WIP Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 Goldman Sachs is going to fire employees in the U.S. and some other countries so that it can hire 1,000 in Singapore, where it's cheaper. Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-is-firing-employees-in-the-us-so-it-can-hire-1000-in-singapore-2011-6#ixzz1R20cQIHN Yes, first they told us it was only those working in more labour-intensive industries like textiles who had to worry about losing their jobs to outsourcing...then they came for the manufacturing line workers...then they came for the skilled tradesmen...then white caller jobs, starting with telephone sales and product service personnel lost their jobs to call centers in Mumbai...then the computer programmers and software designers who thought they had the new, innovative skills to make them secure in the age of globalization...goodbye! unless you can work in our new office in India! Well, who's going to shed any tears for these hotshot, big money bankers and investment analysts who made a killing swimming in the proverbial "sea of smiling sharks?" Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Oleg Bach Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 Goldman Sachs is going to fire employees in the U.S. and some other countries so that it can hire 1,000 in Singapore, where it's cheaper. Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-is-firing-employees-in-the-us-so-it-can-hire-1000-in-singapore-2011-6#ixzz1R20cQIHN Yes, first they told us it was only those working in more labour-intensive industries like textiles who had to worry about losing their jobs to outsourcing...then they came for the manufacturing line workers...then they came for the skilled tradesmen...then white caller jobs, starting with telephone sales and product service personnel lost their jobs to call centers in Mumbai...then the computer programmers and software designers who thought they had the new, innovative skills to make them secure in the age of globalization...goodbye! unless you can work in our new office in India! Well, who's going to shed any tears for these hotshot, big money bankers and investment analysts who made a killing swimming in the proverbial "sea of smiling sharks?" I hate this kind of corporate national disloyalty. These companies who all originated within a nation - are thankless in the fact that it was their home nation that created them - supported them and gave them their original wealth and power. It reminds me of a medical student who declares his love for a coctail wait person - moves in with her - sends her to work...promises marrage - then dumps her when he graduates - This move by Goldman Sachs is the height of usery. Our and the Americans unemployment problems are directly linked to this kind of corporate behaviour ....Is GS wants cheap labour - there should be a law that insists that top executives should not be allowed the comfort and safety of a home base...they should all be shipped to Sinapour or India - why are we loyal to them when they are NOT loyal to us...The populace and the population are suckers. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 This thread is of utmost importance _ My postion is one of protectionism. Some how there is a line of thought that national protectionism brings about poverty - well it would in a nation with no real resourses - or self sustainablity - but that is not the case with Canada and the U S A. Companies that insult their founding nation with such actions are simply sick with greed. Continued growth and expansion with no limit is not a good buisness plan. Monsters are created when the bottom line supercedes civilized behaviour. IF a company profits 3 billion dollars a year...IS it a real necessity to profit 6 billion a year? How much wealth do they need - at this point so much wealth is being accumulated by such companies that the people in control could not spend their personals fortunes in ten life times...where is the sense and why is this insanity rewarded and looked up too? I don't get it. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 Who is the indiviual who comes up with such cruel and cold ideas - to fire 1000 of their own country men causing them heart ache and hardship? Then hiring a bunch of people in some far off land for minimal renumeration? People that they do not know - who are not part of their national family - people who dispise America - Have we not given to much power to our enemy through our own weakness called greed? Look at what happened in Pakistan - or Saudi Arabi - we pay and profit in the selling of daggers that will later be plunged into our own hearts......Goldman Sacks must be run by robots...fools who take nothing into consideration other than immediate gain and instant gratification - not a very mature or wise way of doing buisness - They have the mentlity of common crack addicts and rank socially on the same level. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 Goldman Sachs is going to fire employees in the U.S. and some other countries so that it can hire 1,000 in Singapore, where it's cheaper. Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-is-firing-employees-in-the-us-so-it-can-hire-1000-in-singapore-2011-6#ixzz1R20cQIHN Yes, first they told us it was only those working in more labour-intensive industries like textiles who had to worry about losing their jobs to outsourcing...then they came for the manufacturing line workers...then they came for the skilled tradesmen...then white caller jobs, starting with telephone sales and product service personnel lost their jobs to call centers in Mumbai...then the computer programmers and software designers who thought they had the new, innovative skills to make them secure in the age of globalization...goodbye! unless you can work in our new office in India! Well, who's going to shed any tears for these hotshot, big money bankers and investment analysts who made a killing swimming in the proverbial "sea of smiling sharks?" Executive: "Albert, I have a great idea...there are some bean counters in India who will work for 20 bucks a day...our guys are making 200 bucks a day....why don't we get rid of our own and hire the people in India?" ALBERT: "What about our guys? What will happen to them?" EXECUTIVE: "F**k em". Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 ...then white caller jobs, starting with telephone sales and product service personnel lost their jobs to call centers in Mumbai...then the computer programmers and software designers who thought they had the new.... Interesting....where was the outrage when such jobs were exported to Canada from the United States....and still are? Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Â
GostHacked Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 Interesting....where was the outrage when such jobs were exported to Canada from the United States....and still are? Not sure, why did you not get outraged when that happened? Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com
WIP Posted July 3, 2011 Author Report Posted July 3, 2011 Who is the indiviual who comes up with such cruel and cold ideas - to fire 1000 of their own country men causing them heart ache and hardship? Then hiring a bunch of people in some far off land for minimal renumeration? Except that in the case of this particular 1000 employees, they were part of the active decision-making process that outsourced the jobs of many who were lower on the income scale, and they likely considered themselves to important to have their jobs outsourced. I found much the same thing 10 or so years ago when all of the computer experts thought their skills meant that their jobs and their incomes were impervious to whatever else was going on in the economy. And back when the first Free Trade Agreement was being argued out in Parliament, a lot of manufacturing employees thought it was okay, because it was only menial jobs in textile manufacturing that would be lost. Globalization has created a race to the bottom because the international organizations and free trade agreements ruled out any effective labour, health and environment restrictions on imports. Today we are importing products that are being produced using dirty manufacturing processes that failed air, water and other environmental standards here. So we outsourced the production and imported the pollution through climate change. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
WIP Posted July 3, 2011 Author Report Posted July 3, 2011 Interesting....where was the outrage when such jobs were exported to Canada from the United States....and still are? The outrage should have come from your side of the border, so were you fighting to save the jobs of auto workers while production was being sent to our side to take advantage of our then lower dollar? Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 The outrage should have come from your side of the border, so were you fighting to save the jobs of auto workers while production was being sent to our side to take advantage of our then lower dollar? Nope....I was just wondering why exporting American jobs to Canada is/was not considered a "race to the bottom". What makes Canada better than Mexico in that regard (NAFTA)? Or any other nation with cheaper labor? Quote Economics trumps Virtue. Â
August1991 Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 Yes, first they told us it was only those working in more labour-intensive industries like textiles who had to worry about losing their jobs to outsourcing...then they came for the manufacturing line workers...then they came for the skilled tradesmen...then white caller jobs, starting with telephone sales and product service personnel lost their jobs to call centers in Mumbai...then the computer programmers and software designers who thought they had the new, innovative skills to make them secure in the age of globalization...goodbye! unless you can work in our new office in India!India? Think of all those jobs that we've lost to computers! Typists and typewriter manufacturers have all been "outsourced". Or as Obama noted, think of all the bank tellers who lost their jobs to ATMs.The way things are going, computers or people in India will do everything and we won't have to work at all. ---- WIP, I suppose that in addition to forbidding trade with India, you would favour destroying all computers so that we could return to a world of secretaries and bank tellers. Quote
Bonam Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) India? Think of all those jobs that we've lost to computers! Typists and typewriter manufacturers have all been "outsourced". Or as Obama noted, think of all the bank tellers who lost their jobs to ATMs. The way things are going, computers or people in India will do everything and we won't have to work at all. ---- WIP, I suppose that in addition to forbidding trade with India, you would favour destroying all computers so that we could return to a world of secretaries and bank tellers. The contradiction is indeed poignant. WIP believes in a techno-utopia where we are all freed from having to work by automated technologies that provide us everything we need. He calls this the "resource economy". Somehow he forgets that that involves pretty much everyone "losing their jobs". Edited July 3, 2011 by Bonam Quote
