Are cannabis laws going in the wrong direction

[bush_cheney2004]

We were alcoholics long before FDR lifted prohibition in the United States. Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking. And given the historiography, alcohol consumption was much greater in the 19th century and prior than it is today.

Agreed...prohibition/repeal in Canada had little to do with an American president. Canadian provinces and federal government moved on alcohol (and cannabis) years before the US.

[Tilter]

Its questionable to say they take any drugs or dealers off the streets at all. The problem of course is you keep bumping into the economics of supply and demand. Enforcement drives up the prices, and the increase in prices attracts new dealers and new suppliers.

The war on drugs has actually been a massive BOON for dealers. Without criminalization they would have had to go and get real jobs!

They do take drugs off the street which makes the price higher which prevents some 10 & 12-year-olds from buying as much.

[TwoDucks]

They do take drugs off the street which makes the price higher which prevents some 10 & 12-year-olds from buying as much.

You know what would do so just as effectively and at a profit for the government though? Taxation and regulation.

[Guest American Woman]

They do take drugs off the street which makes the price higher which prevents some 10 & 12-year-olds from buying as much.

Which was my point.

[Scotty]

Its questionable to say they take any drugs or dealers off the streets at all. The problem of course is you keep bumping into the economics of supply and demand. Enforcement drives up the prices, and the increase in prices attracts new dealers and new suppliers.

The war on drugs has actually been a massive BOON for dealers. Without criminalization they would have had to go and get real jobs!

Wars that are fought with half measures are generally losing efforts. If you really wanted to get rid of drugs you'd simply shoot all the dealers and smugglers like they do in Singapore. Which, as far as I'm concerned, wouldn't be a bad idea as long we had absolute proof.

[eyeball]

Wars that are fought with half measures are generally losing efforts. If you really wanted to get rid of drugs you'd simply shoot all the dealers and smugglers like they do in Singapore. Which, as far as I'm concerned, wouldn't be a bad idea as long we had absolute proof.

Notice in Singapore they lump their boozers in with their druggies. Obviously the government there realizes if you want to send your people a message about how wrong and evil it is to unwind at the end of the day it better be consistent.

You have to stop the demand to do anything about the supply. Like going after Johns to put hookers out of business you have to go after drug users to put drug dealers out of business.

Your way is the ass-backwards approach but OTOH it will ensure a constant state of war exists which is good because that serves to keep the crime rate up which is about all the right-wing has to keep it's electoral prospects up.

[Sir Bandelot]

In Singapore you can go to jail for 3 months, just for spitting on the ground! That is the world Scotty wants us to live in. The posters views are completely inflammatory, and should be disregarded as long as they remain such.

[Oleg Bach]

Once again you manage to pretty much miss the boat. You most certainly can eat it, many many people do just that. As for it not being attractive, thats your opinion, once again many would disagree with you. How about this, you don't think it looks nice?

Bonsai

You mention good opiates. Are you kidding? Opiates are horrible. Highly addictive and in many cases quite deadly, where do you think Heroin comes from? You really have some very very strange and actually very false opinions regarding this subject.

If I was a dying old man - which I am not - I would rather have opiates than that stupid paranoid weed that makes you uncomfortable - especially if you are intelligent and aware --------frankly smoking pot and the law around it are the least of our problems. IT is an non-starter and a non-issue.

[Oleg Bach]

Daddy says no dope for you! Find a girl friend and get some of that natural pleasure...there are plenty of wonderful things in the world that make you feel good "high" - than huffing on some genetically altered plant. The supply that is now controlled by crimminals...who really don't care if you live or die - In fact the more stupid you are from pot the more they like it.

[Oleg Bach]

It does alter your life. This interferance with clear thinking and your energy level from the drop in blood sugar is not a good thing.. I smoked pot at 16 ---I smoked in the morning - afternoon and at night - I smoked for 35 years - If I could go back in time I would never touch the shit..when I see a young person that is a chronic pot head, it makes me sad..to know that they are not functioning at their full potential - and that they will never reach their goals or accomplish their dreams...It makes you dumb...and creates a dream like state where you believe all is well - as your world rots around you and you do not notice.

