might take them 100 years to pay off such debts going back 250 years. Quebec the same thing.

In fact Harper in 2000 spoke of Alberta separating if they did not get the powers they wanted because he did not like the rules that the Confederation we have. Yes that Harper PM Harper is a bit of separatist himself. He certainly is a hypocrite.

Edited August 9, 2011 by punked

[CPCFTW]

My point was that the poster who was posting doesn't even know what type of Government Canada is, he is clearly uneducated and has decided Canada is just mini-America which it isn't. I don't think the EU confederation will stick together either, I do however think the Canadian one will as long as English Canada stops trying tell French Canada they are allowed to have who they voted for rep them because Conservatives don't like when non Conservatives win.

Your point is retarded. The provinces have no history as countries whereas the EU consists of countries with centuries or millennia of history. How did I equate Canada to the US? I just said it's retarded to compare Canada to the EU, or Quebec's situation to an EU member country.

You must be uneducated to jump to the sorts of conclusions that you do.

Edited August 9, 2011 by CPCFTW

[cybercoma]

An interesting editorial piece by University of Ottawa Political Science Professor Claude Denis.

"we are now seeing that the Bloc has also enabled non-Quebecers to ignore Quebec, to treat it as a non-entity when it comes to governing Canada"

Read the full article: http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1036360

Edited August 9, 2011 by cybercoma

[jacee]

Now Saskatchewan wants to separate? Lol. It does get ridiculous when people start overreacting so hilariously to Quebec's differences. C'est la vie ... this is Canada ... a test of national biculturalism ... and it seems to me the west is failing miserably. However the non-Quebec East is culpable too for not consistently letting Quebecers know how important they are to Canada. All they hear are the angry loud voices of the western uniculturists. It was a surprise to them that so many Anglo and Allophones hopped onto buses to go to Quebec to say "We want Quebec IN" during the last referendum. It shouldn't be that way. They should always know that the majority of Canadians feel "My Canada includes Quebec".

The business of Nycole Turmel is a tempest in a teapot. Of course there are former Bloc members and/or separatists in Parliament. That's where we want them. The donut heads who scream about it have a very limited understanding of how learning, cooperation and progress occur.

Quebec is a challenge ... but that's Canada!

LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!!

LOL

Edited August 9, 2011 by jacee

[Army Guy]

The other thing you don't understand is that Quebec does not exactly hold a lot of power in the event of separation. They have a massive provincial debt of over 120 billion, and a provincial budget deficit of around 4.2bil even after receiving almost 8bil in transfer payments, they have an aging population with not much growth. They would have no army, they would have no transfer payments, they would likely have junk bond rated debt after taking on their portion of Canada's debt. They would have absolutely no negotiating power.

Here is a what if.....What if France decided to back an independent Quebec, I know this problem has come up more than once during discussions and training secesions within the military....So what if France agreed to the new transfer payments, provide an french injection to their population, provide military assistance etc etc....I mean France has always held a bond with Quebec, i mean why would france pass up the oportunity, to increase it's countries size by what 3 or 4 fold, a chance at Quebecs resources, more access to the Atlantic ocean market....plug directly into North American market....I mean come on....but like i said it's a what if...

[M.Dancer]

Here is a what if.....What if France decided to back an independent Quebec, ....

They would surrender.

[punked]

Your point is retarded. The provinces have no history as countries whereas the EU consists of countries with centuries or millennia of history. How did I equate Canada to the US? I just said it's retarded to compare Canada to the EU, or Quebec's situation to an EU member country.

You must be uneducated to jump to the sorts of conclusions that you do.

Again there are a very few Confederations in the world. The EU is one and Canada is another and there are really only a few other ones. Just because you don't understand the system that was entered into when Confederation came into being isn't my fault. It is yours. Happy readings friend.

Edited August 9, 2011 by punked

[jbg]

Again there are a very few Confederations in the world. The EU is one and Canada is another and there are really only a few other ones. Just because you don't understand the system that was entered into when Confederation came into being isn't my fault. It is yours. Happy readings friend.

In theory the idea of a Confederation is fine. In practice it's unworkable. That's why I don't believe that any part of Canada can truly secede. That's why I think the EU basically dies aborning. The EU is formed based on countries with little or nothing in common except borders. Canada is different. Even Quebec has large English-speaking populations whose rights need protecting. And similarly, French populations in the ROC that need protecting. The EU is powerless to protect minority rights in its member countries.

The one thing the EU does have going for it that Canada does not is the relative lack of a democratic tradition in most of their member countries. Though the coutnries have "free" electins, they are of proportional representation governments. In practice their governments are coalitions that differ little from one government to another. THe people there rarely resist what the leaders want. Can you see Canada "confederating" with the U.S. for example?

[M.Dancer]

In theory the idea of a Confederation is fine. In practice it's unworkable.

Ummm..in practice it has been working for 144 years...

[cybercoma]

People that don't think Canada is a confederation have absolutely no understanding that the BNA was built upon the idea that the provinces were independent colonies. Even as others joined over the years, they still considered themselves to have some measure of independence under the confederation. Even challenges to the British Privy Council continued to treat the provinces as being mostly autonomous under confederation, mostly reducing federal powers at every turn. This idea of a single Canadian nationalism was a reaction to Quebec nationalism and is only a few decades old. Even during the constitution talks with Trudeau, you can see how the provinces believed they were mostly independent and that was only 30 years ago.