WIP Posted July 3, 2011 Author Report Posted July 3, 2011 India? Think of all those jobs that we've lost to computers! Typists and typewriter manufacturers have all been "outsourced". Or as Obama noted, think of all the bank tellers who lost their jobs to ATMs. The way things are going, computers or people in India will do everything and we won't have to work at all. Yeah, what a gutless toady Obama turned out to be! But, that falls in the pattern of every other center-left politician who claimed that they would stop Free Trade or protect workers from losing jobs to outsourcing. No one begrudges new technologies, and free trade agreements would not have had the destructive impact on manufacturing if the new locations allowed collective bargaining, and had legislation protecting environment and employees health....but the corporatists created this structure to bring back the good old days that Charles Dickens wrote about. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
bloodyminded Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) WIP, I suppose that in addition to forbidding trade with India, you would favour destroying all computers so that we could return to a world of secretaries and bank tellers. This is the second time in a row today that someone has wilfully misread WIP's opinion; fortunately, the intrepid bloodyminded is here to set everyone straight. WIP does not suggest "forbidding trade with India." Just as "anti-globalization" activists are not "anti-globalization" at all; the critique is on the methods and parameters, not of trade itself. August, can I take it from your some of your posts that you "oppose" Canada? After all (and like everyone else) you've had criticisms of it in one way or another. Edited July 3, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Jack Weber Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 Yeah, what a gutless toady Obama turned out to be! But, that falls in the pattern of every other center-left politician who claimed that they would stop Free Trade or protect workers from losing jobs to outsourcing. No one begrudges new technologies, and free trade agreements would not have had the destructive impact on manufacturing if the new locations allowed collective bargaining, and had legislation protecting environment and employees health....but the corporatists created this structure to bring back the good old days that Charles Dickens wrote about. You got that right... And these Goldman Sachs employees are being free marketeered in the system they doubtlessly champion (ed)... I guess they just are'nt "competative" or "productive" enough? These global free marketeers will not happy until they have made what's left of the middle class disappear and return things to a sort of European mercantilism but on a global scale.. It's as if they are trying to rebalance things (at least in their minds) they feel were unfairly lost from the post war generation...As if they are getting back at the unworthy ingrates whoi demanded a better economic standing... The sad thing is that these greedy people never learn from history...This very attitude brought on some very horrible ideas to counterbalance the harshness these global mercantilists advocate for... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
August1991 Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) This is the second time in a row today that someone has wilfully misread WIP's opinion; fortunately, the intrepid bloodyminded is here to set everyone straight. WIP does not suggest "forbidding trade with India." Just as "anti-globalization" activists are not "anti-globalization" at all; the critique is on the methods and parameters, not of trade itself. August, can I take it from your some of your posts that you "oppose" Canada? After all (and like everyone else) you've had criticisms of it in one way or another. Mis read WIP's opinion? "Methods and parameters"?It seems simple to me: is it good or bad that many bank tellers lost their jobs to ATMs? And whether someone loses their job to a computer or to someone in India, theys till lose their job. Heck, think of how many jobs have been lost in Canada over the past century or two! Horse traders, candle-makers, television tube manufacturing, vinyl discs. Canadians once worked in all these fields. Now, the jobs are gone. WIP calls it a race to the bottom when we compete with low wage countries like India. Well WIP (and BM), computers are even cheaper! They work 24/7 for a few pennies in electricity. Oh the irony. You guys use computers to post messages that implicitly are anti-technology! ---- Read this text, and then get back to me. Edited July 3, 2011 by August1991 Quote