[WWWTT]

It does alter your life. This interferance with clear thinking and your energy level from the drop in blood sugar is not a good thing.. I smoked pot at 16 ---I smoked in the morning - afternoon and at night - I smoked for 35 years - If I could go back in time I would never touch the shit..when I see a young person that is a chronic pot head, it makes me sad..to know that they are not functioning at their full potential - and that they will never reach their goals or accomplish their dreams...It makes you dumb...and creates a dream like state where you believe all is well - as your world rots around you and you do not notice.

It all makes sence now.

WWWTT

[Oleg Bach]

It all makes sence now.

WWWTT

You are making fun of me...My rule is there is nothing wrong with altering your perception for re-creational purpose..There is a time and purpose for everthing - but not ALL the time. How do you think I got this old? It was not by being a daily user of drugs or alcohol...You must have sober days to build character. Have you ever wondered why the old winos in the park behave like they were all 17 years old? It is because they have been drunk since they were seventeen and did not develope...

The dynamics are lessened with the daily use of drugs and booze...You must have ups and downs in life to stimulate personal growth...if you are high all the time - Your life becomes hazy and very lineare...no ups and downs and no real change in mood or general perception - hence...you do not develope...You stay the same because you are drugged.

[WWWTT]

You are making fun of me...

Am I?

You sound like someone who could not control an addiction for a long time and in turn instead of blaming yourself you blame the thing you were addicted too!

The same line of thinking is consistent with spouse abuse among others.

WWWTT

[Scotty]

Notice in Singapore they lump their boozers in with their druggies. Obviously the government there realizes if you want to send your people a message about how wrong and evil it is to unwind at the end of the day it better be consistent.

You have to stop the demand to do anything about the supply. Like going after Johns to put hookers out of business you have to go after drug users to put drug dealers out of business.

Your way is the ass-backwards approach but OTOH it will ensure a constant state of war exists which is good because that serves to keep the crime rate up which is about all the right-wing has to keep it's electoral prospects up.

I wasn't aware Singapore executed bartenders.

You are never going to eliminate demand.

And you don't know what 'my way' is.

[Scotty]

In Singapore you can go to jail for 3 months, just for spitting on the ground! That is the world Scotty wants us to live in. The posters views are completely inflammatory, and should be disregarded as long as they remain such.

You don't actually understand English very well, do you?

[Sir Bandelot]

You are making fun of me...My rule is there is nothing wrong with altering your perception for re-creational purpose..There is a time and purpose for everthing - but not ALL the time. How do you think I got this old? It was not by being a daily user of drugs or alcohol...You must have sober days to build character. Have you ever wondered why the old winos in the park behave like they were all 17 years old? It is because they have been drunk since they were seventeen and did not develope...

The dynamics are lessened with the daily use of drugs and booze...You must have ups and downs in life to stimulate personal growth...if you are high all the time - Your life becomes hazy and very lineare...no ups and downs and no real change in mood or general perception - hence...you do not develope...You stay the same because you are drugged.

Even if it goes against what we personally believe, even if it is harmful to the individual themselves when they take it, the question is do they deserve incarceration for making those mistakes? Smokers do that now, boozers can do that now. And when denied, the pathetic addict resorts to something even more harmful to themselves. We see how natives or any kids in remote areas resort to sniffing gasoline or spray paint to get high. Why? Who knows. Boredom, mental anguish, depression. That is beside the point. I think the idea should be to put emphasis on harm reduction.

And remember, everyone needs a break from the stress of living. Some have a drink or three on a Friday night. Some want to spark up a joint. Let them have their clean weed, and offer alternatives to get them off it. Fight a war on drugs, or any substance abuse by giving youth something better to do. Leave prison for the real bad boys, those who want to hurt others.

[Oleg Bach]

We don't need cannabis laws anymore than you really need a marriige licence to have children - If you want to smoke - smoke - if you do not want to don't - in other words shut up and find something more important to occupy you time with other than the right to get high or drunk.