Jack Weber Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) Mis read WIP's opinion? "Methods and parameters"? It seems simple to me: is it good or bad that many bank tellers lost their jobs to ATMs? And whether someone loses their job to a computer or to someone in India, theys till lose their job. Heck, think of how many jobs have been lost in Canada over the past century or two! Horse traders, candle-makers, television tube manufacturing, vinyl discs. Canadians once worked in all these fields. Now, the jobs are gone. WIP calls it a race to the bottom when we compete with low wage countries like India. Well WIP (and BM), computers are even cheaper! They work 24/7 for a few pennies in electricity. Oh the irony. You guys use computers to post messages that implicitly are anti-technology! ---- Read this text, and then get back to me. Simple question.... If it's not a race to the bottom for most people... How areyou going to keep our standard of living through massive job loss and the resulting re-employment that never seems to regain the original lost wage compensation? Edited July 3, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bloodyminded Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 Mis read WIP's opinion? "Methods and parameters"? It seems simple to me: is it good or bad that many bank tellers lost their jobs to ATMs? And whether someone loses their job to a computer or to someone in India, theys till lose their job. Heck, think of how many jobs have been lost in Canada over the past century or two! Horse traders, candle-makers, television tube manufacturing, vinyl discs. Canadians once worked in all these fields. Now, the jobs are gone. WIP calls it a race to the bottom when we compete with low wage countries like India. Well WIP (and BM), computers are even cheaper! They work 24/7 for a few pennies in electricity. Oh the irony. You guys use computers to post messages that implicitly are anti-technology! ---- Read this text, and then get back to me. Yes, I get all this, but as usual you decline to respond to anything I write, even as you ostensibly are debating me about it. We've already got one Rue here. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
cybercoma Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 Pretty soon there will be no one left to buy their products and services in North America. Then these companies will realize that Ford had the right idea. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson
Shady Posted July 3, 2011 Report Posted July 3, 2011 What's the problem here? A private company has chosen its most efficient plan to continue providing its services, using its own money and capital. Unless we want a government with the power to dictate to businesses who they can hire, and what they can do with their private property, it's non of their business. It's a similar type of thing when German and Japanese car companies invested in manufacturing plants in several southern and mid-western states in the United States over the last several years. Actions have consequences. Perhaps the state of New York is to blame for it's anti-business and highly punative tax system. This is a great illustration of the complete folly and naivete of the "soak the rich" mentality. This is reminiscent of the new internet taxes recently passed by Democrats in California. It immediately led to Amazon ending it's affiliation with 25,000 small business websites that conducted various types of business through Amazon. All I have to say regarding the Goldman Sachs situation, and the Amazon situation is this. Heckuva job lefties! Someday you'll understand how an economy works. Probably after you've already bankrupted every municipality, province or state, and nation you get your hands on first. Oh, and it also reminds me of the Clinton-era luxury tax imposed on highend sail boats and yachts back in the early 90s. It was of a similar "soak the rich" mindset. And what was the result of this wonderful utopia fairness? A large drop in the purchasing of these types of watercraft. And the eventual layoff of hundreds of manufacturing jobs. However, at least Clinton remedied the situation, and ended the ridiculous tax. But it was just another adventure in the 'heckuva job lefties' economic philosophy. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 4, 2011 Report Posted July 4, 2011 What's the problem here? Pretty soon there will be no one left to buy their products and services in North America. I find it odd that you would blame lefties for their policies on this because traditionally it was righties that would legislate protectionist policies, protecting and supporting domestic business. Now, it seems the right lauds corporatism, even if it's at the expense of domestic interests. Quote "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." --Thomas Jefferson
Shady Posted July 4, 2011 Report Posted July 4, 2011 I find it odd that you would blame lefties for their policies on this because traditionally it was righties that would legislate protectionist policies, protecting and supporting domestic business. Now, it seems the right lauds corporatism, even if it's at the expense of domestic interests. I don't care which party pursues failed protectionist regulation and policy. But it looks like in this case, Goldman is cutting jobs in America, as well as other countires. But America will be the hardest hit. Why? Because of new a regulatory and especially tax burden proposed by the Obama Administration. Obama's the one pushing jobs overseas. This is the latest example. He's alread cost America thousands of unionized high paying oil and natural gas jobs as a result of his ridiculous EPA and drilling moratorium. While at the same time he gives $2 billion dollars to Brazil for them to explore the same resources he forbids in America. Heckuva job lefties. The U.S. is going to lend billions of dollars to Brazil's state-owned oil company, Petrobras, to finance exploration of the huge offshore discovery in Brazil's Tupi oil field in the Santos Basin near Rio de Janeiro. Brazil's planning minister confirmed.Link That's $2 billion invested there instead of in America, where it would be producing energy for Americans, and producing jobs for Americans. Heckuva job! This guy's a complete moron. Get him the F out of office as soon as possible. I've had enough of the retard-in-chief. Quote