[ReeferMadness]

Prohibition laws are just plain asinine. You have half the population imposing its moral beliefs on the other half. The only winners are organized crime and the policing/prison industry. The laws don't protect kids. They don't protect anyone. All they do is criminalize people for wanting to experiment.

[cybercoma]

Prohibition laws are just plain asinine. You have half the population imposing its moral beliefs on the other half. The only winners are organized crime and the policing/prison industry. The laws don't protect kids. They don't protect anyone. All they do is criminalize people for wanting to experiment.

And who has friends making money in the policing/prison industry...... hmmmm

[CitizenX]

I just love this video, What a JOKE. In a YouTube-sponsored poll and interview where marijuana was the #1 issue. As expected, the PM rehashed the same old tired arguments in defense of his destructive cannabis policies.

The question: The majority of Canadians when polled say they believe marijuana should be legal for adults and taxed like alcohol.Why don’t you end the war on drugs and focus on violent criminals.

1)He hasn’t seen this particular poll?

a)So here it is a few

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/1689/canadians_support_marijuana_legalization/

Polling Data (06/28/07) - Canadians Support Marijuana Legalization

Do you support or oppose the legalization of each of the following drugs?

Marijuana Support = 55% Oppose = 41%

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/43593/half-of-canadians-support-the-legalization-of-marijuana/

Polling Data (11/29/10) - Half of Canadians Support the Legalization of Marijuana

Do you support or oppose the legalization of each of the following drugs?

Marijuana Support = 50% Oppose = 44%

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/38770/canadian_majority_would_legalize_marijuana1/

Polling Data (04/18/10) - Canadian Majority Would Legalize Marijuana

Do you support or oppose the legalization of each of the following drugs? – "Strongly support" and "Moderately support" listed

Marijuana Apr. 2010 = 53% 1-May-08 = 53%

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/43034/majority-of-canadians-would-legalize-marijuana-but-not-other-drugs/

:angry: 2)The second thing in this video is that for some reason he starts talking about his children and how they getting to the age where they will come into contact with drug use.

a) What does this have to do with legalizing it for adults and taxed like alcohol? Off topic

asshole!!!

:angry: 3)He starts rambling on about his drug free life and this is what he what’s to encourage in his children and everyone’s children.

a) Still off topic, and a clear example of his conservative moral engineering agenda.

:angry: 4)He wants people to understand what he is talking about in reference to the drug trade. He starts going on about how when you buy marijuana your not buying from your neighbors, you are buying from international cartels that are involved in unimaginable violence and intimidation and social catastrophe all over the world. He wants people to really understand the kind of criminal net works that they are supporting, and the damage they do

a) We are talking about marijuana, where does he think this stuff is grown ( they don’t call it BC Bud for nothing) If you legalized marijuana you would shut down any black market, gang side of this product.

Therefore making things safer for all. All you have to do is look at the Prohibition laws that

created Al Capone who led a Prohibition-era crime syndicate. Legalize alcohol and these

guys move on to other things.

:angry: 5) He then goes on to say yaa I know if you legalized it the government would get the money

through taxes. But the reason drugs are illegal is because they are bad, and even if these thing

were legalized he can predict with a lot of confidence that these would never be respectable

businesses run by respectable people.Because of the very nature of the dependancy they create

the damage they create the social upheaval and catastrophe they create.

a) What is he going on about? The Government allows businesses the selling of alcohol and tobacco,and allow casino’s to operate. Other than the government these are somewhat respectable businesses run by respectable people.

The truth of the matter is Canada is not really a sovereign country. When it comes to drug laws, and to many other thing to list here Canada is America’s bitch.

Edited August 3, 2011 by CitizenX

[CitizenX]

David Bratzer, an active Victoria B.C. contstable and member of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Here is some more lectures if you are interested

Marijuana Economics Panel Commonwealth Club (FLORAtv)

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Why Legalize Drugs?