dre Posted July 4, 2011 Report Posted July 4, 2011 Obama's the one pushing jobs overseas. Retarded. Offshoring has been increasing fast for almost 30 years. Even though tax rates have substancially dropped over the that period. The bottom line is that the savings in labor are so huge that the those jobs would still be leaving even if the tax rate was cut to zero. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
August1991 Posted July 4, 2011 Report Posted July 4, 2011 (edited) Yes, I get all this, but as usual you decline to respond to anything I write, even as you ostensibly are debating me about it.Do you really "get" all this?The OP refers to Goldman-Sachs laying off 1000 employees in the US and hiring that number in Singapore. WIP commented: Yes, first they told us it was only those working in more labour-intensive industries like textiles who had to worry about losing their jobs to outsourcing...then they came for the manufacturing line workers...then they came for the skilled tradesmen...then white caller jobs, starting with telephone sales and product service personnel lost their jobs to call centers in Mumbai...then the computer programmers and software designers who thought they had the new, innovative skills to make them secure in the age of globalization...goodbye! unless you can work in our new office in India!I then queried whether it makes any difference if one loses a job to a computer (eg. bank tellers and ATMs) or someone in India (or Singapore).BM, you then posted: WIP does not suggest "forbidding trade with India." Just as "anti-globalization" activists are not "anti-globalization" at all; the critique is on the methods and parameters, not of trade itself. Well, what do you mean by "methods and parameters"? Does it matter if the computer inside the ATM runs on Linux or Windows? ---- The simple fact of the matter is that to increase our standard of living, we must do more with less. When someone figures out a way to accomplish the job of three people with only two, one person loses a job. This has been going on for a long, long time. Even before Bush Jnr and Obama! When the first person discovered how to start a fire, then the fire-keeper lost his job. You talk of trade, BM. When you choose to eat a Big Mac, do you think of the Burger King employees who will lose their jobs because of your choice? Simple question....If it's not a race to the bottom for most people... How areyou going to keep our standard of living through massive job loss and the resulting re-employment that never seems to regain the original lost wage compensation? Jack, you have it precisely backwards. Our wages will rise when we offshore jobs/transfer tasks to computers.If you don't believe me, would you like to return to a 19th century world where people travelled by horse, imports from China were rare and candles provided light when it wasn't sunny? What wages would you earn in such a world? Edited July 4, 2011 by August1991 Quote
Oleg Bach Posted July 4, 2011 Report Posted July 4, 2011 Except that in the case of this particular 1000 employees, they were part of the active decision-making process that outsourced the jobs of many who were lower on the income scale, and they likely considered themselves to important to have their jobs outsourced. I found much the same thing 10 or so years ago when all of the computer experts thought their skills meant that their jobs and their incomes were impervious to whatever else was going on in the economy. And back when the first Free Trade Agreement was being argued out in Parliament, a lot of manufacturing employees thought it was okay, because it was only menial jobs in textile manufacturing that would be lost. Globalization has created a race to the bottom because the international organizations and free trade agreements ruled out any effective labour, health and environment restrictions on imports. Today we are importing products that are being produced using dirty manufacturing processes that failed air, water and other environmental standards here. So we outsourced the production and imported the pollution through climate change. "Globalization has created a race to the bottom" - well said. It used to be we would have a race to the top! There is nothing that can be considered a "menial job" - to job is menial. To take meniality into consideration when exporting domestic jobs abroad smacks of loathing and contempt for people considered by the super high earners as LOW CLASS - These decisions made by our elite are based in a class system. It is contempt and thanklessness to the people and the children of the people who built up wealth for the rich by doing "menial" work. This kind of reminds me of Mexico - when the Mexican elite came to the conclution that they were rich enough and they did not need their slaves any longer - that to feed them would cut into future profits...They made arrangements with their American counter part elite...and let 30 million un- wanted Mexicans to flood across the boarder into America....This dumping of human resourses is calculated and cruel. If one is to have servants - you are duty bound to take care of them and their children. This is true class..........our corporations are rich - but have no class - I suppose it is true when it is said that money does not buy class or real respect! Quote
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