We believe that drug prohibition is the true cause of much of the social and personal damage that has historically been attributed to drug use. It is prohibition that makes marijuana worth more than gold, and heroin worth more than uranium – while giving criminals a monopoly over their supply. Driven by the huge profits from this monopoly, criminal gangs bribe and kill each other, law enforcers, and children. Their trade is unregulated and they are, therefore, beyond our control.

History has shown that drug prohibition reduces neither use nor abuse. After a rapist is arrested, there are fewer rapes. After a drug dealer is arrested, however, neither the supply nor the demand for drugs is seriously changed. The arrest merely creates a job opening for an endless stream of drug entrepreneurs who will take huge risks for the sake of the enormous profits created by prohibition. Prohibition costs taxpayers tens of billions of dollars every year, yet 40 years and some 40 million arrests later, drugs are cheaper, more potent and far more widely used than at the beginning of this futile crusade.

We believe that by eliminating prohibition of all drugs for adults and establishing appropriate regulation and standards for distribution and use, law enforcement could focus more on crimes of violence, such as rape, aggravated assault, child abuse and murder, making our communities much safer. We believe that sending parents to prison for non-violent personal drug use destroys families. We believe that in a regulated and controlled environment, drugs will be safer for adult use and less accessible to our children. And we believe that by placing drug abuse in the hands of medical professionals instead of the criminal justice system, we will reduce rates of addiction and overdose deaths.

Edited August 3, 2011 by CitizenX

[bush_cheney2004]

The truth of the matter is Canada is not really a sovereign country. When it comes to drug laws, and to many other thing to list here Canada is America’s bitch.

Excuse me, but as is my custom, let the record show that Canada banned cannabis (1923 Opium and Drug Act) many years before the United States feds (1937). Not bad for a "bitch".

[eyeball]

Yes Canada prohibited pot before the US so who's the real bitch here?

OTOH Canada started questioning that wisdom long before the US.

I don't think there's been anything quite like the LeDain Commission at the US Federal level yet has there? It's probably fair to say Canada's fear of the US reaction to LeDain's recommendations should they ever come to pass have kept them on the shelf ever since they were made. Why is it taking the US so much longer to follow Canada's lead now?

Edited August 5, 2011 by eyeball

[Sir Bandelot]

Yes Canada prohibited pot before the US so who's the real bitch here?

OTOH Canada started questioning that wisdom long before the US.

Emily Murphy played an influential role in her position as first woman Magistrate, with the publishing of her book "The Black Candle". The book argues that chinese and blacks are a threat to white british society in Canada and throughout the empire, and that they are prone to use drugs and spread drug use into white society.

The perspective contained in her book, the Black Candle (1922), is considered the most consequential because it played a role in creating a widespread “war on drugs mentality” leading to legislation that “defined addiction as a law enforcement problem.” Using extensive anecdotes and “expert” opinion, the Black Candle depicts an alarming picture of drug abuse in Canada, detailing Murphy’s understanding of the use and effects of opium, cocaine, and pharmaceuticals, as well as a “new menace,” “marihuana.”

Race permeates the Black Candle, and is intricately entwined with the drug trade and addiction in Murphy’s analysis. She refers to the Chinese man as a “visitor” in this country, and that “it might be wise to put him out” if it turns out that this visitor carries “poisoned lollipops in his pocket and feeds them to our children.” Drug addiction is “a scourge so dreadful in its effects that it threatens the very foundations of civilization,” and which laws therefore need to target for eradication.

She does not depart from the view that “races” were discrete, biologically determined categories, naturally ranked in a hierarchy. In this scheme, the white race was facing degradation through miscegenation, while the more prolific “black and yellow races may yet obtain the ascendancy” and thus threatened to “wrest the leadership of the world from the British.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Murphy#Drugs_and_Race

Doesn't that view sound so familiar to what we have going on today.

[thepatrickblack]

Drug induced Paranoia strikes again!

This drug is no more debilitating than alcohol and no less healthy than cigarettes. It's also not chemically addictive. I keep hearing about countries that are decriminalizing it and it hasn't changed their society much.